The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

League 1 Canada?

What about it? It's not really anything. It's an umbrella for 3 leagues, 2 of which they don't own.

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Who cares? That's not the point. The point is that investment is needed in D3 and its part of the bigger picture to grow our pool and funnel the best into CPL or abroad. This falls under CSB and we've seen their involvement like I listed above - it's just the beginning. Part of that CSB funding will come from the marketing money from the deal with the CSA and in tern I expect them to grow the league 1 brand as much as possible.

You're expecting CSB to invest in D3. I'm really not, beyond providing a few common services.  CSB does not own the clubs in the L1s, and I think it's primay focus for investment will remain the CPL.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, Cblake said:

This is great to see, hopefully the Feds can hold the CSA's feet to the fire. 

https://www.thespec.com/ts/sports/soccer/2023/02/13/liberal-mp-wants-to-expedite-having-canada-soccer-before-parliamentary-committee.html?fbclid=IwAR3EPn6ri8qGjDctsAI9o351CbMoW-FkefBjzxB1PlXqorV9NnqEwhiLVXc

The fact that this goes to the house of common is beyond ridiculous

I agree with this article

9 minutes ago, red card said:

A mainstream sports journo view of things via Cathal Kelly of the Globe:

 

First, that no one cares how much money a soccer player makes. I care about what nurses make...Soccer, I can live without. So can you.

Second, beyond basic necessities, we are all owed the same thing in our professional lives – whatever we can negotiate.

Third, that none of this has anything to do with fairness, a word that gets tossed around a lot whenever this issue arises. This is about money...This is about getting and/or keeping as much for yourself as you can.

Canada Soccer is to blame for letting it get to this because its No. 1 job is making sure things never get to this.

By all means, do what you (players) feel you must to get what you believe you deserve. But don’t feel the need to tell us every twist in the story. Call us when it’s all over. Or don’t.

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canada-soccer-to-blame-for-womens-national-team-players-dispute/

 

 

Seriously, you have 200 000 federal public servants set to strike because they didn't get a raise in 2 years and the Feds are offering 2% a year while they couldn't get paid on time or at all since the mid 2010s (oh btw - someone committed suicide over this, whil others lost their houses and health) - many had to take 2 - 3 jobs

And the government is dragging this in front of a parliamentary committee for pro athletes??? WTF are we doing????????

Edited February 13, 2023 by Ansem

[Sal333]

39 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

CSB made a deal with CSA.  They paid cash on the barrel for certain rights from CSA.  How is that not capitalism??  Money is not being funneled into CSB under the table, they paid for something and prob lost money for the first few years and now maybe they are making money of that deal.  You can whine about how its a bad deal for CSA...THIS YEAR.  Maybe next year after all the money grubbing by the players, all the fans will be turned off and there wont be any sponsors at all for the national team, and it'll be a shitty deal for CSB.  

Go listen to the Sinclair and Beckie video.

They're not talking about pay. They're talking about cuts to the budget that will hamper the national teams' ability to compete. That means the senior and youth teams. 

I don't want to get into this again because it's pointless. We won't resolve anything.

The CSA is not a private organization. Ask yourself why the CSA will not open up their books. I'm sure we'll find more than one devil in those details.

[Cblake]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

CSB/CPL made clear that they wanted to launch a Women's League but it wasn't "fast" enough for some of them who conveniently didn't take into account the 2 years under a pandemic that has been absolutely brutal for everyone in football from MLS to Ligue 1 shutting down.

What got lost in the discussion was that CSB owns L1O for the women's side while L1s will all have women's division. Project 6 wanting to launch without CSB is pure idiotic as they'll keep cashing in CanWNT marketing revenues regardless. They don't "have" to send them cheques, that's not how business works. The right thing to do is to work with them.

Not a fan of Rollins but he even said so himself and said that CPL was genuinely working on it and there was progress being made. They got blindsided by Project six. From a business perspective, not a great start. They talks about having stadiums and club working and I'll defend TFC here - not a great look to publicly shame them for not joining your project - you aren't entitled to stuff that isn't yours.

