The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Bison44]

39 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Zig.

Geez, don't hold it in, lad.  Say what you mean.

This stuff has really got me into a tailspin.  I skipped 2 of the 3 MLS games this weekend (watched Vancouver just beF#CKINg cause!), my sister who knows nothing about soccer is texting me with daily scoops about how CPL is screwing the women, according to some guy called Westman...grrrrrrr.    Then I come here and have to read about our wonderful orthinological friend whine about how he is mistreated and misunderstood.  All his back handed snide comments and disingenuous arguments wouldnt have to be made if they had just listened to him, formed a regional bus league in the GTA with reserve teams included.  Or a second L1O....that would have made all the CSA money woes disappear and all the national team players would be singing kum bi-ah in gender equality blissfulness.   K......RRRISSTTT!!!!! Remind me why I am a CDN soccer fan again? Why is it when things are really looking up on the field they figure thats the time to tear down everything down off the field...I'm so pissed that if and when I can get to WPG to see Valour this summer, and they win I am going to skip my celebritory Tony Romas rib dinner.  

[Cheeta]

Skip Tony Romas!

I was 100% with til then...

[Ruud]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

As for Amy Walsh, take a listen to the Footy prime podcast, she didnt come across as vitriolic as she did in her tweet.  The rest of the panel made the point that Crooks was interm appointment and you cant shit can everyone there.  Plus the pres has to be a existing board member..if I am not mistaken. Its worth a listen, they are smart cookies and I think really do have the best interests of soccer in canada at heart.  

But if we are really getting into who is biased and not, how the hell does Westhead and TSN get a pass? Previously they were getting paid by CSA to air CMNT games, no with CSB/CPL and onesoccer mediapro thats all gone.  You dont think they dont have an axe to grind against CSB and are using this "equality" outrage as a club to beat CPL with???  They dont get these national team games for free anymore and have to pay for any they actually think they can make money with.

WHAT????   TSN PAYS CSA FOR TV RIGHTS THEN MAKES MONEY OFF OF AIRING SAID GAMES???  THEY ARE MAKING A POT OF GOLD OFF THE NATIONAL TEAM???? (I have no evidence but I'll just blindly insinuate they are, theres alot of that going around lately)   OH MY F$CKING HOLY MOBILIO!!!!   You know what..I am sick of TSN siphoning off money from the national team and for no reason in particular, I'll say especially the womens team!!!   WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I dont care if it was a natural legal business transaction..WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I dont need to hear about how respected Westhead is etc, I've read his stuff and a lot of the ambulance chasing regarding to CSA is not exactly well informed like plenty of other journos are.  

Don’t forget world juniors hockey contract from IIHF and hockey Canada. Worth millions to tsn 

[Bison44]

Ahhhhhhh come on, my wife likes some asparagus dish at tonyromas, and my 8 year old just got dragged all over IG field and he doesnt care if Fordyce is too old, he just wants the complimentary bread and bottomless lemonade, so its off to TR's.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, Ruud said:

... Also women are paid if any sponsor pulled in by CSB includes them in an ad etc through direct rights for their image.  ...

Maybe so but the complaint they had recently was that corporate sponsors wanting to only sponsor the CWNT in the run up to the Women's World Cup are unable to do so because of the CSB deal.

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Skip Tony Romas!

I was 100% with til then...

I just assumed it was for a lack of vegetable-based options.

[Shway]

10 hours ago, Bison44 said:

This stuff has really got me into a tailspin.  I skipped 2 of the 3 MLS games this weekend (watched Vancouver just beF#CKINg cause!), my sister who knows nothing about soccer is texting me with daily scoops about how CPL is screwing the women, according to some guy called Westman...grrrrrrr.    Then I come here and have to read about our wonderful orthinological friend whine about how he is mistreated and misunderstood.  All his back handed snide comments and disingenuous arguments wouldnt have to be made if they had just listened to him, formed a regional bus league in the GTA with reserve teams included.  Or a second L1O....that would have made all the CSA money woes disappear and all the national team players would be singing kum bi-ah in gender equality blissfulness.   K......RRRISSTTT!!!!! Remind me why I am a CDN soccer fan again? Why is it when things are really looking up on the field they figure thats the time to tear down everything down off the field...I'm so pissed that if and when I can get to WPG to see Valour this summer, and they win I am going to skip my celebritory Tony Romas rib dinner.  

Holy shit. My sister did the exact same thing. 
"So what is going on with Canada Soccer and not paying these ladies"

I followed up with, did you know Canada just played in their second WC in over 30+ years.
She said "no."

