CANCELLED WC Prep Match #1: Canada vs Iran - Sunday, June 5 BC Place, Vancouver

[Obinna]

You guys are way too obsessed with Jordan Peterson for people who claim not to be fans lol

 

[El Hombre]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You guys are way too obsessed with Jordan Peterson for people who claim not to be fans lol

 

I'm not a fan of car crashes, but I will look and comment when I drive by one.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I'm not a fan of car crashes, but I will look and comment when I drive by one.

Then you may as well share your car crash commentary in this thread, because it's just about as relevant as Jordan Peterson is.  

[N1ckbr0wn]

….. anyways which way would you guys prefer to line up? Tbh I’m always a stickler for keeping players where they belong (Davies plays best coming in full speed from a wide position tbh, tries to do too much when more central IMO) 

[RS]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You guys are way too obsessed with Jordan Peterson for people who claim not to be fans lol

 

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I heard Jordan Peterson bought it.

[narduch]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You guys are way too obsessed with Jordan Peterson for people who claim not to be fans lol

 

His fans are way too obsessed with the fact that any one with any brains thinks he is a fucking idiot.

[Obinna]

Just now, N1ckbr0wn said:

….. anyways which way would you guys prefer to line up? Tbh I’m always a stickler for keeping players where they belong (Davies plays best coming in full speed from a wide position tbh, tries to do too much when more central IMO) 

I would like to see Hoilett play more in the hole behind the strikers. He was very good there during the gold cup, and he no longer has the pace to blow past defenders at this level. However, he's great with the ball in tight spaces, and does really well to dictate the play for us. So I think putting him there at some point during the Iran match would be good for us, just to get him more reps for us in that role.

[N1ckbr0wn]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

I would like to see Hoilett play more in the hole behind the strikers. He was very good there during the gold cup, and he no longer has the pace to blow past defenders at this level. However, he's great with the ball in tight spaces, and does really well to dictate the play for us. So I think putting him there at some point during the Iran match would be good for us, just to get him more reps for us in that role.

I really like JH there as well. So silky in tight spaces, has a great quick release shot with range, and pretty impressive play making as well. Which is needed with players like David and Larin to be successful 

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

….. anyways which way would you guys prefer to line up? Tbh I’m always a stickler for keeping players where they belong (Davies plays best coming in full speed from a wide position tbh, tries to do too much when more central IMO) 

Additionally, I would say that each of those formations are first choice, one could argue. I do wonder though if there'd be a few new faces thrown in from the start, given this is a friendly? Ugbo for instance is one name we have been clamouring for. Cavallini is beginning to hit form as well. It wouldn't surprise me if we started those two and kept David and Larin on the bench to start. It's not like the points matter, this is a learning opportunity first and foremost. 

[N1ckbr0wn]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

Additionally, I would say that each of those formations are first choice, one could argue. I do wonder though if there'd be a few new faces thrown in from the start, given this is a friendly? Ugbo for instance is one name we have been clamouring for. Cavallini is beginning to hit form as well. It wouldn't surprise me if we started those two and kept David and Larin on the bench to start. It's not like the points matter, this is a learning opportunity first and foremost. 

Tbh I think we see a lineup that’s as close as possible to our best XI for the Iran game, more rotation and experimentation in the other 2. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by N1ckbr0wn

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

I really like JH there as well. So silky in tight spaces, has a great quick release shot with range, and pretty impressive play making as well. Which is needed with players like David and Larin to be successful 

He's a player several years ago who I thought was destined to play infield as a 10 later in his career. You're right, his shooting from range is another reason why he can be good for us from the middle areas. For years he's been picking up those positions for us anyways, regardless of what flank he's started the match from. 

[Obinna]

Just now, N1ckbr0wn said:

Tbh I think we see a lineup that’s as close as possible to our best XI for the Iran game, more rotation and experimentation in the other 2. 

That's probably likely given the strength of the opponent. We can also say that Honduras away in theory should be the tougher match, so maybe we start the best players on Sunday, then rotate for Curacao on Thursday and keep David, Larin, etc. fresh for the away trip.

[MtlMario]

Could we please get back on topic and stop talking about the game.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, MtlMario said:

Could we please get back on topic and stop talking about the game.

The importance of ........

[InglewoodJack]

I’d be interested in seeing Ugbo start over Larin, especially in a low stakes game like Iran. Perhaps he’s better suited against curaçao since you may want to roll with the same lineup you’ll field in the WC against Iran, but I really want to see extended minutes with Ugbo and David up front

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

I’d be interested in seeing Ugbo start over Larin, especially in a low stakes game like Iran. Perhaps he’s better suited against curaçao since you may want to roll with the same lineup you’ll field in the WC against Iran, but I really want to see extended minutes with Ugbo and David up front

I would like to see this as well. I agree with Nick to an extent that we may just throw out our best guys, but I also think you want to use the friendly to test things you're experimenting with, such as an Ugbo David partnership. There are no points on the line against Iran, so that's perhaps the game to do it. And, if you're goal is to test that partnership to see how it works in practice, instead of theory, you may as well do it against a WC caliber team. 

