CANCELLED WC Prep Match #1: Canada vs Iran - Sunday, June 5 BC Place, Vancouver

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

Waiting for the players to be called tyrants! 

This is a failure of a joke lol

[Rougeisthecolour]

So what is the conspiracy now, politicians called up the players and forced them to write an email/letter to soccer Canada to cancel the match??? I am waiting for the new narrative, now that the old one no longer fits.

Good on the players for letting their thoughts on the match be recognized. We are a "young" soccer nation and a lot has been learned. time to move on and focus on what is important a camp and two matches in preparation for the World Cup.

[Obinna]

 

30 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Confirmation that players petitioned CSA to cancel friendly. Respect to the players in what must've been a difficult decision.

https://www.timescolonist.com/national-sports/osorio-says-canadian-players-told-canada-soccer-they-were-against-iran-game-5416027

I think having the players send that email is good for the optics of the team in the midst of this, potentially even Herdman, him being the coach.

One point of interest was that the email was sent to a "Senior CSA official", whom I assume isn't Herdman. That perhaps takes any heat of him. The article gives the impression this was more of a CSA decision than a Herdman one, so that's good for him, I think.

Another point of interest was the absence of Cavallini's previous statements in that article. If I consider the timeline, and if I assume Cavallini's attitude was that of the players and not just his own, the team must have gone from being excited to play, to hesitant about playing, and finally to sending that email suggesting perhaps they shouldn't. 

Finally, I get the impression from Osorio that had the CSA pushed forward, players would have still played, even if they internally thought it was a bad idea.

He mentioned that he feels the email didn't affect the decision to cancel the game, and they "just sent our concerns". To me that suggests there wasn't a hard line in the sand from the players, but rather the email was to communicate playing was not their preference.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Obinna

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Rougeisthecolour said:

So what is the conspiracy now, politicians called up the players and forced them to write an email/letter to soccer Canada to cancel the match??? I am waiting for the new narrative, now that the old one no longer fits.

Good on the players for letting their thoughts on the match be recognized. We are a "young" soccer nation and a lot has been learned. time to move on and focus on what is important a camp and two matches in preparation for the World Cup.

What? 

[Gian-Luca]

Nothing has changed from this confirmation of what was already reported, the “conspiracy” put forth by those in the know on this board that the government threatened to pull/slash funding for the CSA could easily still be true, particularly as their is no reason to believe that the players would have cc’d various members of the government on their email to Herdman. If that threat indeed did happen then it would’ve been done independently of this, not in conjunction with it. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Gian-Luca

[Obinna]

@Rougeisthecolour Gian-Luca puts it well here  ^

[Mattd97]

35 minutes ago, cornerkick said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/osorio-says-canadian-players-told-canada-soccer-they-were-against-iran-game/

Almost as if scheduling Iran was.... a bad idea

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

IC Congress is pretty controversial .. according to some Iranian opposition activists I work with, at the last leadership race, pro-regime activists brought in outsiders, including non-Iranians to stack the board. If CSA worked with them, they'd be in an even bigger shit storm than they are right now...

Speaking of conspiracy, for all we know even our rude Iranian guest from yesterday could have been a pro-regime plant, sent here to muddy our clean, clean waters.

How's that, @Rougeisthecolour? 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Obinna

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Mattd97 said:

Almost as if scheduling Iran was.... a bad idea

It was in hindsight.

[yellowsweatygorilla]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Speaking of conspiracy, for all we know even our rude Iranian guest from yesterday could have been a pro-regime plant, sent here to muddy our clean, clean waters.

How's that, @Rougeisthecolour? 

Uh.. you don't have to believe the information I shared but even if it's untrue I am suggesting that working with a group perceived as being close to the regime is going to spark further discontent and anger. How much trust do you have in the CSA to navigate these complicated diasporic politics given how they've handled things so far. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Like I said to you before, all of that very much resembles other alleged cover ups that we dismiss (which I won't repeat again), but even if the reports from the Canadian side are true (not saying they aren't), the fact Iran hasn't admitted guilt is irrelevant, because Canada doesn't need agreement from Iran on what happened in order to take action that brings the victims closer to closure.

Maybe I shouldn't be using that term, closure, because in a sense you can never get full closure when your loved one is killed, one could argue.

