The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, The Pessimist said:

From Wikipedia:

"Mediaproducción, S.L.U., better known as Mediapro, is a multimedia communications group in Spain founded in April 1994[1] in Barcelona."

Some people on this board keep making references to Mediapro (One Soccer) analysts as being afraid of commenting against the CSB because they are employees of the CSB. That is so wrong. If anything it's the other way around. Mediapro is paying money to the CSB for the rights to show CPL games. One Soccer employees do not work for the CSB.

If TSN bought the rights to show CPL games from the CSB, we would not be saying that TSN employees are now working for the CSB.

It is controlled by Chinese capital now, but Jaume Roures is still running MediaPro. This is important because Media Pro has been more proactive in promoting women's soccer in Spain than any media outlet in Canada, and that when the Spanish women had trouble getting out of a group stage and has no senior medals, and the Canadian women are far more successful. 

It was not about jumping on a bandwagon or responding to a certain public current of opinion, as we see with Canadian media these days.

So that is another issue that is being missed with criticism of One Soccer as being tied to CSB: MediaPro has done far more for the women's game than the outlet Westhead works for. Before Covid, when the league was still fledgling and some teams semi-pro, they paid to show games. Then, when a strike for a bare bones collective agreement loomed, they sweetened the pot with 3 million euros just to help the smaller clubs meet the salary requirements, basically a gift to get the CBA signed and the players back playing.

Atlético Madrid is also a pioneer club in women's football, as reflected in all statements we have seen out of Atlético Ottawa. Only Barça, Levante and Athletic Club of Bilbao are at their level in terms of historical committment and investment. 

The One Soccer/Media Pro + Atlético Ottawa combination is further ahead in women's football than any club in Canada excepting probably Kerfoot and the Whitecaps, a merit marred by the abuse scandals they failed to deal with.

[Ottawafan]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The players don't get to decide who is on the CSA board, they don't dictate, it is voted according to the statutes. 

Who are you to speak in the name of the players, first of all?

Then who the hell are you to think that voice takes precedent over all other voices and stakeholders in Canadian soccer. 

In any case, you were slagging, or at least jumping on a slagging bandwagon, we are not stupid here.

I want the national teams to be supported the way they need to be.  Watching the CSA/CSB attempt to break the players under Bontis the last year, when they should be pushing more resources into the programs and not less, is disheartening.  The players sentiment is firm on this.  They want answers why their support seems to be regressing.  Sorry they voice their concerns against that.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Watching the CSA/CSB attempt to break the players under Bontis the last year

How was CSB attempting to break the players? They issued a communiqué siding with the players on transparency.

They are a private company, that responsibility lies with the CSA who seems in no hurry to explain how the deal works. That's partly why we're getting hearings in Ottawa, they'll have no choice.

Regardless of the outcome, the deal is going nowhere 

[Ottawafan]

13 minutes ago, Ansem said:

How was CSB attempting to break the players? They issued a communiqué siding with the players on transparency.

They are a private company, that responsibility lies with the CSA who seems in no hurry to explain how the deal works. That's partly why we're getting hearings in Ottawa, they'll have no choice.

Regardless of the outcome, the deal is going nowhere 

The comment was more directed to Bontis.  And while they did put out a release talking about the players, they didn't do it last year, around the WC, or before the womens recent games.  Only after the shit storm hit.

In terms of helping out our NT's, they had opportunities on many occasions but chose to remain silent.  I understand it isn't their responsibility to focus on the needs of the NT's, but CSB is a stakeholder in the game and the NT's want to know how it affects them. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ottawafan

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

In terms of helping out our NT's, they had opportunities on many occasions but chose to remain silent.  I understand it isn't their responsibility to focus on the needs of the NT's, but CSB is a stakeholder in the game and the NT's want to know how it affects them. 

The NT lies solely on the CSA. CSB is taking all the financial risks to grow the game in this country so it can benefit both the CSA and NT in the future. They are losing money in their current activities, it's wishful thinking to expect them to take more financial burden to bail out the CSA.

A bail out is unreasonable expectations.

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

The amount of people who seem to rail against the national team is disappointing.  

I honestly don't think there are many (if any?) people on this NT fan site railing against the NT as a whole.  

Some, including me, get their backs up over mistake-riddled, unprofessional comments (like calling the CPL minor league) coming out in their press releases or tweets.

Let's face it, the majority of the issue is about more money in their pockets which has different forms for the men (bonus money) and women (pro league, pay equity with men). I support them in their search for transparency, but do it professionally.  

[Shway]

12 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Let's face it, the majority of the issue is about more money in their pockets which has different forms for the men (bonus money) and women (pro league, pay equity with men). I support them in their search for transparency, but do it professionally.  

I support the transparency of the CSA.

I don’t support the more money plea (men), or the charity case (women).

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

I support the transparency of the CSA.