[InglewoodJack]

19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I would like to see this as well. I agree with Nick to an extent that we may just throw out our best guys, but I also think you want to use the friendly to test things you're experimenting with, such as an Ugbo David partnership. There are no points on the line against Iran, so that's perhaps the game to do it. And, if you're goal is to test that partnership to see how it works in practice, instead of theory, you may as well do it against a WC caliber team. 

At the same time, Herdman probably wants to test his WC game plan out which i imagine consists of Larin and David up front. Or maybe Herdman has been watching Ugbo and feels that he’s ready for a bigger NT role too.

[BuzzAndSting]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:46 PM, SpursFlu said:

I do.. and? 

“He's never been tough on Iran, not publicly or privately.“

[red card]

6 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

An FYI for greater context for those not in the GTA is that the Toronto Star is often dubbed the "Toronto Red Star" by detractors for a perceived leftist/Liberal party of Canada bias, so the poll results among its readership are not surprising given the Liberal leader's highly publicized condemnation of the match. If the poll had been held the day after the match was announced rather than the day the PM spouted off on it, I suspect the poll results would be different, but of course we'll never know that now.

I also wonder how the question of "Would you prefer Canada play Iran, or no World Cup-calibre opposition at all to prepare for the World Cup?" might go down....

Nothing much to do with being left. The consensus view is that Iran is a bottom quartile nation that Canada should have limited interactions with.

Most of the Western right want to be more antagonistic with Iran. Trump tore up the Iran nuclear deal that Obama signed onto. Then he ordered the killing of the top Iranian general that led to flight 752 being shot down by mistake.

The coverage about Canada playing Iran across all types of major media has also favoured the emotional component of the familial grief and the bully pulpit of politicians of all stripes against the match. If a sports component is included, it is a from a professor who tend to be more familiar with Olympics style sportwashing. 

No mention is made that the match is likely to sell out - meaning there is another side of the story from the Canadian soccer and North American Persian community. The only counter view noted is Canada Soccer's statement.

[Gian-Luca]

2 minutes ago, red card said:

Nothing much to do with being left. The consensus view is that Iran is a bottom quartile nation that Canada should have limited interactions with.

Most of the Western right want to be more antagonistic with Iran. Trump tore up the Iran nuclear deal that Obama signed onto. Then he ordered the killing of the top Iranian general that led to flight 752 being shot down by mistake.

The coverage about Canada playing Iran across all types of major media has also favoured the emotional component of the familial grief and the bully pulpit of politicians of all stripes against the match. If a sports component is included, it is a from a professor who tend to be more familiar with Olympics style sportwashing. 

No mention is made that the match is likely to sell out - meaning there is another side of the story from the Canadian soccer and North American Persian community. The only counter view noted is Canada Soccer's statement.

I was referring to the traditional readership of that paper, which tends to be Liberal party supporters and has been for longer than I can remember (having grown up in a politically-active Liberal-supporting household, I can testify to this), which I was doing for the benefit of a poster who I understand is from Alberta (and thus might not have been aware). They would thus be likely to be supportive of the Liberal party leader's ill-advised condemnation, I suspect that would be the case even if matter was being provided with more context than a short CSA response can provide although obviously that can never be proven now. However, it's notable that the Toronto Star version of the article on their website is credited to the Associated Press and doesn't include the criticism of Trudeau by the leading of the Persian group or the CSA's (or Cavallini's) defense: https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2022/05/17/canada-prime-minister-critical-of-iran-in-match-vancouver.html

By comparison, the National Post, a right-leaning newspaper (which I'm assuming will not be a controversial statement to make), ran this version of Neil Davidson's article that I've not seen anywhere else (it seems to be the "fullest" version): https://nationalpost.com/news/local-news/iran-vancouver-soccer-friendly-trudeau/wcm/16056376-114b-4048-8f31-73d1aa8fc376

Notably, it contains the following sections not included in the Star's version:

A Metro man who lost friends when Iran shot down a Ukrainian airliner is rejecting calls from some Iranian Canadians to cancel a friendly match between the Canadian and Iranian World Cup soccer teams in Vancouver.

“I do not mix those guys playing for the national team with the Iranian government,” said Navid Sorkhou. “They’re proud football players and we shouldn’t punish them for playing.”

Sorkhou — whose friend and fellow engineer Ardalan Ebnoddin-Hamidi died with his wife and son on Flight 752 — is going to the game himself.

Sorkhou thinks the game is a certain sellout because of the big Iranian community in the Lower Mainland, many of whom are excited to see the team play here. “I have no doubt that they will be welcome in Canada,” he said.

“There will be people protesting,” he predicted. “They will want to have their voices heard by the Iranian government.”

But Sorkhou sees that as a good thing. “It could spark something in Iran,” he said, noting the expatriate community here is mostly opposed to the Iranian government.

and this from the leader of the protest/calls to cancel the game:

“We want the (Canadian) government to take them to International Court. And instead of that, we get humiliated by them. I feel like I’ve been stabbed in the back. … After 28 months we don’t see any sign of seeking justice here. We don’t see sign of taking Iran to any international forum. And instead of that they invite the (Iran) soccer team here.”

