The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Meanwhile the CSA's General Secretary said:

https://www.tsn.ca/westhead-interim-general-secretary-jason-devos-paints-grim-picture-of-canada-soccer-s-finances-1.1977583

... I’ve told CSB that we are in this together,” deVos said. “I know how important it is to have professional leagues for men and women in this country, but that cannot come at the expense of our men’s and women’s national team. Our youth boys’ and girls’ national teams need to develop the best players in Canada who go on and succeed at the international level because that success is going to drive the game forward.” ...

Some of you guys need to change the record. It's a top CSA officeholder that is being quoted by Rick Westhead now where the CSB deal is concerned.

So, you really had to use this quote twice in 3 pages, and, after another poster just posts the exact same quote (now I realize it "could" have been a same time post.)?

So why didn't you quote the part of Westhead's article that says he has had discussions with the players (men and women) about not taking so much of the prize money?  All part of the same issue, no?

The point being, there are a number of issues affecting the CSA's financial situation not limited to the CSB deal limiting commercial revenue, CSA incompetence, players demanding a "fair" share of prize money, pay equity with women, and the complete bungling of two would be profitable friendlies last year by the CSA (Iran) and the players (Panama). DeVos himself hints at all of these, but as a former player, coach and in his current position of dealing with the players, is not going to throw them under the bus.  He is also (smartly?) using Westhead to negotiate with the CSB.

[SF]

2 hours ago, red card said:

Commercial revenues didn't grow YoY in part because fall in gate revenue. Only 2 WCQs last year vs 5 in 2021 with 100k more attending. Canada women played 1 more match in 2022 but given the low ticket prices and one match held at smallish Starlight, it won't deliver YoY revenue uptick. 

Hosting Mexico WCQ in 2021 would have boosted CSB's media revenue but Noonan has said this parlayed into a bonus payment for Canada Soccer. FIFA & Concacaf grant revenues grew YoY by about $14 million. 2022 was the second biggest revenue generating year in Canada Soccer's history. Only eclisped by 2015 when Canada hosted WWC.

Likewise, 2022 was the second biggest expense year after 2015. But it was the year most spend on the national teams at $33.5 million and doubled YoY. Staging/marketing/communications also doubled YoY and was the highest ever at $8 million.

The women did have a busy year with WC/Olympic qualifying tourney, 2 Celebration tour matches and u17 & u20 qualifying/WC. None of these generate enough revenue to offset expenses.

Paying off Iran/Panama/BC Place with no revenue was not helpful. Having friends/family Qatar package and Canada House in Qatar was nice to do but not in the interest of managing expenses to revenue.

A number of people like Molinaro thinks it is a messaging ploy by DeVos given the men start Gold Cup tomorrow and the women are set to go the Gold Coast this week.

Equal pay appears to be manageable and possibly even allocating more than 50% of the prize monies to the players. But equal conditions aren't sustainable given the lack of revenue generating opportunities in the women's game. World Cup prize money are only set to be equal in 2027.

 

 

 

 

Really good summary.

There are two things for sure - one, it is really hard to know all the details unless you can look under the proverbial hood.  The financial statements show some information, but do not show underlying detail and do not show prospective data. 

Two, details aside, it’s pretty clear the CSA is guilty of gross mismanagement. 
 

Sad. Really, really sad. 

[Shway]

I stopped caring and following this story. 
What was the end result of the Heritage Committee tribunal? They made matters worse, but what did they solve?

[cornerkick]

well, if they do seek bankruptcy or creditor protection (not sure what the difference is, but the latter term seems to be used more in Canada), there would be trustees appointed to oversee the "restructure".  if a serious house cleaning is needed, the trustees would have authority to do exactly that

[Ottawafan]

Oh look at that the CSA/CSB flag bearers came back to defend their hill again. 

[grigorio]

5 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Oh look at that the CSA/CSB flag bearers came back to defend their hill again. 

[Ottawafan]

2 minutes ago, grigorio said:

Except I’m not defending a poor deal or a governing body that is so incompetent that are on the verge of BK. 

[Shway]

5 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Except I’m not defending a poor deal or a governing body that is so incompetent that are on the verge of BK. 

The CSA is getting a Burger King deal?
Or they are just eating it?

 

[king1010]

So about that talk of Bankruptcy.. Devos walks that back to Globe and Mail this evening. 
 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canada-soccers-general-secretary-denies-bankruptcy-considerations/

[Shway]

7 minutes ago, king1010 said:

So about that talk of Bankruptcy.. Devos walks that back to Globe and Mail this evening. 
 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canada-soccers-general-secretary-denies-bankruptcy-considerations/

…and then some wonder why Dick Head gets the criticism he does. 

If that article he wrote is “unequivocally” wrong and made up, something needs to be done. 

[CanSoccfan11]

This is getting silly.   Simply put everyone wants too big a slice of the pie and because of that no one is getting what they want and the programs as a whole are suffering.  

I get that there is no trust but if this keeps going on everyone is going to lose.