I don’t support the more money plea (men), or the charity case (women).

They have a right to ask for more. I'm really bothered by the "how" they go about it.

[Shway]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They have a right to ask for more. I'm really bothered by the "how" they go about it.

They have the right to ask to put it towards more friendlies, into grassroots and more youth camps, but they didn’t do that either.

The women want equal pay (more money), while asking for more prep (more money), and want money to be given to fund a women’s charity league. 

A lot of this is about lining the players pockets, and less about the foundation and future players. 

[Ottawafan]

47 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The NT lies solely on the CSA. CSB is taking all the financial risks to grow the game in this country so it can benefit both the CSA and NT in the future. They are losing money in their current activities, it's wishful thinking to expect them to take more financial burden to bail out the CSA.

A bail out is unreasonable expectations.

Fully agree it is not the responsibility CSB to bail out the CSA when it comes to the national programs.  But lets not act like them coming out with a statement to do what they can to help the NT's is some sort of helping hand.  They had almost a year to step up and offer assistance or clarify their role but chose to do so after the public spotlight was put on them in a negative manner.

[Ottawafan]

15 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They have a right to ask for more. I'm really bothered by the "how" they go about it.

I agree players have the right to negotiate the terms of their employment with their employer.  And they can ask for what they feel is fair to them.  

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ottawafan

[SF]

5 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Since we’ve established that conflicts matter, I guess we can all stop taking Rick Westhead seriously. Or do conflicts only work one way?

Dino Rossi has been a key figure in soccer here for decades. Rick Westhead is…?  
 

@SFTo be honest we’d need more facts before truly determining whether Rossi is truly in conflict with CSB. He is not running for presidency as you said, he’s running for a board spot (apparently). There may be a conflict but until that’s determined we should probably not open people who have dedicated their lives to the game to scrutiny. 

Even if he is just on the Board, it is a conflict. It's as clear as day and if this progresses without somehow eliminating the conflict, there will be an avalanche of new and (probably) deserved criticism.

Let's say the CSA concludes that their deal with the CSB is a "bad" one and tries to renegotiate, litigate, etc.  How does as CSB employee on the Board execute on his fiduciary duty to the CSA and, at the same time, serve the best interests of his employer (CSB)?

Not a crazy scenario, I would posit.

[Ottawafan]

40 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I honestly don't think there are many (if any?) people on this NT fan site railing against the NT as a whole.  

Some, including me, get their backs up over mistake-riddled, unprofessional comments (like calling the CPL minor league) coming out in their press releases or tweets.

Let's face it, the majority of the issue is about more money in their pockets which has different forms for the men (bonus money) and women (pro league, pay equity with men). I support them in their search for transparency, but do it professionally.  

I want an organization that will look out for the NT players and their interests.  As you can see the players are not impressed with the CSA.  Fascinating to see fans get all twisted up over the players looking out for themselves.  

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Fully agree it is not the responsibility CSB to bail out the CSA when it comes to the national programs.  But lets not act like them coming out with a statement to do what they can to help the NT's is some sort of helping hand.  They had almost a year to step up and offer assistance or clarify their role but chose to do so after the public spotlight was put on them in a negative manner.

Outside of the contexte of finally coming out of a pandemic, offering to host CanWNT free of charge I assume would mean that all revenues would go straight to the CSA - Tickets, food & booze, merch etc...

Thank again, do you trust the CSA to manage the funds well?

2 years in a pandemic, 3/4 in the pandemic - I think CSB had other priorities like flat out surviving and avoid folding the league

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

I want an organization that will look out for the NT players and their interests.  As you can see the players are not impressed with the CSA.  Fascinating to see fans get all twisted up over the players looking out for themselves.  

The "how" matters and they've done poorly in that regards in my opinion and it might be a lack of experience in handling bargaining issues and/or receiving poor advices.

There's plenty of examples where players lost the sympathy of fans due to how they conducted their bargaining from leagues like NHL, NBA, MLB even MLS.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ansem

[Ottawafan]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

Outside of the contexte of finally coming out of a pandemic, offering to host CanWNT free of charge I assume would mean that all revenues would go straight to the CSA - Tickets, food & booze, merch etc...

Thank again, do you trust the CSA to manage the funds well?

2 years in a pandemic, 3/4 in the pandemic - I think CSB had other priorities like flat out surviving and avoid folding the league

Honestly I don't feel like the CSA will manage the funds properly.  Proper representation from the board and the CSA is needed.

I am not anti CPL or CSB.  They have an important role to play in the development of the game in Canada.  I am opposed to the CSA diverting resources away from the NT's to a private business.  I am opposed to the CSA feeling like they can hose the players and their teams.  I support the players and hope they get everything they can.  Not like the CSA has done a good job of taking care of them, which is why the players feel the need to flex.

