CANCELLED WC Prep Match #1: Canada vs Iran - Sunday, June 5 BC Place, Vancouver

[ECW]

9 hours ago, Dooghkor said:

Most of those are more authoritarian than Iran is! Wtf.

Honestly, as a dual citizen, I feel a lot less Canadian reading this garbage. 

The US shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988 over Iranian waters. I can keep giving examples of Western criminality until the end of time. This insane obsession with Iran's government has always baffled me. Most developing countries are just as shit if not shittier, but somehow Iran always gets singled out. There's this mass hysteria against Iran that's never made sense to me. 

Apart from the Ukrainians on board, all the Canadians on the plane were Iranian dual citizens. Somehow most of us are excited about this match but the holier than thou woke brigade is crying. 

If it wasn't for this incident, the mob would have taken issue with Iran's human rights problems. 

Always fucking something. 

Are you an Iranian-Canadian duel citizen? I’ve yet to meet one who isn’t obsessed, and rightly so, with Iran’s government. Perhaps those who were part of that regime and got out with a lot of cash, but otherwise not. 

[ECW]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The real point is that there is no law or ministerial decree saying we cannot play them. As there is, clear and specific, with regards to Russia right now. The Canadian government has had time to put some policy in place, and have not. 

You are asking for there to be some logic after the fact and based on nothing.

We have no ban on an Iranian wrestler competing under his flag in Canada, or a tennis player at the Rogers Cup, in any sport: nothing at all.

So the outrage is after the fact and worse: even your outrage has intensified since the Trudeau statement, you maybe were of this opinion before (though it is hard to say since you rant in one direction no matter what the issue), but not as intensely as now. You're like the drunk in the bar who was paying half attention but when someone else starts shouting, you jump into the mix.

The CSA cannot just pull random criteria out of the hat if there is no indication in Canadian law or policy that would oblige them to refuse to play a certain country. And it is completely unfair and incompetent on the part of politicians to expect a national sports association to apply a policy in anticipation of a possible reaction. 

Also incompetent: if Canada is not prepared to guarantee any FIFA nation can play in Canada, we cannot be a host in 2026. Make it Mexico-USA and let us go through the qualifying process, which is fine. FIFA is paying close attention to our lack of clarity.

In any case, Iran forces its athletes to not face an Israeli, which is rather disgraceful IMO, as it means a wrestler, or in one of the martial arts, gets to an advanced round in the Olympics and can't continue--sad for the Iranian athlete, against the spirit of sport. That is what I think.

But at least Iran has a policy. Canada does not. 

Not really. Canada does not have to arrange friendlies with any FIFA sanctioned nation for any reason, including support for the Iranian athlete or the spirit of sport. And actually, many Iranians living in Iran support the boycott of their own country at a great price to their well being for the sake of the hope of the fall of their government. 

[ECW]

16 hours ago, BigMo said:

This is silly, international football by its very nature means you will play against countries with authoritarian regimes. Adopting the position that their athletes are indistinguishable from their governments will very quickly take you to a position where true global competition is unworkable.
 

You get the sense, for some people, that there should be a seperate tournament for democracies with strong human rights records. There is nothing wrong with advocating for those things on their own merit, but tying them to sport, means leaving a huge swath of the worlds population unrepresented.

In this particular example, anyone who has lived in proximity to a Persian community knows they follow and support their national side. We are talking about exiles who hate the current regime as much as anyone, but they’re able to make the distinction. Surely everyone else can as well.

Also a bit weak how quick the PM threw the federation under the bus, when faced with the slightest bit of media scrutiny. He should be able to respond to this rationally, rather then give weight to a standard that is impossible to keep at all times.

 

I know many Iranians living in Canada who will not support this match. Actually, I find it difficult to believe that any Iranian exile would support a friendly like this unless they made a lot of money while being part of the recent powers that be in Iran (and because our immigration policy since Mulroney has favoured immigrants with money there are certainly some of those). 

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, ECW said:

I know many Iranians living in Canada who will not support this match. Actually, I find it difficult to believe that any Iranian exile would support a friendly like this unless they made a lot of money while being part of the recent powers that be in Iran (and because our immigration policy since Mulroney has favoured immigrants with money there are certainly some of those). 

I think most Iranians are proud of their heritage and it's a good way for them to get together as a people, in spite of a vast majority of them detesting the current regime.  But I can see a fairly even split of Iranian-Canadians and Iranian-Americans supporting and not supporting this game.

One other thing people need to think about when venting about Canada Soccer, this friendly doesn't get initiated by Canada Soccer, it only becomes an option because John Herdman wants a competitive friendly to happen.   I don't think he cares about the politics.

