CANCELLED WC Prep Match #1: Canada vs Iran - Sunday, June 5 BC Place, Vancouver

[Shway]

15 minutes ago, Corazon said:

This soccer forum is starting to make me sick.  Isn't there a political forum that people can go rant on?

I understand that sport and politics sometimes mix and even more so in this thread but this is getting ridiculous.

This entire forum should be moved to this thread....
Oh what a coincidence I created it,  in a sub forum far away from this one.

 

Just so it's not missed 😁.

 

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Corazon said:

Ok, then focus on the soccer aspect of it. 

You (who i admire a lot on this forum) just wrote a 408 word political response to someone that literally never once mentioned, soccer, sport, the cancelled game or our National program.

The admiration goes both ways and I hear you, but the post I responded to was quoting a post that was about the cancellation of the game itself. This sort of spin off happens on the forum all the time. This wasn't a multi-page derailment.

I've gotten what I wanted to say off my chest. I am ready to move on from it. Cheers.

[The Beaver 2.0]

I'd be all for a match vs. Panama if that is the best we can get. We need a run out. We need time together. No, Panama is far from ideal here, but a hard fought friendly is better than crickets on a slow Sunday.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

I'd be all for a match vs. Panama if that is the best we can get. We need a run out. We need time together. No, Panama is far from ideal here, but a hard fought friendly is better than crickets on a slow Sunday.

Panama is better than nothing. Beggers can't be choosers. I would prefer Bolivia over Panama if that were possible, just for the fact they aren't from our region. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Obinna

[Shway]

Or this one....

guys just leave this thread alone, please do it for the children.

[Obinna]

By the way, Peter Galindo and Josh were live on Youtube yesterday and they were throwing around names like Colombia and Paraguay as long shot, but possible opponents (in addition to Bolivia). I don't know if that's been mentioned around here or if anyone here has looked up the schedule of those countries yet.

[mikey_s_]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

By the way, Peter Galindo and Josh were live on Youtube yesterday and they were throwing around names like Colombia and Paraguay as long shot, but possible opponents (in addition to Bolivia). I don't know if that's been mentioned around here or if anyone here has looked up the schedule of those countries yet.

Bolivia looks like they don't have any games planned (at least according to wiki and soccerway).

[Sal333]

48 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I liked your post, because there were some elements I agreed with, but on this particular bit I am conflicted. Up until very recently I would have agreed wholeheartedly with this, but seeing what's happened in Canada first hand gives me much more sympathy for the oppressed in Iran. You see, here in Canada nearly 1 in 10 people physically cannot leave without taking a medical procedure they can't or won't take, for whatever reason, under the guise of "safety" which is bullshit because if that were the case a negative test would be acceptable. That's the solution of any good actor seeking compromise instead of punishment. Such people are currently being prevented, physically, from leaving the country (lest they do so illegally) and try as they might their pleading and protest for a amicable solution has fallen on deaf ears. The government won't entertain it and the majority of Canadians either shrug their shoulders because it doesn't affect them (which is disgusting in my opinion), or go out of their way to fight against them for reasons that are political or ideological. The media by and large goes out of their way to do the same.

The system is against them on so many levels, so can we say it's their fault their freedom of moment has been reduced? It seems to be they are doing and have done all they can do, including resorting to some very desperate measures which led to undesirable outcomes for everyone. I can only imagine it's far, far, far worse for the people of Iran, but if they are anything like the Canadians I just described they have more than "looked to themselves" at this stage, but yet nothing has changed. Iranians are still under the thumb of their repressive government and it's been that way for decades. All you can do is flee, if you can, any way you can. I have had two co-workers in the past, from Iran, who had to do that.

I totally get the "you got to find a way to change things, nobody will do it for you", but basically I am trying to say that we're currently seeing how seemingly impossible that is for Canadians, but that challenge is pure vanilla compared to what Iranians are going through. I really feel for those people.

How anyone can sympathize with Iranians, but not their fellow Canadians, or vice versa, is beyond me. It's heartless.

Believe it or not, I kind of agree with your objection to my post but the Freedom Convoy is an indication that if Trudeau persisted he would get backlash. There's a world of difference between Canadians accepting for a limited time the reduction of their freedom in some areas and Iranians propping up and supporting a mad-crazy theocracy.

[Gian-Luca]

I don't think this has been posted yet, the only thing that is actually newsworthy is that the CSA has apparently signed a huge sponsorship deal with CIBC that hasn't yet been officially announced:

https://www.tsn.ca/Soccer/video/westhead-on-canada-soccer-calling-off-planned-friendly-match-wit~2450787

[Ally McCoist]

Currently watching this and so far a couple great points early on:  

1) Canada's front office should probably work better towards having a divere staff. Not because of some mumbo jumbo "race quota" but rather if let's say they had an Iranian employed at the front office, this person may have had the foresight to stop this from happening in the first place. Also, unrelated, but funny to note how OneSoccer, who's loyal to the CSA, also has these kinds of problems 😂 *ahem*KurtLarson*ahem*.