I 1000% want this league to happen but the way they go at it publicly and business-wise has left me less than impressed and pessimistic about the whole thing. Build the best business case you can without your "feelings" or a chip on your shoulders. They are coming across as such and I dislike it.

https://24thminute.substack.com/p/a-league-of-good-intentions

Here’s the thing: CSB and CanPL has been working on a women’s league proposal. They haven’t been moving as quickly as I, or others, would like, but they have been. They have investigated the very things that Matheson is talking about.

Additionally, as I’ve been told a couple times this week, the resistance to the women’s project mostly left the league office this year. Draw your own conclusions as to why, but I’m told that there is far more interest in a women’s league now than there was at this time last year.

There are people at the league office who have been working very hard at the project, in fact. For a lot longer than the 6-months that Matheson said her team has been. Those people are feeling a little discouraged today by an announcement that they see as premature and possibly harmful, I’m told.

There is not enough interest or understanding out there for two groups to be chasing the same thing without ultimately sinking each other. One has to step aside so that all efforts are coming from a single source.

Sadly, though, the suits are in a better position to get $80-million (according to the numbers Matheson has provided) in seed money to start this league than a former soccer player doing her MBA. I don’t mean to be cruel about it, but think about it from a detached business perspective.

Bay Street doesn’t care about Bronze Medals. The Bronze medal might get you the meeting, but after that, what matters is a solid business plan that shows where and when the profits are going to come.

What would be best is for Matheson’s group to reach out to CSB and work with them to get this done. We may not like how CSB came to be, but the reality is that they are here and they are set-up to support Canadian soccer. There has been work done and contacts made.

The one thing that did have me take notice on this proposed league was the Whitecaps involvement. Being one of three MLS teams in the country Greg Kerfoot and Jeff Mallett know their way around a board room from their vast business experiences. Why would they attach their name to something if it was not on solid footing? What are they seeing that TFC is not? Guess we will find out as things progress. 

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

What about it? It's not really anything. It's an umbrella for 3 leagues, 2 of which they don't own.

You're expecting CSB to invest in D3. I'm really not, beyond providing a few common services.  CSB does not own the clubs in the L1s, and I think it's primay focus for investment will remain the CPL.

It's hilarious how far you're willing to not acknowledge anything they are doing. Have it your way and yeah - 3 MLS clubs shall get us to the promise land of winning trophies and going deep the world cup.

I think most understand that having Davies, David, Eustaquio, Larin all at once with a bare bone program was more of an anomaly and shouldn't be taken for granted.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, Cblake said:

The one thing that did have me take notice on this proposed league was the Whitecaps involvement. Being one of three MLS teams in the country Greg Kerfoot and Jeff Mallett know their way around a board room from their vast business experiences. Why would they attach their name to something if it was not on solid footing? What are they seeing that TFC is not? Guess we will find out as things progress. 

Montreal also said they weren't going to join. I'll say this, after the Whitecaps scandal - good PR, no?

[kacbru]

1 minute ago, Sal333 said:

Go listen to the Sinclair and Beckie video.

They're not talking about pay. They're talking about cuts to the budget that will hamper the national teams' ability to compete. That means the senior and youth teams. 

I don't want to get into this again because it's pointless. We won't resolve anything.

The CSA is not a private organization. Ask yourself why the CSA will not open up their books. I'm sure we'll find more than one devil in those details.

This is the only question that matters to me.  And I don't mean open the books to the public, but rather why won't they show the players the situation.

Are they embarrassed, ashamed, incompetent, corrupt, etc.?  How else can their refusal to be transparent with the players be explained?

[Cblake]

Just now, Ansem said:

Montreal also said they weren't going to join. I'll say this, after the Whitecaps scandal - good PR, no?