What I mean is that had the Canadian government taken enough action against Iran there'd perhaps be a sense of justice, which would help the victims move on, maybe even to the point there wasn't such angst at playing Iran?

I know someone mentioned Canada already placed Iran on sanctions (don't know if that's accurate or if how much they are related to that particular incident), but clearly that was not the justice victims were looking for, otherwise they wouldn't be crying out to the Canadian government to do more. Now the game is not going ahead, conveniently for the government, and so they can return to the status-quo, hoping with time that people slowly put the incident behind them, without crying and kicking up too much of a stink for them to do something about it. 

Just want to say I made these points because I think it is an open debate, and worth seeing the various angles, as you are doing. 

Closure: 

First, there is a natural period of mourning even for a natural death, and longer if those dying are young. And perhaps even longer if dying unnecessarily. Two years is not a long period since the attack. They are still in mourning and it is still fresh. As the psychologists tell us, when mourning a loss time is a real factor.

Then, justice is the best way to get closure after any period of mourning. And Iran does not seem willing to give any of the victim's families justice. No one is being held criminally or civily liable. 

If an independent investigation could give a reasonable answer, to assuage the doubts, then you could also get some closure. 

Finally, compensation. I think the Iranian proposal does not even come to half a million per victim, which is not a lot. And usually, financial compensation is not a priority in the early stages, the loss and the desire for justice are greater. Only later can money help a bit. 

So I think we are in fact a long way from closure, the Canadian government is right to not assume anything and let things stay open (closing before a proper resolution would be considered suspect). Could they do more? I hope anyone is not so deluded to believe politicians are anywhere near efficient at their jobs. 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Uh.. you don't have to believe the information I shared but even if it's untrue I am suggesting that working with a group perceived as being close to the regime is going to spark further discontent and anger. How much trust do you have in the CSA to navigate these complicated diasporic politics given how they've handled things so far. 

None. And I actually believe the information you are sharing, by the way. I don't have a reason not to. I liked your post for a reason. 

[SpursFlu]

I spoke to an Iranian who I know thru work and I know is very active in that community and he just shrugged his soldiers and said he had his tickets and was excited to go. I said there's a lot going on there isn't there. He said yes there is, they should have worked things out beforehand. This basically sums up my point of view . I'm on to the next

[yellowsweatygorilla]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

None. And I actually believe the information you are sharing, by the way. I don't have a reason not to. I liked your post for a reason. 

Apologies. I misread your comment

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Apologies. I misread your comment

No worries, and I was just about to say the only reason I quoted you was because I was using it to make a little dig at the other posters "conspiracy" comment. It wasn't because I doubted your information. Cheers!

[Unnamed Trialist]

Commendable if the players did that, on many levels.

That they agreed and sent their views as a single voice, without dissenters.

That they expressed a view without making a demand.

That if the players are fine with not having a friendly, and are as committed as ever to preparing for the World Cup, then fans and supporters are going to accept losing the friendly as well. It helps turn the page. Players are not laying blame, fans need not either. Move on.

The ball is still in the CSA's court and they are not off the hook by any means.

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just want to say I made these points because I think it is an open debate, and worth seeing the various angles, as you are doing. 

Closure: 

First, there is a natural period of mourning even for a natural death, and longer if those dying are young. And perhaps even longer if dying unnecessarily. Two years is not a long period since the attack. They are still in mourning and it is still fresh. As the psychologists tell us, when mourning a loss time is a real factor.

Then, justice is the best way to get closure after any period of mourning. And Iran does not seem willing to give any of the victim's families justice. No one is being held criminally or civily liable. 

If an independent investigation could give a reasonable answer, to assuage the doubts, then you could also get some closure. 

Finally, compensation. I think the Iranian proposal does not even come to half a million per victim, which is not a lot. And usually, financial compensation is not a priority in the early stages, the loss and the desire for justice are greater. Only later can money help a bit. 

So I think we are in fact a long way from closure, the Canadian government is right to not assume anything and let things stay open (closing before a proper resolution would be considered suspect). Could they do more? I hope anyone is not so deluded to believe politicians are anywhere near efficient at their jobs. 