I wanted to tell her to "gfy" but I love her too much.

A lot of warriors out there, and they literally don't know shit all outside is what is being fed to them through the media. 
A lot of social warriors are commentating  and have absolutely no clue and are being sent to the battlefield like how Russia is doing their people. Stupidly. 

[Shway]

But whats the latest fellas....

CSA didn't open their books on Friday? 
Last I heard someone noticed an irregularity between a box being checked and unchecked between the years.

Anymore egregious findings?

[Ottawafan]

12 hours ago, Ruud said:

Except it’s not really an employer but an association under fifa with provinces and territories collecting dues from every kid and running programs which are not only senior teams.  As it should stand, fair should be equal travel allowances appearance fees and promotional fees between men and women 

The players are contractors and can negotiate whatever rate they want.  Revenues are up, sponsorship is up, interest is up and they are now a World Cup squad.  Terms for their services goes up as well.   

[The Real Marc]

10 hours ago, Bison44 said:

 Remind me why I am a CDN soccer fan again? Why is it when things are really looking up on the field they figure thats the time to tear down everything down off the field...

So that everyone can get their slices of the cheese. Because that's what it's all about for the players. The money.

[RS]

12 hours ago, Bison44 said:

But if we are really getting into who is biased and not, how the hell does Westhead and TSN get a pass? Previously they were getting paid by CSA to air CMNT games, no with CSB/CPL and onesoccer mediapro thats all gone.  You dont think they dont have an axe to grind against CSB and are using this "equality" outrage as a club to beat CPL with???  They dont get these national team games for free anymore and have to pay for any they actually think they can make money with.

Where is he getting a pass? You're the 30th* person in here to bring up the possibility that TSN is using this against CSB in some sort of petty vendetta.

Again, I'll bring up the fact that Westhead has been a major thorn in the NHL's side despite TSN being the regional rightsholder for every team in this country. The NHL is a far bigger moneymaker than Canada Soccer can ever hope to be in this country and that doesn't stop him from doing what he does. Same goes for the IIHF/World Juniors as @Ruud points out.

I'm sure no one at TSN is losing sleep over the CSA/CSB getting negative press from their guy, but it's hardly Westhead's motivating factor.

 

* I'm not actually counting

[Ottawafan]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

Where is he getting a pass? You're the 30th* person in here to bring up the possibility that TSN is using this against CSB in some sort of petty vendetta.

Again, I'll bring up the fact that Westhead has been a major thorn in the NHL's side despite TSN being the regional rightsholder for every team in this country. The NHL is a far bigger moneymaker than Canada Soccer can ever hope to be in this country and that doesn't stop him from doing what he does.

I'm sure no one at TSN is losing sleep over the CSA/CSB getting negative press from their guy, but it's hardly Westhead's motivating factor.

 

* I'm not actually counting

He is not a biased reporter looking to grind an axe with CSA/CSB.  It is a narrative of some closed minded individuals looking to deflect the actual message because it goes against their understanding of the situation.  Similar to the fake news people or the media is the problem folks.  

[Ottawafan]

10 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

So that everyone can get their slices of the cheese. Because that's what it's all about for the players. The money.

It is what it's about for everyone.  

[RS]

6 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

He is not a biased reporter looking to grind an axe with CSA/CSB.  It is a narrative of some closed minded individuals looking to deflect the actual message because it goes against their understanding of the situation.  Similar to the fake news people or the media is the problem folks.  

I will say that the criticism that he presents one side of the story more than the other is true, but it’s hardly as bad as some in here are implying.

[RS]

8 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

It is what it's about for everyone.  

No, no, no. Only the players are greedy, entitled money-grubbers. 

No one on the other side wants to make money off Canadian Soccer. That’s why the company is called Canadian Soccer Charity.

[Ruud]

20 minutes ago, RS said:

Where is he getting a pass? You're the 30th* person in here to bring up the possibility that TSN is using this against CSB in some sort of petty vendetta.

Again, I'll bring up the fact that Westhead has been a major thorn in the NHL's side despite TSN being the regional rightsholder for every team in this country. The NHL is a far bigger moneymaker than Canada Soccer can ever hope to be in this country and that doesn't stop him from doing what he does. Same goes for the IIHF/World Juniors as @Ruud points out.

I'm sure no one at TSN is losing sleep over the CSA/CSB getting negative press from their guy, but it's hardly Westhead's motivating factor.

