The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

32 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Then why didn't CSA just keep the sponsorship rights if it was such a sure thing?

You seriously have to ask that? Handing over that sure thing helped entice investors to sign on the dotted line for Victor Montagliani's pet project CanPL, which he was desperate to get launched before heading off to CONCACAF. It's mindboggling that he would have agreed a fixed $3 million even for 2026.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ottawafan]

38 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Actually not at all. They are called in individually window to window. They opt out. They have no guarantee to play. The current compensation package per game is applied to them and they don't negotiate it individually. Even a captain can be left off the team if he's not meritorious. If they don't agree they can ask not to go and others agreeing to the terms will be called in their place. 

You've had the most consistently off based posting on this site we've seen in a while and all your foisting of falsehood is tiresome.

Also not quite sure why you brought this up.  Obviously getting called up, playing time and who the CSA chooses to call up is not a guarantee.  Did someone here allude to this recently?

[RS]

1 hour ago, Ruud said:

That wasn’t even the point I was making about world juniors this time around. It’s the fact that TSN buys an asset like World juniors tournament for a long period of time from IIHF for a given fee . Then monetizes the hell out of it.  Sounds familiar.  Risk.  Reward.  Etc. 

Sorry, I misunderstood your post because of what it was in response to. 

Westhead has been at the forefront of reporting the sexual assault allegations from previous World Juniors tournaments, despite it being a huge moneymaker for TSN.

[RS]

52 minutes ago, Shway said:

This is exactly what some want it to be.
Kind of what all the arguments are about right? CSB needing to spend more of their “own”money? 

So let’s say they both are charities, which one are you picking.

A // governs over 185+ professional paid players, and 500+ semi-pro amateur players. 90% of the players are Canadians.

B // governs sub 55 players who are also paid by their professional clubs, and sub 100 players who are U20 players, majority aren’t paid. 98% are Canadian. 

They both can’t be charities.
Pick one.

No. Neither are charities.

[RS]

52 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's pretty poor he fell silent for months as TSN prepped for the World Cup and he didn't even do an update or follow up article on the men's bonus deal . Which remained unsigned while they played in Qatar. A veritable scandal. He shut up about. Still does. You can't rake the muck, leave it stinking, pretend it isn't there, and not be accused of muckraking. The journalistic integrity isn't there.

But why should that bother certain people here?

He was actually on TSN during the World Cup (and in the lead-up) talking about it on air, but I guess since you never personally saw it that means it didn’t happen.

[Ruud]

18 minutes ago, RS said:

Sorry, I misunderstood your post because of what it was in response to. 

Westhead has been at the forefront of reporting the sexual assault allegations from previous World Juniors tournaments, despite it being a huge moneymaker for TSN.

Not a problem.  Both points are valid.  In fact I made this point a while back to lend credence to his journalistic integrity. World juniors is a TSN asset.  NHL partially so.  

[RS]

3 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Not a problem.  Both points are valid.  In fact I made this point a while back to lend credence to his journalistic integrity. World juniors is a TSN asset.  NHL partially so.  

Westhead's not infallible, no one is, and I've already mentioned that I think he's presented one side of the story more than the other, but he's not the bumbling idiot that some on here paint him as.

(Not directed at you. Just using your comment as a jumping-off point.)

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, h coach said:

To follow up on the logic of some, shouldn't OTP $ the women's "earned" have been split between the men and women, in the interest of gender equity, or is that just a 1 way street?

In this instance, no. The OTP is literally tied to the program that earned it. If you want to argued that the CSA could fund the women's program with the OTP while using other funding for the men, that's a different discussion. But it still doesn't answer the question of what happened to the OTP funding.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Meanwhile corporate money that could have gone to the CWNT for Women's World Cup preparation is heading elsewhere:

 

[Shway]

50 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Meanwhile corporate money that could have gone to the CWNT for Women's World Cup preparation is heading elsewhere:

 

Welp, at least they have found some source of funding for the Women's League!
50% sounds like a large amount for a very well known Canadian company. 
But what that number amount is will be another conversation. 

Canadian Tire was a partner of Hockey Canada so they are most likely re-allocating some of those funds. But they weren't a premier partner like Telus, Nike, Esso, & Tim Hortons who contributed 2M a year. 

One charity sponsor down, 9 more to go!

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You seriously have to ask that? Handing over that sure thing helped entice investors to sign on the dotted line for Victor Montagliani's pet project CanPL, which he was desperate to get launched before heading off to CONCACAF. It's mindboggling that he would have agreed a fixed $3 million even for 2026.

Yes I do.  Bontis is a business professor (I know he wasn't the President at the time, but was on the board).  Although that probably means he has little clue how things work in the real working world, surely he has enough theoretical knowledge as do others that were on the board.

The 3-4 million was 3-4 times what they were getting at the time.  The rest of your post is just conjecture on your part.

Oh wait, now you're going to provide me with more conjecture that Bontis had the agreement signed behind everyone's back, right? 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

What are you even talking about with that last part? Conversation over.

