CANCELLED WC Prep Match #1: Canada vs Iran - Sunday, June 5 BC Place, Vancouver

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

People would eat up anything involving Ukraine at this point. Certainly in Vancouver. 

Dinamo Kiev are probably a sufficient opponent in terms of talent.

But man, I wouldn't want to see that as someone who wants the politics separated from sport. It would be a bummer to play a club, that's so lame, but if we are forced I would rather us play the Vancouver Whitecaps.

Cavallini can stay White and Blue for that one

The whole bias against playing a club, or playing a region, is very strong in Canada basically because of a lack of experience on the ground. 

I live in Catalonia and have seen rivals such as Bulgaria with Penev and Stoichkov, Argentina, Brazil, play the region I live in. With a competent team made up of first tier players in top 5 leagues. And very competitive matches. Canada despises such things out of pure ignorance, thinking it might look bad. 

Same with national teams playing clubs, it has happened dozens of times in world football. I happened to be at the first of these mentioned in this article, in the best section near the presidential box as my wife coordinated the volunteer corps for the Barça centennial

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2012/may/25/joy-of-six-club-country-friendlies

[ag futbol]

18 minutes ago, Metro said:

Thank you for this.  Couldn't have written it better myself.

From what we know (which I admit is not much), if the CSA suffer monetary damages over this, it is very possible they would have a valid, legal claim against the Government.

The practicality is, you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe CSA has a case, maybe they don’t. But I guarantee nobody brings one forward because it’s a self defeating exercise 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, nfitz said:

They must be buying tickets from a different airline than I am! I'm sure there are incurred costs already. Not to mention opportunity costs.

 

I'd have assumed that some of the $400K would already have been paid. But I'm guessing.

So you don't think Iran buys cancellation insurance through their official travel agent?

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The whole bias against playing a club, or playing a region, is very strong in Canada basically because of a lack of experience on the ground. 

I live in Catalonia and have seen rivals such as Bulgaria with Penev and Stoichkov, Argentina, Brazil, play the region I live in. With a competent team made up of first tier players in top 5 leagues. And very competitive matches. Canada despises such things out of pure ignorance, thinking it might look bad. 

Same with national teams playing clubs, it has happened dozens of times in world football. I happened to be at the first of these mentioned in this article, in the best section near the presidential box as my wife coordinated the volunteer corps for the Barça centennial

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2012/may/25/joy-of-six-club-country-friendlies

lol why is it ignorance? Preference (or a lack thereof) for such things doesn't have to be logical. 

[thehabsfan]

IMO, this game wasn’t cancelled because we were playing Iran.  It was cancelled because we were paying Iran to play here.  The optics of actually paying Iran to play in Canada are bad.

[narduch]

 

[footballfreak]

50 minutes ago, BigMo said:

Canada Soccer is powerless in deciding whether or not they participate in the World Cup? If you agree with the prevailing logic that playing with a national team is an endorsement of their politics, then the Qatar topic is not really whataboutism.

Tickets for the Iran game sold rapidly in part because Iranian-Canadians themselves bought tickets. Naive to think their community is in unison on this issue or on support for their national team. 

Either you make a distinction between politics and sport and accept that international football will have you play countries with Governments with less than savoury records or you reject that distinction and apply it consistently. 

Canada didn’t award the World Cup to Qatar. They have zero (or near zero) impact on the vote. If Canada had been drawn against Iran, or Russia, or Saudi Arabia we would undoubtedly have played them. There would be no (or limited) backlash because most people understand there’s a difference between competing in an international tournament and paying a pariah state $400k to come play a friendly in a city that mourned it’s dead 2 years ago.

This nonsense of “either we do everything perfect ethically or nothing matters” is such a lazy, bullshit argument.

Ex: I’m going to make an assumption that you have some ethical standards that you hold yourself to in your personal life. That you generally treat people as you would like to be treated, don’t kick puppies, etc. Yet you choose to exploit the environment and your fellow man by using a computing device made from unsustainable mining and labour practices around the world? Curious. If you’re willing to buy a device, why not go whole hog and roll coal while kicking puppies at blind orphans? Why even try to do the right thing once if you can’t do the right thing every time?