That very likely play a part in it. Montreal not being involved is not surprising, not sure they would be in any form, league etc, Joey marches to his own drummer and Quebec is unique in its own way. MLSE taking a wait and see approach at this moment , especially since they do not even have a new President and CEO in place yet makes sense. If anyone was going to bring the NWSL to Canada it would likely been them or Vancouver. The big thing is if the NWSL was the path taken for the women's game in this country it would be 3-4 teams max with the projected price tag of $50M US for the next round of expansion. At the current exchange rate that is over $66M CDN. That would be a lot of money going out the door before anything else, that money is better used elsewhere, keeping it within Canada. Hopefully everyone can figure this out and work together to the greater good of this project. 

 

$66,680,500.00 CDN for a NWSL Expansion team, think about it. 

[Gian-Luca]

I'm confused as to where people are confused as to where the sponsorship money goes. It goes to the CSB, in return for the CSB annually pumping money into the CSA.

You can ask the CSA all you want in the House of Commons where their money is spent (even though we can all see that for ourselves on Twitter), but are the House of Commons really going to ask the CSB to divulge where in their business coffers the sponsorship money is going?  Why should the House of Commons care?

Or is all really now about gender equity now that the women have played the misogyny card (in all but name only)?

[Ruud]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

If you look at the USSF/SUM relationship which was simular, the NTs kept winning trophies and medals and qualifying consistently for World Cups and getting prize money over prize money which I assumed went straight to USSF, not SUM. (WC money goes to CSA and not CSB)

Hate to sound like this but this is aimed at the men specifically - start winning trophies. If you're called up, for Nations League / Glod Cup - show up and win. I'm aiming at the guys who benefited from the same SUM/MLS formula and shamelessly took aimed at CPL.

Start winning your association more money.

Sorry for the tone - not impressed with the men's statement

 

Winning trophies doesn’t let youhave any share of sponsorship proceeds or deals.  
although I assume deals with specific sponsors involve money for players as well as CSB.  But I’m not sure this really addresses incentives to find new sponsors since CSB is the one cashing in 

[Ruud]

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Montreal also said they weren't going to join. I'll say this, after the Whitecaps scandal - good PR, no?

Not Montreal - Quebec City was mentioned

[InglewoodJack]

Lol even the CSB is throwing Canada Soccer under the bus

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Shway]

10 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Lol even the CSB is throughout Canada Soccer under the bus

 

They are still scums....Simpson and Friend. They don't know what it means to represent our country...oh wait,

 

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

Go listen to the Sinclair and Beckie video.

They're not talking about pay. They're talking about cuts to the budget that will hamper the national teams' ability to compete. That means the senior and youth teams. 

I don't want to get into this again because it's pointless. We won't resolve anything.

The CSA is not a private organization. Ask yourself why the CSA will not open up their books. I'm sure we'll find more than one devil in those details.

You said this isnt capitalism.  Paying for something and getting something then turning a profit on said item sure sounds like capitalism.    Thats not subsidizing the CPL off the backs of national team, thats a business deal.  Is it a good deal, does it leave enough to do what we all want with the program?  No. But go ahead open the books, I'm sure there are million dollar payments to Snidly Whiplash and Mr Burns in there.  

However handing over the majority of the 10 million mens world cup payment to the players instead of funnelling it back into the program  and then have the same players complain there isnt money to run the program is pretty rich.  And for everyone who covers up the maple leaf on their shirt...well no ones forcing you to wear it..what does Herdman say, he wants people that will do anything for the shirt???  

[Gian-Luca]

"No investor in CSB has ever taken a distribution" is perhaps the most interesting part of that statement. In any case, I am glad that they have finally spoken up.

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Not Montreal - Quebec City was mentioned

It was indeed about CF Montreal

 

5 minutes ago, Ruud said:

Winning trophies doesn’t let youhave any share of sponsorship proceeds or deals.  
although I assume deals with specific sponsors involve money for players as well as CSB.  But I’m not sure this really addresses incentives to find new sponsors since CSB is the one cashing in 

Winning trophies, qualifying to World Cup and going far in the competition means prize money paid to the association - money that CSB or SUM are not entitled too. Despite the deal with SUM, the USSF never really had an issue with revenues thanks to all those trophies and WC qualifications which explain how they could organized all those camps and pour money into the sport over the years.