[Gian-Luca]

14 minutes ago, king1010 said:

So about that talk of Bankruptcy.. Devos walks that back to Globe and Mail this evening. 
 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canada-soccers-general-secretary-denies-bankruptcy-considerations/

Not a shock, I had felt that he was too open with his words in the Westhead piece. Some lessons learned hopefully. 

[Shway]

{quote}I think everyone expected coming off a World Cup that it was going to be all sunshine and rainbows, that there was going to be finances to take the team to the next level,” he said. “And it’s not. So, it’s a challenge. That’s a leadership challenge for the organization. We have to find solutions – and find them quick.”{/quote}

The issue is with the amount the players took out of that sum, when we are not in a position to give that. Too much comparing to the big brothers of the USA, when we need to compare ourselves to the likes of Jamaica or Costa Rica who somehow have more money to work with then us.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Shway

[Bison44]

Poor DeVos, he tried to be open and transparent and 3 hrs later he is getting a new asshole torn for him.  

[SF]

This has gone from a simple SOP clusterf**k to farcical clustef**k.

Honestly, this is insane. 

Soccer in Canada is joke.

[Bison44]

11 hours ago, RS said:

How many weirdos on here are going to dismiss this article outright simply because of who wrote it?

The globe and mail apparently.  

[sandman]

How common is it to sell the commercial rights for a national team program to a for profit enterprise?

 

[frmr]

Sorry, I'm not getting the confusion here. In the original article, the quote from de Vos clearly states that the bankruptcy discussion is for his own knowledge and due diligence, not because it's an option they're currently considering. I don't see the point of the second article, other than maybe a crash course in understanding the difference between matters of record and editorialized comments. The fact that they are even having to look at bankruptcy as a matter of due diligence tells us the only important and relevant piece of information is something that we already know: Canada Soccer is a joke and has been for a long time.

It sucks, but it's the truth, and all the polarized squabbling about the details of the how and why doesn't change that core truth.

[narduch]

Just now, sandman said:

How common is it to sell the commercial rights for a national team program to a for profit enterprise?

 

I think its pretty common.

The CSA was already doing this with IMG before the CSB deal. Just nobody cared about it before. Basically if you want to keep this stuff in house you would need to hire experienced staff to take care of it.

Even FIFA used to sell all their rights off to Adidas at one point. 

[RS]

40 minutes ago, frmr said:

Sorry, I'm not getting the confusion here. In the original article, the quote from de Vos clearly states that the bankruptcy discussion is for his own knowledge and due diligence, not because it's an option they're currently considering. I don't see the point of the second article, other than maybe a crash course in understanding the difference between matters of record and editorialized comments. The fact that they are even having to look at bankruptcy as a matter of due diligence tells us the only important and relevant piece of information is something that we already know: Canada Soccer is a joke and has been for a long time.

It sucks, but it's the truth, and all the polarized squabbling about the details of the how and why doesn't change that core truth.

This is a point that’s too easily lost on some here. 

I get that Westhead’s style is abrasive, but the amount of ire he seems to draw is silly.

De Vos was too open in the Westhead article and learned an immediate, hard lesson (as @Gian-Luca noted upthread). He walked some of the comments back in the Globe article, but it’s hardly painting a rosier picture than what was published earlier today.

As for those trying to dunk on me because I labelled some people weirdos (without naming actual names) for their obsession with Westhead, think about why you were offended by that.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Are the 2022 financial statements available? I don't understand how you go bankrupt with no debt. At the end of 2021 they had $3m of AP, some deferred revenue and $14m of net assets. 

[RS]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

…and then some wonder why Dick Head gets the criticism he does. 

If that article he wrote is “unequivocally” wrong and made up, something needs to be done. 

Here’s the De Vos quote from the “Dick Head” article. As @frmr points out, it’s not so dissimilar to what he told the Globe that anything irresponsible was written by RW.

“We are in a real struggle. It’s not imminent, but we need to explore what bankruptcy entails and how it might affect our organization,” said deVos, a former captain of the Canadian men’s national team who was appointed to his executive position in April. “We don’t have enough revenue coming in for the programs that need to be run, and that includes everything from grassroots coach education and referee development to youth national teams and our senior men’s and women’s teams.” 

“…[bankruptcy] has been discussed, but not in the sense of this is a strategy or this is something that we're looking at. It's been discussed more from my own perspective to learn about it. It is absolutely the last option that I want to consider or even think about. But I would be remiss if I didn't do my due diligence on this.”

[Aird25]

8 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Are the 2022 financial statements available? I don't understand how you go bankrupt with no debt. At the end of 2021 they had $3m of AP, some deferred revenue and $14m of net assets. 

They’re not going bankrupt. He’s very poorly laying the groundwork for corporate saviours prior to the women’s World Cup 

[Stoppage Time]

2 hours ago, SF said:

This has gone from a simple SOP clusterf**k to farcical clustef**k.

Honestly, this is insane. 

Soccer in Canada is joke.

No. Soccer administration in Canada is a joke.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Oh look at that the CSA/CSB flag bearers came back to defend their hill again. 

At least now we can see what the CSA's exit strategy could be further down the road. Doubt they'll want to do it before 2026 or it's in any way imminent, but the Rick Westhead article was probably viewed as a useful way to float it out there as a trial balloon.