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

lol why is it ignorance? Preference (or a lack thereof) for such things doesn't have to be logical. 

It does not have to be ignorance, but in Canada's case it most definitely is. Because we are bumpkins at this, with no experience and no mental agility. As proven. If you have been around and have nothing to prove, like Brazil or Argentina, you are not a fraction as hung-up as a national programme like Canada's which is inferiority complex plus amateurism as your daily bread.

I also saw the Espanyol centenary, for the same reasons, vs. Argentina, coached by Bielsa, that same year in fact

https://elpais.com/diario/1999/11/15/deportes/942620426_850215.htmlt.

We despise such things like our NT playing a club or similar in Canada because we think it will make us look bad, when it is the contrary if you understand the game. An alternative like this should have been considered out of respect for the 50,000 who have bought tickets to see Canada play a decent rival.

[Gian-Luca]

The last time I recall us playing a club team was circa 2003 or so when we played San Jose, although I think that match abandoned with us in the lead because of lightning storm. I seem to recall it was either a Yallop farewell to SJ match or a Yallop introduction to the Cdn. national team match, or maybe both...

[narduch]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

The last time I recall us playing a club team was circa 2003 or so when we played San Jose, although I think that match abandoned with us in the lead because of lightning storm. I seem to recall it was either a Yallop farewell to SJ match or a Yallop introduction to the Cdn. national team match, or maybe both...

We also played Millwall. 

Which led to Serioux and Simpson signing with them

[Shway]

this is embarassing lol....ahhh man....sigh, and then tears. 

The timeline is sad, we went from:
- the phones are ringing off the hook, the brazils are inquiring to play us
- suddenly the messages that were left were either late to respond and everyone else is booked for friendlies
- despacito starts playing and we last minute book and pay to play Iran in Vancouver
- Lot's of legitimate political noise happens, and the game gets cancelled.

The CSA is a joke.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Shway

[CCrTFC]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

 

Money talks. I'm certain they can find one, they just need to throw money at the problem. Argentina is now playing Estonia in Spain on June 5th but I'm liking the Ecuador suggestion. 

[Shway]

If we play a club team, in 2022. Would be an absolute embarrassment again unless it's Real Madrid, Barcelona, or Man City. 
 

We're fucking going to the World Cup, not the Caribbean Cup.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Shway

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, CCrTFC said:

Money talks. I'm certain they can find one, they just need to throw money at the problem. Argentina is now playing Estonia in Spain on June 5th but I'm liking the Ecuador suggestion. 

I don't have faith in the CSA

[Califax]

Just now, CCrTFC said:

Money talks. I'm certain they can find one, they just need to throw money at the problem. Argentina is now playing Estonia in Spain on June 5th but I'm liking the Ecuador suggestion. 

Wonder what Estonia had to pay for that? 

I'm jealous of that. It's almost closer for me to go to Spain than Vancouver anyway. 

Meanwhile:

[PendezLeBurke]

1 hour ago, Colonel Green said:

Iranian recording artists are not a national team; the latter are national representatives, the former are not.

No, Trudeau was asked about it because it was controversial. He didn’t start the controversy.

What “reasons” do you think he didn’t give? He disagreed with the decision for the same reason the protestors did.

He didn’t throw the CSA under the bus, as that would only apply if he had had some involvement in the initial decision. Trudeau isn’t under any obligation to defend the CSA.

There actually was a fair bit of controversy around that, and a diplomatic boycott.

 

Stop it. You're being far too reasonable!

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It does not have to be ignorance, but in Canada's case it most definitely is. Because we are bumpkins at this, with no experience and no mental agility. As proven. If you have been around and have nothing to prove, like Brazil or Argentina, you are not a fraction as hung-up as a national programme like Canada's which is inferiority complex plus amateurism as your daily bread.

I also saw the Espanyol centenary, for the same reasons, vs. Argentina, coached by Bielsa, that same year in fact

https://elpais.com/diario/1999/11/15/deportes/942620426_850215.htmlt.

We despise such things like our NT playing a club or similar in Canada because we think it will make us look bad, when it is the contrary if you understand the game. An alternative like this should have been considered out of respect for the 50,000 who have bought tickets to see Canada play a decent rival.