2) What implications does this fumble have on John Herdman's long-term aspirations with the program? We know that he had left the women's team because he felt he had reached their ceiling. Well... if Canada consistently fails to set up marquee friendlies, wouldn't you think that that could be one criteria for John to determine if he has reached the ceiling on the men's side?

[SoCalTransport]

3 minutes ago, Ally McCoist said:

Currently watching this and so far a couple great points early on:  

1) Canada's front office should probably work better towards having a divere staff. Not because of some mumbo jumbo "race quota" but rather if let's say they had an Iranian employed at the front office, this person may have had the foresight to stop this from happening in the first place. Also, unrelated, but funny to note how OneSoccer, who's loyal to the CSA, also has these kinds of problems 😂 *ahem*KurtLarson*ahem*.

2) What implications does this fumble have on John Herdman's long-term aspirations with the program? We know that he had left the women's team because he felt he had reached their ceiling. Well... if Canada consistently fails to set up marquee friendlies, wouldn't you think that that could be one criteria for John to determine if he has reached the ceiling on the men's side?

I agree the government has to show the cash in the future or this will go downhill very quickly…

[Ally McCoist]

6 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I don't think this has been posted yet, the only thing that is actually newsworthy is that the CSA has apparently signed a huge sponsorship deal with CIBC that hasn't yet been officially announced:

https://www.tsn.ca/Soccer/video/westhead-on-canada-soccer-calling-off-planned-friendly-match-wit~2450787

I mean... I figured there was something going on when they plastered that "CIBC congratulates Canada's men's soccer team on qualifying for the FIFA World Cup 2022" after the Jamaica game 😂

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, nolando said:

I don't recall any connection between Millwall and Jordan, but can find out.

It wasnt Millwall in the case of Jordan.  it was some other team.

[Free kick]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

I don't recall any connection between Millwall and Jordan, but can find out.

maybe it wasnt Jason Jordan and it was some one else.  what I do recall is that Serioux and some other player from the Whitecaps were identified by some Lower div side during one of their pre season friendlies between A league clubs.   Hence not as results of our national team playing against Millwall.  that part i am quite certain about

 

PS; quote from the guardian:

"Millwall really should get away more often. Last month's close-season tournament in Vancouver not only provided the FA Cup finalists with competitive games in a decent environment, it also allowed them to turn up one of the game's most inspired signings since Aston Villa brought Dwight Yorke back from a trip to Tobago 15 years ago.

Adrian Serioux, 25, featured in Team Canada's midfield against the Millwall tourists last month while the midfielder Josh Simpson, 21, appeared at left-back. Both impressed the south Londoners enough for them quickly to agree to pay up Serioux's contract at Toronto Lynx and sound out the University of Portland student before handing both two-year deal"

Serioux throws himself into fray | Football | The Guardian

Serioux Transferred to Millwall - OurSports Central

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Free kick

[narduch]

13 minutes ago, Free kick said:

maybe it wasnt Jason Jordan and it was some one else.  what I do recall is that Serioux and some other player from the Whitecaps were identified by some Lower div side during one of their pre season friendlies between A league clubs.   Hence not as results of our national team playing against Millwall.  that part i am quite certain about

 

PS; quote from the guardian:

"Millwall really should get away more often. Last month's close-season tournament in Vancouver not only provided the FA Cup finalists with competitive games in a decent environment, it also allowed them to turn up one of the game's most inspired signings since Aston Villa brought Dwight Yorke back from a trip to Tobago 15 years ago.

Adrian Serioux, 25, featured in Team Canada's midfield against the Millwall tourists last month while the midfielder Josh Simpson, 21, appeared at left-back. Both impressed the south Londoners enough for them quickly to agree to pay up Serioux's contract at Toronto Lynx and sound out the University of Portland student before handing both two-year deal"

Serioux throws himself into fray | Football | The Guardian

 

 

Dude.

Millwall signed both Simpson and Serioux after that friendly

[narduch]

44 minutes ago, Ally McCoist said:

 

2) What implications does this fumble have on John Herdman's long-term aspirations with the program? We know that he had left the women's team because he felt he had reached their ceiling. Well... if Canada consistently fails to set up marquee friendlies, wouldn't you think that that could be one criteria for John to determine if he has reached the ceiling on the men's side?

I'm not sure why everyone just assumes Herdman's hands are so clean on this debacle.

So this narrative gets created that he is so detailed oriented and he planned everything for WCQ meticulously. But now all of a sudden he had no involvement in setting up this friendly?

 

[Free kick]

alright.   i stand corrected.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

I'm not sure why everyone just assumes Herdman's hands are so clean on this debacle.

So this narrative gets created that he is so detailed oriented and he planned everything for WCQ meticulously. But now all of a sudden he had no involvement in setting up this friendly?

 

My gut feeling is that playing Iran was totally Herdman's idea, but I have trouble casting much blame on him. He's gotten so much right so far. 

