CANCELLED WC Prep Match #1: Canada vs Iran - Sunday, June 5 BC Place, Vancouver

[JAVIERF]

Just now, ssk said:

Translated it for you (and my rapgenius notes in brackets). Have to get back to work but this was bothering me. Last two posts in https://www.canadiansoccernews.com/forums/topic/78422-canada-pre-world-cup-friendlies-thread-news-gossip-and-speculation/page/10/ also help. Still doesn't make total sense but I feel a bit less anxious now.

 

 

 

 

Yeap man, that's what I meant after all.

The son of  Pierre so much into football, twitter, visiting players etc a LA Macron etc

Complaining about the Iran meeting which could have consequences with FIFA Since political leaders cannot set any agenda in footballing stuff.

Then pushing our President to play Messi and the team in Montreal with that milk company  involved somehow in the arrangement. 

[rydermike]

I'll start off by saying I'm not fully versed in the whole Canada-Iran political issues. I'm trying to look at this from a neutral lens (ignoring my political support) as to why he said what he said. 

to me it seems Trudeau basically had to answer the way he did. It's not like he made the comment out of the blue. He was asked by a reporter about it and since he's been taking on an 'oppose Iran' position, he has to take the same position on sport. Otherwise his opponents (and supporters) would raise comments about it about some kind of "sports bias" and ignoring his country's interests because sports. Instead the opponents can only sprout a 'it's only sports' line instead of "you don't care what Iran did to us'. Theyd say something against his comment no matter what, so Which position is better for him politically? To me it's the response he gave. 

This isn't him trying to run the soccer association. This is Trudeau answering a question he knew he was going to get, in the only way he could to show consistency with previous actions against Iran. Before I even heard his comment, when I read that Trudeau commented on the game, I had an idea of what his response would be and lo and behold it was basically what I expected. Its what he *had* to say. 

[Sal333]

9 hours ago, rydermike said:

I'll start off by saying I'm not fully versed in the whole Canada-Iran political issues. I'm trying to look at this from a neutral lens (ignoring my political support) as to why he said what he said. 

to me it seems Trudeau basically had to answer the way he did. It's not like he made the comment out of the blue. He was asked by a reporter about it and since he's been taking on an 'oppose Iran' position, he has to take the same position on sport. Otherwise his opponents (and supporters) would raise comments about it about some kind of "sports bias" and ignoring his country's interests because sports. Instead the opponents can only sprout a 'it's only sports' line instead of "you don't care what Iran did to us'. Theyd say something against his comment no matter what, so Which position is better for him politically? To me it's the response he gave. 

This isn't him trying to run the soccer association. This is Trudeau answering a question he knew he was going to get, in the only way he could to show consistency with previous actions against Iran. Before I even heard his comment, when I read that Trudeau commented on the game, I had an idea of what his response would be and lo and behold it was basically what I expected. Its what he *had* to say. 

One thing everyone is forgetting to mention. The Iranian team needed visas to play this game in Canada. Guess which government okayed the granting of those visas?

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

Yeap man, that's what I meant after all.

The son of  Pierre so much into football, twitter, visiting players etc a LA Macron etc

Complaining about the Iran meeting which could have consequences with FIFA Since political leaders cannot set any agenda in footballing stuff.

Then pushing our President to play Messi and the team in Montreal with that milk company  involved somehow in the arrangement. 

So lucky you speak Spanish. 

[narduch]

The visa application would have happened at a bureaucratic level.

It would be insane if our PM or any other MP had that level of input on such matters. Massive government over reach

The visas were approved because there was no reason not to

[Sal333]

8 minutes ago, narduch said:

The visa application would have happened at a bureaucratic level.

It would be insane if our PM or any other MP had that level of input on such matters. Massive government over reach

The visas were approved because there was no reason not to

And of course this prime minister has never been known to over reach, right? He was definitely told of the visa applications. Bureaucrats don't stick out their necks.

[Redpunkfiddle]

3 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

And of course this prime minister has never been known to over reach, right? He was definitely told of the visa applications. Bureaucrats don't stick out their necks.

“Definitely”

[narduch]

6 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

And of course this prime minister has never been known to over reach, right? He was definitely told of the visa applications. Bureaucrats don't stick out their necks.

You don't know that.