[VinceA]

In my experience living in an area of Ontario with many Persian families and having worked with many Persian immigrants most love the national team and soccer but despise the government. I'm not surprised many might be against the regime but want to support the national team.

[ECW]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

I think most Iranians are proud of their heritage and it's a good way for them to get together as a people, in spite of a vast majority of them detesting the current regime.  But I can see a fairly even split of Iranian-Canadians and Iranian-Americans on this game.  

One other thing people need to think about when talking about Canada Soccer, this friendly doesn't get initiated by Canada Soccer, it only becomes an option because John Herdman wants a competitive friendly to happen.  

Not too many Iranians in exile are “proud of their heritage”. Not in a recent sense. This is why the term Persian is in use. To be proud of a heritage that murdered your family and caused you to flee your country doesn’t happen often. You find that more often in 2nd or 3rd generation Canadians. 

[CanadaFan123]

55 minutes ago, ECW said:

I think part of the issue is that inviting the Iranian National Team also involves issuing visas for IRGC officers… it was the ITGC that killed about 80 Canadians and 30 Iranians with residency status only 3 years ago. I can’t imagine many governments allowing such a thing unless it was especially politically favourable in some way. Encouraging friendship via sport by paying the Iranian government a lot of money is an especially inane argument here. 

The problem with this is that it takes a lot of hoops to jump through. Canadians were aboard a Ukrainian flight in high-risk airspace. Do people think the IRGC in the midst of a conflict with the US decided to down a Ukrainian flight with Canadians? It is a disaster but these things happen. Iran even accidentally killed 19 of its own sailors in an exercise around that time. 
 

By that token I suppose we should also no longer schedule friendlies with the USA after their accidental killings of Canadians overseas.

Since all private citizens are an extension of their government we should also cease all friendlies with countries where Canadians have ever been murdered. 

[VinceA]

19 minutes ago, ECW said:

Not too many Iranians in exile are “proud of their heritage”. Not in a recent sense. This is why the term Persian is in use. To be proud of a heritage that murdered your family and caused you to flee your country doesn’t happen often. You find that more often in 2nd or 3rd generation Canadians. 

Yeah most I meet use the term "Persian" rather than Iranian and some even try to avoid using Arab words that have sort of entered the Farsi language when they speak it.

For example one co-worker wouldn't use "salam" as a greeting as that's Arabic. 

[ECW]

35 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The problem with this is that it takes a lot of hoops to jump through. Canadians were aboard a Ukrainian flight in high-risk airspace. Do people think the IRGC in the midst of a conflict with the US decided to down a Ukrainian flight with Canadians? It is a disaster but these things happen. Iran even accidentally killed 19 of its own sailors in an exercise around that time. 
 

By that token I suppose we should also no longer schedule friendlies with the USA after their accidental killings of Canadians overseas.

Since all private citizens are an extension of their government we should also cease all friendlies with countries where Canadians have ever been murdered. 

The Iranians I know have no problem with the idea that intentionally shooting down a western bound flight full of Iranians and Iranian-Canadians is quite likely with the current government. Iran kills its citizens often (and currently - google protests in Iran that have been happening this week) and it was much less contentious to kill Canadians than Americans under the circumstances.

And of yet, because the Iranian government has refused all international cooperation in the matter, no other government or international body has concluded that it was an innocent accident.

Politics and sport are both full of stupidity and hypocrisy. Both need to be negotiated step-by-step. I don’t see that scheduling a friendly with Iran at this moment makes much sense. And I’m not surprised that the federal government doesn’t think so either. I don’t think it would matter which party was in power. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by ECW

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, narduch said:

Making fun of Peterson and his followers is always warranted. 

I also happen to make fun of the followers of Zizek, and a few others on the left, who has had a few debates with Peterson. In some ways they are worse, because many are bona fide intellectuals publishing books and academics, and still need to have their ideological heroes.

While Peterson is a surrogate YouTube daddy for the middleman.

Thinking people should not be read or heard to agree with but to be challenged by and disagree with, they should be openings to freer thought, not closures. And Peterson is closure (aka dogma).

[BuzzAndSting]

20 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I would say that publicly stating that this game shouldn't happen is a completely reasonable stance. Especially on the heels of everything Russia under the sun being boycotted. I don't fully agree with that but completely understand the sentiment considering this is not a larger event with multiple participants its an arrangement between 2 parties. The problem is that our prime minister is virtue signaling as per usual and his actions do not align with who he tries to portray himself as. He's never been tough on Iran, not publicly or privately. He's full of crap and was more pissed about a plane full of Canadians vaping on their way to Mexico without masks then he ever was about a plane being shot down leaving Iran. That's what it is plain and simple.