[Ottawafan]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The "how" matters and they've done poorly in that regards in my opinion and it might be a lack of experience in handling bargaining issues and/or receiving poor advices.

There's plenty of examples where players lost the sympathy of fans due to how they conducted their bargaining from leagues like NHL, NBA, MLB even MLS.

 

That is true.  The players tho aren't negotiating their full livelihood, like North American pro leagues.  These players make their money from their domestic leagues, not representing their country.  They don't need the NT for financial advancement.  The CSA needs them tho.  Their brand/financial situation is dependent on the core group of players playing.  They decide not to show up, go ahead play the B squad.  Would likely be a disaster for the national squads.

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They have a right to ask for more. I'm really bothered by the "how" they go about it.

For me it's not about the right. Sure they have the right. For me it's about the way the go about it. The rub for me is partly down to the minor league comments directed at the CPL, but it is mostly the "tunnel vision" they seem to have, and the lack of "give a shit" for everyone and everything downstream from them. The fans have to suffer? Oh well. It would put the CSA in the poor house? Oh well. Yes for the millionth time, the CSA needs to do better and be more transparent, but you cannot squeeze blood from a stone. I think the players need to work within the financial realities of the situation and ask for more transparency, not tear down the CSB/CPL. It feels like Canadian soccer as a whole wants to cut off its nose to spite it's face at the moment. 

[Bison44]

1 minute ago, Ottawafan said:

Honestly I don't feel like the CSA will manage the funds properly.  Proper representation from the board and the CSA is needed.

I am not anti CPL or CSB.  They have an important role to play in the development of the game in Canada.  I am opposed to the CSA diverting resources away from the NT's to a private business.  I am opposed to the CSA feeling like they can hose the players and their teams.  I support the players and hope they get everything they can.  Not like the CSA has done a good job of taking care of them, which is why the players feel the need to flex.

They are not diverting anything.  CSA were paid for certain rights by CSB.  When CSA was getting a steady income for those rights which NO ONE wanted in 2019, there wasnt a bidding war for these rights, and CSA was not capable of maximizing these for profits, and NO ONE complained.  And CSA used that money to fund the success on the field both programs had the last 3-4 years.  Now some people think that CSB is making huge profits of those rights and they want to complain with the benefit of hindsight.  But plenty of the sponsorship money is tied into a combo of national team/CPL rights.  So that value is not all the national teams.  

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Honestly I don't feel like the CSA will manage the funds properly.  Proper representation from the board and the CSA is needed.

I am not anti CPL or CSB.  They have an important role to play in the development of the game in Canada.  I am opposed to the CSA diverting resources away from the NT's to a private business.  I am opposed to the CSA feeling like they can hose the players and their teams.  I support the players and hope they get everything they can.  Not like the CSA has done a good job of taking care of them, which is why the players feel the need to flex.

I feel like I am missing something when I see posts like this. Please correct me where I am wrong:

- The CSA made a bad deal with the CSB

- The CSA is short on money as a result of the deal

- The CSA cannot meet the asks of both sets of players because they are short on money

If this is not the reality of the situation at a high level, please correct me. If it is the reality of the situation, then how could you possibly frame this as the CSA wanting to hose the players?

That's like if I struggling to put food on the table because I got a pay cut at work, or got turned upside down on my mortgage, and then my wife and kids accuse me of trying to "hose" them out of eating.

[RS]

13 hours ago, The Ref said:

Labbe was hardly an average keeper during her last years and a poor one at her beginnings.

So?

[Aird25]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The CSA is short on money as a result of the deal

Do we actually know that this is true, and if it is, wouldn’t the deal only be one potential factor in why CSA is short on money?

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Do we actually know that this is true, and if it is, wouldn’t the deal only be one potential factor in why CSA is short on money?

If this is not true, I am all ears to learn the reality. This has just been my understanding up to this point. I am nowhere close to being the most informed on this issue.

Secondly, you are correct it would be just one factor, but it would be the most significant one. Let's pretend though that all the CSB stuff is not a factor either way and the CSA was still struggling for money. If the players ask the CSA for money and the CSA dosen't have it, that's end of the road on that, no? 

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Do we actually know that this is true, and if it is, wouldn’t the deal only be one potential factor in why CSA is short on money?

That seems to be at the core of the issue. The players thinks that the CSB deal is the reason they aren't getting paid and that the CSA can't fully simultaneously funds its programs and camps.

That's an oversimplification by them or whomever is advising them.

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Let's pretend though that all the CSB stuff is not a factor either way and the CSA was still struggling for money. If the players ask the CSA for money and the CSA dosen't have it, that's end of the road on that, no? 

It wouldn't be if they had to take the CSA word for it but if that parliamentary committee does confirm this, I fully expect the players to compromise and work within the CSA current financial reality.

They will get the CSA governance reforms regardless but no more throwing the rest of Canadian soccer under the bus until they get paid what they think they should get