You can sit on your high horse in Catalonia and look down at the rest of us "bumkins", but the reality is we are not Brazil or Argentina, who have nothing to prove. We are Canada and we have EVERYTHING to prove, so yeah it will make us look bad, actually.

That being said, in my opinion the opponent being a club doesn't matter at all, because it's a game of soccer.

I still don't prefer it though, and that doesn't make me or anyone else that feels the same way a bumkin or something of an unsophisticated soccer fan who cannot appreciate the joy that is club versus national team.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, Shway said:

If we play a club team, in 2022. Would be an absolute embarrassment again unless it's Real Madrid, Barcelona, or Man City. 
 

We're fucking going to the World Cup, not the Caribbean Cup.

This is the inferiority complex attitude I am talking about. Misplaced pride and lack of experience in the world of football.

If you are really serious of prepping the team, you could play a J-League team or Liga MX or even one of the teams about to promote to top flight out of a 2nd division. Or one that may miss. And they'd play their asses off and be just as hard as Iran, who were not even planning to spend enough days in Van to get past jetlag.

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, thehabsfan said:

IMO, this game wasn’t cancelled because we were playing Iran.  It was cancelled because we were paying Iran to play here.  The optics of actually paying Iran to play in Canada are bad.

Sure, but realistically you can't play teams for free. International soccer doesn't work that way.

I'm sure that important context was omitted from the plethora of negative articles from our media outlets. 

[theaub]

Don't see how Ecuador is an option.  They play on the 2nd, 5th and 11th and we're scheduled to play on the 9th and 13th.

[canucksfan]

9 minutes ago, CCrTFC said:

Money talks. I'm certain they can find one, they just need to throw money at the problem. Argentina is now playing Estonia in Spain on June 5th but I'm liking the Ecuador suggestion. 

Ecuador already has matches booked on June 2, 5, and 11.

We have games on 9 and 13, they're not a possibility.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You can sit on your high horse in Catalonia and look down at the rest of us "bumkins", but the reality is we are not Brazil or Argentina, who have nothing to prove. We are Canada and we have EVERYTHING to prove, so yeah it will make us look bad, actually.

That being said, in my opinion the opponent being a club doesn't matter at all, because it's a game of soccer.

I still don't prefer it though, and that doesn't make me or anyone else that feels the same way a bumkin or something of an unsophisticated soccer fan who cannot appreciate the joy that is club versus national team.

Playing Cruz Azul or Vissel Kobe would not make us look bad, it is just the loser mentality worried about looking bad that gets what we get: a NT that makes a total ass of itself with the blessing of certain fans. 

[theaub]

The only NT option I see is Bolivia, who are not scheduled to play any games presumably because they have absolutely zero interest in doing so.

e: Panama is also an option, although considering they're playing two matches in Panama City on the 2nd/9th that would probably have to be a neutral site game.  Which is also logistically difficult now that we are playing in Vancouver on the 9th...

Edited May 26, 2022 by theaub

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Playing Cruz Azul or Vissel Kobe would not make us look bad, it is just the loser mentality worried about looking bad that gets what we get: a NT that makes a total ass of itself with the blessing of certain fans. 

Do you think it would be okay for Spain to play Bayern Munich, PSG or Man City? 
(You'll say no in your head, but yes here.)

As a rising nation with elite talent, this wouldn't be a good look regardless of the competition. 
I would prefer we played Catolonia or Basque or whoever, playing a club team has nothing to do with inferiority and more about simply "not being a good look".

Tell me when was the last time a national team played a club team (youth teams don't count)
 

[Obinna]

Just now, Unnamed Trialist said:

Playing Cruz Azul or Vissel Kobe would not make us look bad, it is just the loser mentality worried about looking bad that gets what we get: a NT that makes a total ass of itself with the blessing of certain fans. 

I am not saying we shouldn't play a club. All I ever said is that it would be lame. You then quickly came to tell  @Shwayand I that opinion is borne out of an inferiority complex lol

Here's one thing missing from your take (which Shway kinda touched on). When Brazil and Argentina schedule friendlies against clubs, they do so because they want to, and do so from a position of strength. Canada would be doing that from a position of desperation. 

It would look bad because it would be an emergency solution to mega fuck up of our own making.