He was asked a surprising question by the press and took the easy way out by throwing the CSA under the bus.

Having followed him as PM it's highly doubtful he cares about the minutiae of governing to know that level of detail.

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

And of course this prime minister has never been known to over reach, right? He was definitely told of the visa applications. Bureaucrats don't stick out their necks.

Ya no… PMO is not involved in the day to day workings of the bureaucracy.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

And of course this prime minister has never been known to over reach, right? He was definitely told of the visa applications. Bureaucrats don't stick out their necks.

At maximum the competent civil servant mentioned it to her supervisor, who at most made a comment to a low level ministry official. Who said if you're following the rules you really need not bother us here, we have much bigger problems. 

[Sal333]

8 hours ago, narduch said:

You don't know that.

He was asked a surprising question by the press and took the easy way out by throwing the CSA under the bus.

Having followed him as PM it's highly doubtful he cares about the minutiae of governing to know that level of detail.

You can't tell me on the one hand this was a serious breach by the CSA and then on the other hand tell me a bureaucrat was oblivious to it . The government worker who was asked to issue the visas - wanting to protect his ass - went to his superior. His superior just as protective of his rear end did the same.  Even if the call for approval stopped somewhere in the chain of command short of the PMO, it means the official who issued the okay either is an idiot or didn't think it was a problem. Either way it reflects badly on the PMO not the CSA. So that reply by Trudeau belies his ineptness as a leader.

 

[JFL19]

Anyone have an idea when we should be hearing about whos on the roster for these games?

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, JFL19 said:

Anyone have an idea when we should be hearing about whos on the roster for these games?

Monday some say. Canada always releases late but I bet most of the squad is set. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 hours ago, Obinna said:

I don't think any of those things. What I do think is that you saying it was "likely" brokered sounds like people saying 9/11 was "likely" an inside job, or the 2020 USA election was "likely" rigged, both cases where researchers claim to have identified "all the components of a coverup", as you just put it. 

I know 9/11 wasn't an inside job because part of it was organized near where I live.

Not all suspected likelihoods have the same meaning, @Obinna. If you're afraid of fanatical conspiracy theories, that's a good thing. But since this case is fresh, no explanation has been officially accepted and attempted investigations have been thwarted, we're not talking about going against any standard, logical explanation. 

The most cockamamie explanation, curiously enough, is the Russian one. 

 

[Colonel Green]

3 hours ago, Sal333 said:

You can't tell me on the one hand this was a serious breach by the CSA and then on the other hand tell me a bureaucrat was oblivious to it. The government worker who was asked to issue the visas - wanting to protect his ass - went to his superior. His superior just as protective of his rear end did the same.  Even if the call for approval stopped somewhere in the chain of command short of the PMO, it means the official who issued the okay either is an idiot or didn't think it was a problem. Either way it reflects badly on the PMO not the CSA. So that reply by Trudeau belies his ineptness as a leader.

Er, no.

The argument that people have made that this was a bad idea on the CSA's part is not premised on it being a "serious breach" of some official policy. There are many things that are not against the rules that are nevertheless bad optics and/or bad ideas, and for many people this is one of them.

The issuing of visas for sporting events is an ordinary bureaucratic function. The Iranian national team would have met all the criteria for issuance, nobody would have needed to CYA by going higher up the chain. This sort of thing wouldn't have reached the ears of anyone near the departmental leadership, let alone the PMO.

[Sal333]

34 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Er, no.

The argument that people have made that this was a bad idea on the CSA's part is not premised on it being a "serious breach" of some official policy. There are many things that are not against the rules that are nevertheless bad optics and/or bad ideas, and for many people this is one of them.

The issuing of visas for sporting events is an ordinary bureaucratic function. The Iranian national team would have met all the criteria for issuance, nobody would have needed to CYA by going higher up the chain. This sort of thing wouldn't have reached the ears of anyone near the departmental leadership, let alone the PMO.

So the implication of your scenario is that visas are simply rubber stamped. If that's the case why bother with visas at all?

[JBD]

10 hours ago, JFL19 said:

Anyone have an idea when we should be hearing about whos on the roster for these games?

I mean, they’re not gonna bring a skeleton squad to play a warm up against the number 21 team in the world. 

