CANCELLED WC Prep Match #1: Canada vs Iran - Sunday, June 5 BC Place, Vancouver

[RJB]

12 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I have nothing but love and respect for all those kids on the national team but, I have to say, I don't get why they would speak out against this. If you want to stand up for human rights, rights of women, anti-slavery, etc. you shouldn't be going to Qatar, and probably shouldn't be part of FIFA in any capacity. The whole system is corrupt at best and supports human trafficking both figuratively and literally in some cases.

They shouldn't have spoke out on this issue because there are bigger ones?  Seems like a comment one could use endlessly. 

[Cadeau]

Well the team comes out of this smelling like roses. When they'll be the feel good/Cinderella story of Qatar; well all look back at this and laugh

[yellowsweatygorilla]

39 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I have nothing but love and respect for all those kids on the national team but, I have to say, I don't get why they would speak out against this. If you want to stand up for human rights, rights of women, anti-slavery, etc. you shouldn't be going to Qatar, and probably shouldn't be part of FIFA in any capacity. The whole system is corrupt at best and supports human trafficking both figuratively and literally in some cases.

I keep seeing these comments this past week, but what frustrates me about it is that it is a fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of boycotts. Boycotts aren't statements of purity. They are actions meant to serve particular political objectives - in this case raise awareness for the families of those killed by Iranian state violence/challenge erasure in what was perceived as a callous move while families are still grieving.

What sets this apart from going to Qatar is that unlike the Iranian activists, none of the migrant labour organizations have called for a boycott. Sure, it's likely due to recognition that that won't be a feasible campaign given the lack of political will, but ultimately, that is the strategy activists have decided on. Instead, migrant labour orgs are calling players, fans, and journalists to take action during the games. Now, there's a good chance no player, including ours, will do anything. I'd be pretty damn proud if our players do - but it's pretty silly to call them hypocrites before they've been given an opportunity to engage with what the people impacted are actually demanding of them.

The claim that if you take one action, you must take the same action for every single issue is just obfuscation, an excuse for inaction.

[Gian-Luca]

50 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I have nothing but love and respect for all those kids on the national team but, I have to say, I don't get why they would speak out against this. If you want to stand up for human rights, rights of women, anti-slavery, etc. you shouldn't be going to Qatar, and probably shouldn't be part of FIFA in any capacity. The whole system is corrupt at best and supports human trafficking both figuratively and literally in some cases.

What exactly are they speaking out on? I don't see the players addressing any of those issues in Osorio's comments, the Westhead TSN video I posted earlier in the thread indicated that the players concerns were to do with "playing in an atmosphere of protest" and all to do with the negative "environment" that would be at the stadium with anticipated protests going on. The players stance on this evidently changed from the early days when Cavallini said they needed this match to help prepare for the World Cup, dismissing the PM's condemnation in the process. It seems to be that what caused the stance to change was the media & government stirring up/exacerbating public disapproval so that by the time the roster was released the players felt that it would poor a poor environment to play in. I don't see reason to believe that the players suddenly became concerned with Iran's domestic lack of women's rights mid-week, I think it's all to do with the circumstances changing thanks to the two main protagonists in that regard - the government and the clueless media with their largely one-sided, ill-informed coverage of the issues (case in point, I had to explain to another 3 people today off-line that the match against Ukraine isn't likely to happen, at least not for early June - it's not because the people in question are simpletons, they are simply as casual sports fans getting misinformed by the media).

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Gian-Luca

[yellowsweatygorilla]

19 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

What exactly are they speaking out on? I don't see the players addressing any of those issues in Osorio's comments, the Westhead TSN video I posted earlier in the thread indicated that the players concerns were to do with "playing in an atmosphere of protest" and all to do with the negative "environment" that would be at the stadium with anticipated protests going on. The players stance on this evidently changed from the early days when Cavallini said they needed this match to help prepare for the World Cup, dismissing the PM's condemnation in the process. It seems to be that what caused the stance to change was the media & government stirring up/exacerbating public disapproval so that by the time the roster was released the players felt that it would poor a poor environment to play in. I don't see reason to believe that the players suddenly became concerned with Iran's domestic lack of women's rights mid-week, I think it's all to do with the circumstances changing thanks to the two main protagonists in that regard - the government and the clueless media with their largely one-sided, ill-informed coverage of the issues (case in point, I had to explain to another 3 people today off-line that the match against Ukraine isn't likely to happen, at least not for early June - it's not because the people in question are simpletons, they are simply as casual sports fans getting misinformed by the media).