I agree with all of that. Just on the last part, which I bolded, I would imagine those victims WANT the Canadian government to do more. That's the impression I got from reading some of the articles that quoted some of the families of the victims. Moreover, if the Canadian government has evidence from an investigation, why not leverage that to give those families the justice they deserve? Clearly whatever form of compensation Iran provided them is insufficient, and they are asking our government to do more. At the very least they are/were asking our government not to play the game, so maybe Russia styled symbolic gestures would have done the trick. Russia didn't shoot down a plane with Canadians on it (that we know of), but Iran did and yet we have way more anti-Russian symbolic gestures from our government and society at large than toward Iran. 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Commendable if the players did that, on many levels.

That they agreed and sent their views as a single voice, without dissenters.

That they expressed a view without making a demand.

That if the players are fine with not having a friendly, and are as committed as ever to preparing for the World Cup, then fans and supporters are going to accept losing the friendly as well. It helps turn the page. Players are not laying blame, fans need not either. Move on.

The ball is still in the CSA's court and they are not off the hook by any means.

As it pertains to getting the team adequate preparation? Absolutely. 

[gator]

40 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This is a failure of a joke lol

How do you know it was a joke?😑

[Obinna]

Just now, gator said:

How do you know it was a joke?😑

Now that's more like it! Bravo! 😄

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agree with all of that. Just on the last part, which I bolded, I would imagine those victims WANT the Canadian government to do more. That's the impression I got from reading some of the articles that quoted some of the families of the victims. Moreover, if the Canadian government has evidence from an investigation, why not leverage that to give those families the justice they deserve? Clearly whatever form of compensation Iran provided them is insufficient, and they are asking our government to do more. At the very least they are/were asking our government not to play the game, so maybe Russia styled symbolic gestures would have done the trick. Russia didn't shoot down a plane with Canadians on it (that we know of), but Iran did and yet we have way more anti-Russian symbolic gestures from our government and society at large than toward Iran. 

The plane was shot down by Russian missiles and it was a Ukrainian plane on the way to Kiev. It was not an accident. They admitted someone gave orders. 

That someone would have been an Iranian command.

It was not a mistake either, because it makes no sense. 800 planes are going in and out of Teheran daily, but Iran shoots down a Ukrainian plane. By pure chance?

I am saying, basically: by mentioning Russia you picked a bad example, because Russia would have likely been involved in the decision to shoot down this particular passenger plane.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The plane was shot down by Russian missiles and it was a Ukrainian plane on the way to Kiev. It was not an accident. They admitted someone gave orders. 

That someone would have been an Iranian command.

It was not a mistake either, because it makes no sense. 800 planes are going in and out of Teheran daily, but Iran shoots down a Ukrainian plane. By pure chance?

I am saying, basically: by mentioning Russia you picked a bad example, because Russia would have likely been involved in the decision to shoot down this particular passenger plane.

Yes yes, I know you have a conspiracy theory that Russia was behind it, which may prove to be correct, but put that aside and entertain my example? Russia is the best example we have to illustrate what I am suggesting we do to Iran, who did a lot more to us than Russia did (assuming your theory is false, of course).

You're welcome to PM as well, out of respect for the thread and keeping it on topic.

Cheers

Edited May 27, 2022 by Obinna

[ag futbol]

6 hours ago, ensco said:

Putting aside the issue of blame, we have some obvious things to think about:

It looks like our lack of a large stadium with grass, in a big market that can pay the prices that can support the economics of multi-million dollar appearance fees, matters. So if we want to play the biggest teams, we will have to go to them, or to the promoters venues (eg Korea or similar), and we need to not kid ourselves about that.

I also think the desire to rotate venues hurt us.  Don't know if we should do something about that or not. It is not hard to imagine that we could have easily had Ecuador in Toronto.

 

We need to give the argos the boot and move to a 40k enclosed, BMO field. It seems like the entirely obvious thing to do. 

[ag futbol]

1 hour ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

IC Congress is pretty controversial .. according to some Iranian opposition activists I work with, at the last leadership race, pro-regime activists brought in outsiders, including non-Iranians to stack the board. If CSA worked with them, they'd be in an even bigger shit storm than they are right now...

Good context, thanks 

[youllneverwalkalone]

I have nothing but love and respect for all those kids on the national team but, I have to say, I don't get why they would speak out against this. If you want to stand up for human rights, rights of women, anti-slavery, etc. you shouldn't be going to Qatar, and probably shouldn't be part of FIFA in any capacity. The whole system is corrupt at best and supports human trafficking both figuratively and literally in some cases.