Obviously the protest leader is wrongly assuming that its Trudeau who is responsible, rather than presumably John Herdman, for inviting the Iranian team team here, but its clear where his ire lies - at the Canadian government and its leader. Its not surprising to me that this criticism of Trudeau appeared in the National Post version of the article but not the Star version. That just historically tends to be the way these papers run.

I don't think either (or any) paper is "better" than the other in this regard, they are both guided by internal agendas. I have a friend who works at the Toronto Star as a reporter/article writer who I shall not name lest I get him in trouble, but he's mentioned many times that this is the case, even if it wasn't apparent from the outside.

[Obinna]

30 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I was referring to the traditional readership of that paper, which tends to be Liberal party supporters and has been for longer than I can remember (having grown up in a politically-active Liberal-supporting household, I can testify to this), which I was doing for the benefit of a poster who I understand is from Alberta (and thus might not have been aware). They would thus be likely to be supportive of the Liberal party leader's ill-advised condemnation, I suspect that would be the case even if matter was being provided with more context than a short CSA response can provide although obviously that can never be proven now. However, it's notable that the Toronto Star version of the article on their website is credited to the Associated Press and doesn't include the criticism of Trudeau by the leading of the Persian group or the CSA's (or Cavallini's) defense: https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2022/05/17/canada-prime-minister-critical-of-iran-in-match-vancouver.html

By comparison, the National Post, a right-leaning newspaper (which I'm assuming will not be a controversial statement to make), ran this version of Neil Davidson's article that I've not seen anywhere else (it seems to be the "fullest" version): https://nationalpost.com/news/local-news/iran-vancouver-soccer-friendly-trudeau/wcm/16056376-114b-4048-8f31-73d1aa8fc376

Notably, it contains the following sections not included in the Star's version:

A Metro man who lost friends when Iran shot down a Ukrainian airliner is rejecting calls from some Iranian Canadians to cancel a friendly match between the Canadian and Iranian World Cup soccer teams in Vancouver.

“I do not mix those guys playing for the national team with the Iranian government,” said Navid Sorkhou. “They’re proud football players and we shouldn’t punish them for playing.”

Sorkhou — whose friend and fellow engineer Ardalan Ebnoddin-Hamidi died with his wife and son on Flight 752 — is going to the game himself.

Sorkhou thinks the game is a certain sellout because of the big Iranian community in the Lower Mainland, many of whom are excited to see the team play here. “I have no doubt that they will be welcome in Canada,” he said.

“There will be people protesting,” he predicted. “They will want to have their voices heard by the Iranian government.”

But Sorkhou sees that as a good thing. “It could spark something in Iran,” he said, noting the expatriate community here is mostly opposed to the Iranian government.

and this from the leader of the protest/calls to cancel the game:

“We want the (Canadian) government to take them to International Court. And instead of that, we get humiliated by them. I feel like I’ve been stabbed in the back. … After 28 months we don’t see any sign of seeking justice here. We don’t see sign of taking Iran to any international forum. And instead of that they invite the (Iran) soccer team here.”

Obviously the protest leader is wrongly assuming that its Trudeau who is responsible, rather than presumably John Herdman, for inviting the Iranian team team here, but its clear where his ire lies - at the Canadian government and its leader. Its not surprising to me that this criticism of Trudeau appeared in the National Post version of the article but not the Star version. That just historically tends to be the way these papers run.

I don't think either (or any) paper is "better" than the other in this regard, they are both guided by internal agendas. I have a friend who works at the Toronto Star as a reporter/article writer who I shall not name lest I get him in trouble, but he's mentioned many times that this is the case, even if it wasn't apparent from the outside.

That's a great break down, very informative and seemingly fair. Thank you for all of that. 

Also good to get those additional snippets from both sides of the Iranian community, which the Toronto star failed to provide. 

[gigi riva]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Apparently depends on the stadium above all. Rental fee, concessions, other costs and revenue, all change in function of the venue. 

If a friendly it is different as the rival's fee cuts in on revenue. 

Canada would make the most money in a very large stadium we own (or have a deal with) playing an official match vs a major rival, and more if tickets can be high priced. 

Key: for official matche's rivals cover all their costs and get no fee, making them more lucrative for the host. 

Wondering: isn't the Gold Cup really the US scamming the region with the region's consent? 

I think you may be right on the Gold Cup . I have always thought that too

[ssk]

Off-topic but this just popped on on my Twitter and seemed relevant to this thread:

 

[SpecialK]

 

[JAVIERF]

What's going on with the son of Pierre?  Does he wants to rule the football in Canada for CSA?  He can't involved in Fifa matches nor friendlies, why he is so into football?   He is pushing Alberto Fernandez throughout a milk Canadian company in the Messi Gerry Martino and Bielsa rich province to arrange a friendly in Canada for Argentina.   Why he is so obsessed with football?  The day he went to talk to your players prior a match I think in Edmonton. 

What is going on with this dude?  I bet my house he is gonna be in  Qatar for the matches a week off for vacation for the son of monsieur Pierre