 

* I'm not actually counting

That wasn’t even the point I was making about world juniors this time around. It’s the fact that TSN buys an asset like World juniors tournament for a long period of time from IIHF for a given fee . Then monetizes the hell out of it.  Sounds familiar.  Risk.  Reward.  Etc. 

[Ottawafan]

6 minutes ago, RS said:

No, no, no. Only the players are greedy, entitled money-grubbers. 

No one on the other side wants to make money off Canadian Soccer. That’s why the company is called Canadian Soccer Charity.

Exactly.  This needs to be resolved.  Transparency is needed.  Why the CSA has fought this, and still fights this, is baffling.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 minute ago, Ruud said:

That wasn’t even the point I was making about world juniors this time around. It’s the fact that TSN buys an asset like World juniors tournament for a long period of time from IIHF for a given fee . Then monetizes the hell out of it.  Sounds familiar.  Risk.  Reward.  Etc. 

What risk was there for CSB when they knew in advance that Canada was co-hosting in 2026? If the CMNT hadn't qualified for Qatar, would the players have even realized where most of the sponsorship revenues were going to flow at that point until it was too late to do anything about it?

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, Ruud said:

That wasn’t even the point I was making about world juniors this time around. It’s the fact that TSN buys an asset like World juniors tournament for a long period of time from IIHF for a given fee . Then monetizes the hell out of it.  Sounds familiar.  Risk.  Reward.  Etc. 

More relevant example is probably FIFA and Adidas. 

Hell CSA used to make the same deal with IMG for $1 million per year.

[h coach]

On 3/4/2023 at 5:24 PM, Watchmen said:

I mean, they did get 2 bronze and a gold....

I'll go back to, they should absolutely be getting transparency on what happened to the Own the Podium funding that they earned and the CSA hasn't provided any clarity on at all.

To follow up on the logic of some, shouldn't OTP $ the women's "earned" have been split between the men and women, in the interest of gender equity, or is that just a 1 way street?

[Shway]

15 minutes ago, RS said:

No, no, no. Only the players are greedy, entitled money-grubbers. 

No one on the other side wants to make money off Canadian Soccer. That’s why the company is called Canadian Soccer Charity.

This is exactly what some want it to be.
Kind of what all the arguments are about right? CSB needing to spend more of their “own”money? 

So let’s say they both are charities, which one are you picking.

A // governs over 185+ professional paid players, and 500+ semi-pro amateur players. 90% of the players are Canadians.

B // governs sub 55 players who are also paid by their professional clubs, and sub 100 players who are U20 players, majority aren’t paid. 98% are Canadian. 

They both can’t be charities.
Pick one.

[Unnamed Trialist]

58 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

The players are contractors and can negotiate whatever rate they want.  Revenues are up, sponsorship is up, interest is up and they are now a World Cup squad.  Terms for their services goes up as well.   

Actually not at all. They are called in individually window to window. They opt out. They have no guarantee to play. The current compensation package per game is applied to them and they don't negotiate it individually. Even a captain can be left off the team if he's not meritorious. If they don't agree they can ask not to go and others agreeing to the terms will be called in their place. 

You've had the most consistently off based posting on this site we've seen in a while and all your foisting of falsehood is tiresome.

[Ivan]

26 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What risk was there for CSB when they knew in advance that Canada was co-hosting in 2026? If the CMNT hadn't qualified for Qatar, would the players have even realized where most of the sponsorship revenues were going to flow at that point until it was too late to do anything about it?

Then why didn't CSA just keep the sponsorship rights if it was such a sure thing?

[Unnamed Trialist]

37 minutes ago, RS said:

I will say that the criticism that he presents one side of the story more than the other is true, but it’s hardly as bad as some in here are implying.

It's pretty poor he fell silent for months as TSN prepped for the World Cup and he didn't even do an update or follow up article on the men's bonus deal . Which remained unsigned while they played in Qatar. A veritable scandal. He shut up about. Still does. You can't rake the muck, leave it stinking, pretend it isn't there, and not be accused of muckraking. The journalistic integrity isn't there.

But why should that bother certain people here?

[Ottawafan]

9 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Actually not at all. They are called in individually window to window. They opt out. They have no guarantee to play. The current compensation package per game is applied to them and they don't negotiate it individually. Even a captain can be left off the team if he's not meritorious. If they don't agree they can ask not to go and others agreeing to the terms will be called in their place. 

You've had the most consistently off based posting on this site we've seen in a while and all your foisting of falsehood is tiresome.

Please show me where I said players can individually negotiate their own individual deal with the CSA.   The players as a group can, and it sets the terms for all players going forward.