 

Edit: I'm an idiot. Thought this was in response to my comment

Edited May 28, 2022 by yellowsweatygorilla

[Gian-Luca]

18 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I was responding to the previous comment suggesting that players would by hypocritical for doing this if they did not also boycott Qatar. If you don't believe the players have any consideration of the political context raised by the Iranian families then I don't understand why you'd even respond to my point, since it makes the initial point I was answering moot?

????

I wasn't responding to your point, in fact I didn't even read your post when I was writing mine. I was clearly quoting youllneverwalkalone and responding to his question about why the players were now speaking out about Iran's human rights, lack of women's rights, etc - I was pointing out that there's no indication that they are doing so. I don't know who has seen the Rick Westhead video I posted up thread and who hasn't, but the greater information it provides about the nature of what the players concerns were - "playing in an atmosphere of protest" (that's a quote from the video from the guy who broke the story on this) seemed relevant to answer Youllneverwalkalone's question or perhaps corrects an assumption he's made without having that extra bit of information.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Gian-Luca

[yellowsweatygorilla]

3 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

????

I wasn't responding to your point, in fact I didn't even read your post when I was writing mine. I was clearly quoting youllneverwalkalone and responding to his question about why the players were now speaking out about Iran's human rights, lack of women's rights, etc - I was pointing out that there's no indication that they are doing so. I don't know who has seen the Rick Westhead video I posted up thread and who hasn't, but the greater information it provides about the nature of what the players concerns were - "playing in an atmosphere of protest" (that's a quote from the video from the guy who broke the story on this) seemed relevant to answer Youllneverwalkalone's question or perhaps corrects an assumption he's made without having that extra bit of information.

I edited my last post before you posted this. I am an idiot, I misread your post.

Edited May 28, 2022 by yellowsweatygorilla

[Obinna]

43 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I edited my last post before you posted this. I am an idiot, I misread your post.

All good bud, don't beat yourself up about it too much! More than one other poster got some value out of your posts on the topic. Thanks for sharing.

[Rougeisthecolour]

It's a healthy debate on the cancelled match vs Iran and posters will never come to an agreement and we shouldn't. Life would be far too boring. It's always important to hear all sides and oponions in a debate and respect those opionions.

I appreciate many of the posts that I do not agree with. 

We all have a passion for the CMNT and Canadian soccer. I will gladly have a pre-match and after match pint with anyone on the board despite differing opoinions on the cancelled match. We love Canadian soccer or we wouldn't be here.

 

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

????

I wasn't responding to your point, in fact I didn't even read your post when I was writing mine. I was clearly quoting youllneverwalkalone and responding to his question about why the players were now speaking out about Iran's human rights, lack of women's rights, etc - I was pointing out that there's no indication that they are doing so. I don't know who has seen the Rick Westhead video I posted up thread and who hasn't, but the greater information it provides about the nature of what the players concerns were - "playing in an atmosphere of protest" (that's a quote from the video from the guy who broke the story on this) seemed relevant to answer Youllneverwalkalone's question or perhaps corrects an assumption he's made without having that extra bit of information.

I didn't see the video and just assumed from the article that it was some sort of protest of the opponent by our players. It does seem several people here are under that impression as well.

In a sense I feel worse as I don't think the vast majority of people here were thinking about an atmosphere of protest. We were thinking about an atmosphere of celebration for the group. There's a large Persian community here that does not seem particularly political either. 

I'm pretty sure none of the Iranian players or members of the FA were involved in shooting down any planes. Adults should be able to figure this out. But sadly, we have to be perpetually outraged and let the Twitter mob -literally in this case- run out lives.

[CalgaryKicker]

On 5/17/2022 at 12:57 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

0% chance.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 1:24 PM, Floortom said:

Agreed there is almost a 0% chance of this getting cancelled

This didn't age well...

[Floortom]

22 minutes ago, CalgaryKicker said:

 

This didn't age well...