[Colonel Green]

12 hours ago, Sal333 said:

So the implication of your scenario is that visas are simply rubber stamped. If that's the case why bother with visas at all?

Visa-free travel happens between countries with a certain degree of trust and security cooperation (as well as sufficient certainty that it's not just a means of surreptitious immigration). Largely not something that exists between Canada and Iran, hence visas.

In this case the Iranian national team would have all the documentation that they were invited by the CSA to play in a FIFA-approved international soccer match, which is the sort of thing that is granted as a matter of course.

[ag futbol]

On 5/21/2022 at 8:28 AM, Sal333 said:

And of course this prime minister has never been known to over reach, right? He was definitely told of the visa applications. Bureaucrats don't stick out their necks.

I would be surprised if he actually was informed. 

Let’s call this what it is: a potentially low-level event and exactly the sort of thing the Prime Minister’s Office shields the PM from for good reason. There was no upside to the PM knowing in advance and ultimately making a decision before everything hits the press.

He jumps in and cancels the game, it’s spun as 1) overreach and determental to Canada’s World Cup prep, 2) taking away an event where Iranians in North America (who are very much anti-Iran government) can get together and feel apart of their culture. It then also leads to all sorts of follow up questions about who we can play in sports and where the line is. 

If he directly allows the game he’s in the same spot he is now but worse because he then has more onus to backup his logic. 

Which brings me to the bang-obvious alternative….

He finds out after the fact, he gets to professionally second guess the process if questioned by the press.  Even better, gets to make his opinion in whatever direction the wind is blowing. 

I wrote this a few pages ago but let me say it again: this government could care less about Iran and is largely principal free on this front. They just don’t want to be seen as such because it’s politically awkward. 

Nobody is saying shit about Canada being a laundry mat for dirty cash from everywhere (including Iran). That, in practical terms, is a much bigger issue than a stupid friendly.

Edited May 22, 2022 by ag futbol

[ensco]

^Ag Futbol both sums it up and hits nail on the head. They won’t do what really must be done to get justice for the victims families, or many other things, so instead, we'll get virtue signalling. It's an epidemic on both the left and the right.

Spare a thought for the Iranian players, who are all pawns in this. They have tough lives. 

Separately: Taremi is in form, he scored two for Porto yesterday in the Portuguese Cup final.

Edited May 23, 2022 by ensco

[Unnamed Trialist]

Looks like Iran-Ecuador, planned for BMO, is being cancelled. Wonder if there was political pressure to see this not go through and shorten the Iranian stay.

https://www.persianfootball.com/news/2022/05/22/iran-ecuador-friendly-match-on-verge-of-cancelation-report/

Ecuador also seems to confirm this, and reconfirm they'll be playing Mali in Hartford CT on Saturday 11th, which was their previous plan.

Also in Iran news, they are doing a short camp in Turkey, starting May 30, before flying to Vancouver for this match from Istanbul. They'll likely be jet-lagged and not entirely ready for us. If we win we pick up FIFA ranking points.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[SpursFlu]

I thinkits kinda funny that the logic for Vancouver not hosting the World Cup was the security cost and "concern" for holding what was 3 or 4 games. Here we have an equally sold out, international game at BC Place being throw together in a matter of weeks and apparently all decision makers barely even knew it was happening. Where's the BC government who tried to kibosh the WC in all this? It all just makes me shake my head

Edited May 23, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Obinna]

Okay so Ecuador and Mali cancelled their friendly and Ecuador picked up Iran and that got cancelled so they went back to playing Mali? Why did they cancel Mali in the first place? Did they tell them to kick rocks because they had a chance to play Iran, a world cup team? 

[JamboAl]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Okay so Ecuador and Mali cancelled their friendly and Ecuador picked up Iran and that got cancelled so they went back to playing Mali? Why did they cancel Mali in the first place? Did they tell them to kick rocks because they had a chance to play Iran, a world cup team? 

This is all very strange to me.  They have a AFCON match 48 hrs before at South Sudan and that’s why Mali withdrew.  Now they are going to have their player go all the way to Hartford to play Ecuador 2 days after the South Sudan game.  Ridiculous!

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

This is all very strange to me.

I heard that Ecuador were going to play Cape Verde in the USA instead and that the Mali match was indeed cancelled but the rumours change so quickly.