[ag futbol]

17 minutes ago, narduch said:

I'm not sure why everyone just assumes Herdman's hands are so clean on this debacle.

So this narrative gets created that he is so detailed oriented and he planned everything for WCQ meticulously. But now all of a sudden he had no involvement in setting up this friendly?

 

I don’t think he’s  100% squeaky clean but I think given all the other good Herdman has done for the program I can look the other way. 

I also think others at the CSA should be more well-versed at navigating government politics and taking care of that piece. Herdman can only know so much. Ultimately someone has to tell him “if you do this, here are the risks” or just outright veto the idea.

But without knowing the back room conversations that were had on this we’re flying blind. Either someone at the CSA fucked up by not asking or someone in the ministry of Sport. Or, the ministry fucked up by not clearly stating the issues (or understanding the issue) when the CSA asked. Or, CSA was advised of the risks and made a stupid gamble.

That’s sort of the core of it. 
 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by ag futbol

[Meepmeep]

20 minutes ago, narduch said:

I'm not sure why everyone just assumes Herdman's hands are so clean on this debacle.

So this narrative gets created that he is so detailed oriented and he planned everything for WCQ meticulously. But now all of a sudden he had no involvement in setting up this friendly?

 

I was always under the assumption that he and his buddy Berhalter had some sort of arrangement as it seemed more than coincidental that were were both playing friendlies against each other's  World Cup opponents.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

But without knowing the back room conversations that were had on this we’re flying blind. Either someone at the CSA fucked up by not asking or someone in the ministry of Sport. Or, the ministry fucked up by not clearly stating the issues (or understanding the issue) when the CSA asked. Or, CSA was advised of the risks and made a stupid gamble.

That’s sort of the core of it. 
 

 

 

I agree with that and the rest of your post (which I cut out), but wanted to add that this context: so long as the optics weren't negative there was no reason not to proceed. There was no fuck up by anyone in that sense. All rules and regulations were being followed. The risks you are speaking about were mostly, if not entirely political.

I will say "mostly" to reserve a small fraction for the possibility of violence breaking out from protests that were planned for the event, even though my personal feeling is the CSA was forced to cancel primarily for reasons of political optics.

Funny enough, if the government had given the victims enough closure we possibly could have moved on to the point where the game could have proceeded. The whole debacle seemed to be swept under the rug, which is where I am sure the government prefers to keep it (hence the pressure on the CSA from them to cancel the game). 

[ensco]

Putting aside the issue of blame, we have some obvious things to think about:

It looks like our lack of a large stadium with grass, in a big market that can pay the prices that can support the economics of multi-million dollar appearance fees, matters. So if we want to play the biggest teams, we will have to go to them, or to the promoters venues (eg Korea or similar), and we need to not kid ourselves about that.

I also think the desire to rotate venues hurt us.  Don't know if we should do something about that or not. It is not hard to imagine that we could have easily had Ecuador in Toronto.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by ensco

[Bison44]

Herdman has been at this with CSA for what 11 years, NewZealand before that...he hasnt come up against this before? I call BS, if you took 20 random V's off this site, 1-2 of them would have known this could blow up in our faces. Somebody would have asked if this is a good idea, and somebody pushed it through..even though there was a risk.  This is a huge F#ck up, fines, loss of international trust, reputation....not to mention the lost 3-4million in revenue, black mark when it comes to recruiting duals and a lost chance to prep for WC.  

Something that hasnt been brought up much is that Iran has historically had hard times getting good friendlies.  Seems like everyone else knew this could be a landmine eh?  100% the PM/Gov threw the team under the bus to avoid bad press from pissed off CDN/Iranians protests.  But they could have seen that coming too if even 1 guy on that staff was paying attention to the way the wind was blowing.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

35 minutes ago, narduch said:

I'm not sure why everyone just assumes Herdman's hands are so clean on this debacle.

So this narrative gets created that he is so detailed oriented and he planned everything for WCQ meticulously. But now all of a sudden he had no involvement in setting up this friendly?

 

When Adam delved and Eve span...

[Corazon]

2 minutes ago, ensco said:

Putting aside the issue of blame, we have some obvious things to think about:

It looks like our lack of a large stadium with grass, in a big market that can pay the prices that can support the economics of multi-million dollar appearance fees, matters. So if we want to play the biggest teams, we will have to go to them, or to the promoters venues (eg Korea or similar), and we need to not kid ourselves about that.

I also think the desire to rotate venues is hurting us.  It is not hard to imagine that we could have easily had Ecuador in Toronto.

 

This should not be ignored.  Ecuador was willing to put together a friendly in Toronto on short notice vs Iran before what I can only assume was inevitably scrapped due to the politics of Iran.  At this point last week, maybe CSA should have thought that perhaps their game would also be cancelled and start planning on an Ecuador friendly in Toronto.  It seems like Ecuador was willing to play in Toronto and on short notice.  

Obviously this would have caused a bit of a headache and additional funding but to me it seems like it was a missed opportunity.  Perhaps the dates didn't align for Ecuador and/or Canada with Nations League though.