You went back through pages of threads just to post this?

that’s weird 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Well written:

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/worldcup/canada-soccer-world-cup-iran-chris-jones-1.6471953

[Kadenge]

7 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Well written:

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/worldcup/canada-soccer-world-cup-iran-chris-jones-1.6471953

That first para wow..."In March Canada mens qualified for their first World Cup in 36 years. It took Canada Soccer about  6 weeks to remind everyone why it took so long". 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

56 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

That first para wow..."In March Canada mens qualified for their first World Cup in 36 years. It took Canada Soccer about  6 weeks to remind everyone why it took so long". 

Ya, a very sharp opening sentence.

[CanadianTraveller]

The last sentence in the article is the key one, though:

"And before any expedition, the first and most important choice is who you choose to lead you."

No General Secretary (seconded to 2026 WC), no assistant general secretary (unexpectedly stepped down). For six months now. During arguably the busiest time, the most novel period in CSA history. Searchlight still on-the-job looking for replacements? I don't see the CSA on their lengthy client list.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Well written:

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/worldcup/canada-soccer-world-cup-iran-chris-jones-1.6471953

Not well argued though. Lots of whining (including, seemingly, that the Iran friendly was cancelled even though he thinks it was a bad idea to begin with) but very little in the way of constructive suggestions or solutions. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

14 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Not well argued though. Lots of whining (including, seemingly, that the Iran friendly was cancelled even though he thinks it was a bad idea to begin with) but very little in the way of constructive suggestions or solutions. 

His solution is clear:

Have people on staff with better judgement, social, political and otherwise.

The CSA aren't incompetent in any basic or traditional sense, they just lack some savvy. Sometimes that's the difference between success and failure.

[Obinna]

16 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

His solution is clear:

Have people on staff with better judgement, social, political and otherwise.

The CSA aren't incompetent in any basic or traditional sense, they just lack some savvy. Sometimes that's the difference between success and failure.

If the solution was this simple, don't you think it would have occurred already?

Wanting staff with so-called "better judgement" is one thing, but those people have to be available and they must want to work for you, wouldn't you agree? For example, are you going to quit your day job to work for the CSA? You clearly have the sort of judgement lacking at the CSA, evidenced by the fact you had the foresight to see this coming well in advance.

That's why you and others were here on the board clamoring for the friendly to be cancelled from the moment it was announced, warning us all that it was destined to blow up and was only a matter of time. The threads were chalked full of such warnings from yourself and others, if I recall correctly.

the last part is sarcasm, by the way.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Obinna

[Gian-Luca]

19 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

His solution is clear:

Have people on staff with better judgement, social, political and otherwise.

That's not especially constructive though. Since he acknowledges that Canada needs to play against better opponents to prepare for the World Cup and yet he's also dismissing teams like Panama who, ironically, the day before beat a team 2-0 who is likely going to the World Cup as preparation, who exactly does he think we should have played that actually would want to play us and was available to do so? And how would having someone staff with better "political or social" judgment - which sounds like it would only be restricting us further in our options of who we can play against since it smacks of avoiding countries that we have moral issues with, such as Qatar - allow us to make such a match happen?

As I was reading the article I was waiting for him to come out with the "We should have played Ukraine this window instead" nonsense, so I will at least give him credit for steering clear of that CBC-instigated nonsense

Edited June 3, 2022 by Gian-Luca

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

18 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

"We should have played Ukraine this window instead" nonsense, so I will at least give him credit for steering clear of that CBC-instigated nonsense

That nonsense started from the Ukrainian ambassador to Canada and the CBC repeated it.

Obviously she was just looked for attention (and got it) despite the fact it was obvious to everyone that they were in the middle of WCQ.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

That nonsense started from the Ukrainian ambassador to Canada and the CBC repeated it.

Obviously she was just looked for attention (and got it) despite the fact it was obvious to everyone that they were in the middle of WCQ.

I think that's the point.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

57 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's why you and others were here on the board clamoring for the friendly to be cancelled from the moment it was announced, 

To fair, (I obviously never wanted it to be cancelled) but I severely underestimated the PR backlash that this friendly would generate.

In the friendly speculation thread I always thought the plans for Iran were for a match on neutral ground in September or in November before the World Cup.

I thought the logistics of bringing Iran here were likely too crazy to begin with so when the game was announced I was pleasantly surprised.

All that to say, the CSA needs people with even better judgement than me haha.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[SpursFlu]

Was there a PR backlash?

Seems a very few people (understandably) were upset. Then the CSA canceled the game and they managed to make everyone upset

Edited June 3, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Colonel Green]

23 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Was there a PR backlash?

Yes.