[Ivan]

9 minutes ago, Shway said:

Welp, at least they have found some source of funding for the Women's League!
50% sounds like a large amount for a very well known Canadian company. 
But what that number amount is will be another conversation. 

Canadian Tire was a partner of Hockey Canada so they are most likely re-allocating some of those funds. But they weren't a premier partner like Telus, Nike, Esso, & Tim Hortons who contributed 2M a year. 

One charity sponsor down, 9 more to go!

Good news for the women's league.

It also eliminates this fallacy that ALL sponsorship money has to go to the CSB. Even though Project 8 announced previous partners, the lame claim that all sponsorships go to CSB was still out there.  

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Yes I do.  Bontis is a business professor (I know he wasn't the President at the time, but was on the board).  Although that probably means he has little clue how things work in the real working world, surely he has enough theoretical knowledge as do others that were on the board.

The 3-4 million was 3-4 times what they were getting at the time.  The rest of your post is just conjecture on your part.

Oh wait, now you're going to provide me with more conjecture that Bontis had the agreement signed behind everyone's back, right? 

It's a know fact that the CSA got the best deal available to them on the table. How do I know that? It was the only deal on the table.😉

[Ansem]

Just now, Ivan said:

Good news for the women's league.

It also eliminates this fallacy that ALL sponsorship money has to go to the CSB. Even though Project 8 announced previous partners, the lame claim that all sponsorships go to CSB was still out there.  

The nuance is that CanWNT marketing has to go through CSB but anything outside of that scope can go straight to the Women's league. What will remain a mystery is "how much" is that sponsorship worth. The budgets that Matheson was talking about, they are going to need way more sponsors to make it somewhat viable.

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, RS said:

Westhead's not infallible, no one is, and I've already mentioned that I think he's presented one side of the story more than the other, but he's not the bumbling idiot that some on here paint him as.

(Not directed at you. Just using your comment as a jumping-off point.)

Come on RS, show me where someone said he was a bumbling idiot.  His articles are not as well informed as many of the other regular journos that cover soccer in canada.  He continually cites Fequet (former board member who lost to Bontis) as his source for this stuff, or uses anon sources.  And its all swallowed up by the other outlets and taken as "gospel" when you and I can look at his stories and see a lot of it is a sensational and all digging at a scandal, whether there is one or not. He does a lot of ambulance chasing whereas we have other guys who report rain or shine on soccer and there stuff isnt taken with the same weight as his...because he is some sort of investigative heavy hitter I guess.  And on the other hand, plenty of people seem to just default to the opinion that Victor, Bontis, CSA, CSB are all crooked and they are lying through their teeth.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

19 hours ago, eramosat said:

... Does NWSL ever field Canadian club expansion ideas?  ...

Nick Bontis talked up NWSL expansion a lot at one point:

but things have gone very quiet on that more recently. The expansion fee that is needed to enter the NWSL dwarfs anything that has been rumoured where CanPL is concerned:

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

53 minutes ago, Shway said:

Welp, at least they have found some source of funding for the Women's League!
50% sounds like a large amount for a very well known Canadian company. 
But what that number amount is will be another conversation. 

Canadian Tire was a partner of Hockey Canada so they are most likely re-allocating some of those funds. But they weren't a premier partner like Telus, Nike, Esso, & Tim Hortons who contributed 2M a year. 

One charity sponsor down, 9 more to go!

You are joking I hope. 

[RS]

More conjecture from the ambulance chaser via anonymous sources.

Wait, that’s a letter from an actual CSA sponsor.

 

[Ansem]

GE used the word "sponsorship" - which would go straight to CSB according to what's known about the deal. The only way GE could have money given to the WNT directly would be via "donation"

Or

The CSA increases by $100k the money allocated to the WNT from the money they get from CSB with receipts for GE that they did increase the WNT funding by that amount.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ansem

[Ivan]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

GE used the word "sponsorship" - which would go straight to CSB according to what's known about the deal. The only way GE could have money given to the WNT directly would be via "donation"

In addition, the CSA has said it won't take direct sponsorships to specific programs.  Can you imagine the shitstorm when a large company says "we want to provide $1 million, but only to the Men's World Cup team"? 

[Ivan]

10 minutes ago, RS said:

More conjecture from the ambulance chaser via anonymous sources.

Wait, that’s a letter from an actual CSA sponsor.

 

That's good, finally providing some info rather than one-sided anonymous sources .  Would be nice if he told the whole story though.

[RS]

If the CSA started taking “donations” that circumvented the CSB deal, it wouldn’t be long until CSB sued them.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, RS said:

If the CSA started taking “donations” that circumvented the CSB deal, it wouldn’t be long until CSB sued them.

Didn't the CSA already take private donations to get recent camps going? (I don't remember the specifics)

GE would need to not advertise this but judging at how they are doing this publicly, it's via sponsorship they want to do it and they want people to "know".

[Shway]

100K 😆.....Ahh all these companies are so concerned but could only offer the means for 1 camp.
"This camp is brought you to by GE". 

The players want more than that amount in payment.