Gold Cup

 

Last World Cup

[Ansem]

 

Translation

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

It's hilarious how far you're willing to not acknowledge anything they are doing. Have it your way and yeah - 3 MLS clubs shall get us to the promise land of winning trophies and going deep the world cup.

I think most understand that having Davies, David, Eustaquio, Larin all at once with a bare bone program was more of an anomaly and shouldn't be taken for granted.

I have constantly promoted and supported the L1s. It's a massive development for this country, a network of clubs that hopefully goes coast to coast finding players at a younger age and starting their development.  It's just hilarious to me how much you cry because I don't give all the credit for the L1s to CSB, which hasn't done anything for it yet.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Watchmen

[Aird25]

28 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

what does Herdman say, he wants people that will do anything for the shirt?

The women will do anything for the shirt... well other than share a hotel room with a teammate 

[Sal333]

22 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Y

However handing over the majority of the 10 million mens world cup payment to the players instead of funnelling it back into the program  and then have the same players complain there isnt money to run the program is pretty rich.  And for everyone who covers up the maple leaf on their shirt...well no ones forcing you to wear it..what does Herdman say, he wants people that will do anything for the shirt???  

You see this attitude grinds my gears. It's okay for owners to take advantage of the CSA and make a profit but if the players who are actually doing all the work ask for compensation from the prize they won somehow that is reprehensible.

Again, the CSA doesn't want to open up the books. I can understand the CSB not wanting to, they're a private entity. The CSA isn't. I'm not asking for them to open the books to the public. To the players will do. But they refuse to do so.  There's something wrong there.

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

You see this attitude grinds my gears. It's okay for owners to take advantage of the CSA and make a profit but if the players who are actually doing all the work ask for compensation from the prize they won somehow that is reprehensible.

Take advantage? Who stopped them from saying no? Who else was going to offer more to the CSA in terms of both money AND building the pyramid?

Time for people to realize that back in 2019, the CSA was all but worthless

I keep reading the complaining... what would you have done if a group gave you the same thing SUM did for USSF/MLS knowing where they are today? You would have passed in 2019 and found a better way than SUM?

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Ansem

[gator]

Something else that I haven't seen mentioned and the new show on One Soccer just brought up is a domestic league was a condition for us to be awarded matches in the 2026 WC, just as it was for the US in 94, we probably wouldn't have got this league going without CSB's initial and continued involvment and that would be quite a potential windfall to miss out on! I think this whole mess is terribly complicated and hopefully it gets sorted and doesn't negatively impact what has been trending in a good way! 

[Bison44]

Just now, gator said:

Something else that I haven't seen mentioned and the new show on One Soccer just brought up is a domestic league was a condition for us to be awarded matches in the 2026 WC, just as it was for the US in 94, we probably wouldn't have got this league going without CSB's initial and continued involvment and that would be quite a potential windfall to miss out on! I think this whole mess is terribly complicated and hopefully it gets sorted and doesn't negatively impact what has been trending in a good way! 

You wouldnt have Onesoccer without that CSB/CPL deal either.  Think of the hundreds and hundreds of hours dedicated to soccer in canada, CPL, MLS, national teams

[kacbru]

Canadian women: We want training resources, youth investment and friendlies/send-off prior to world cup.

Sponsors: We want friendlies/send-off prior to world cup.

CSB: We want training resources, youth investment and friendlies/send-off prior to world cup.

CSA: Nah.

At the very least, the CSA should explain why it is not possible.

Edited February 14, 2023 by kacbru
clarity

[Watchmen]

7 minutes ago, gator said:

Something else that I haven't seen mentioned and the new show on One Soccer just brought up is a domestic league was a condition for us to be awarded matches in the 2026 WC, just as it was for the US in 94.

And that league didn't get up and running until 1996 and if it had never happened FIFA wouldn't really care because they'd already been and gotten their money. A condition of the 2022 world cup was that it be held in the summer and that didn't happen.  FIFA's rules are 100% flexible, so long as they get their money.