You do know that the Government of Canada has imposed many sanctions on Iran while JT has been PM right?

[Soro17]

3 hours ago, JamboAl said:

You mean that offshore tax haven, Curacao.

Curacao:

Negatives: colonialist, offshore tax haven, laundering money for the regime in Venezuela, oil-refining, sex-trafficking hub.

Pros: blue liqueur

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

You do know that the Government of Canada has imposed many sanctions on Iran while JT has been PM right?

I do.. and? 

[Stanley]

4 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

 

also, the crocodile tears about Iran are funny, because here we are playing their NT, guys who just wanna play soccer and happen to be from Iran, which is a problem, but us going to Qatar to play a tournament whose organizers used slave labour to build stadiums, which is totally okay. 

I've been thinking the same thing.  Horrible country for human rights, but that's okay!

[ag futbol]

6 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

A lot of people crying about the Iran friendly reminds me of the latest viral clip of Jordan Peterson crying about young children no longer able to identify as cisgender or whatever stupid conspiracy his fanboys latched onto. 
 

also, the crocodile tears about Iran are funny, because here we are playing their NT, guys who just wanna play soccer and happen to be from Iran, which is a problem, but us going to Qatar to play a tournament whose organizers used slave labour to build stadiums, which is totally okay. 

Totally agree. If we take off the horse blinders here for a second, it becomes exceeding obvious this is just a press taking point.  Had this not devolved into a low-level shit storm, Trudeau and team are largely principal-free on this issue and could care less.

On more than one occasion, Iranian officials have been spotted in Toronto visiting family members who live here. And I have little to no doubt that’s at least some of the cash washing through our property markets has come directly through the same sources (although they are far from the only ones).

But who cares about that? Let’s make an example of the Iranian soccer team, rather than the actual Iranian officials.

Edited May 18, 2022 by ag futbol

[cornerkick]

Iran will be staying around for another match.  
 

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Will Trudeau have a stern tweet about this one? Shame on you Ecuador. You're cancelled. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, cornerkick said:

Iran will be staying around for another match.  
 

 

That's a good match too. High level, I'd go to a game like that. 

As much as I try, I can't root against Iran and if you knew my background you'd realise I'd be well justified to. Maybe because despite the regime, I'm very aware of the previous regime, but also of Persian-Iranian culture, which is unbelievable. I have much more ambivalent to negative views of Saudi Arabia in contrast. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[InglewoodJack]

31 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

Totally agree. If we take off the horse blinders here for a second, it becomes exceeding obvious this is just a press taking point.  Had this not devolved into a low-level shit storm, Trudeau and team are largely principal-free on this issue and could care less.

On more than one occasion, Iranian officials have been spotted in Toronto visiting family members who live here. And I have little to no doubt that’s at least some of the cash washing through our property markets has come directly through the same sources (although they are far from the only ones).

But who cares about that? Let’s make an example of the Iranian soccer team, rather than the actual Iranian officials.

Look just because we sell billions in weapons to Saudi Arabia doesn’t mean we can’t take a stand against Iran!

[red card]

18 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

Totally agree. If we take off the horse blinders here for a second, it becomes exceeding obvious this is just a press taking point.  Had this not devolved into a low-level shit storm, Trudeau and team are largely principal-free on this issue and could care less.

On more than one occasion, Iranian officials have been spotted in Toronto visiting family members who live here. And I have little to no doubt that’s at least some of the cash washing through our property markets has come directly through the same sources (although they are far from the only ones).

But who cares about that? Let’s make an example of the Iranian soccer team, rather than the actual Iranian officials.

On point about the politics.

Trudeau was answering a question from the press. This means the government was aware of the match and Trudeau was briefed on it to provide a cogent answer ex mentioning Sport Canada. But not upset enough to proactively say concrete steps are being taken to prevent the match - they would have already told the CSA before the match date was officially announced.

If they wanted to really wound the CSA, they would have held a press conference to announce visas and other measures are being taken to prevent the match from happening.

Trudeau has to be the first PM to make a comment about a friendly - another step in becoming a football nation.

 

Iran was very well supported in Russia and Asian Cup in Australia. Canada match is nearing sellout territory. This tells me a large segment Persian diaspora aren't just thinking in all or nothing terms about their homeland.

Looks like the CSA worked with the Iranian-Canadian Congress as they noted: ...the Iranian Canadian Congress appreciates and supports the decision and the efforts of the Canada Soccer organization in hosting this friendly match. As stated by Sandra Gage, Chief Marketing officer of Canada Soccer: "We believe in the power of sport and its ability to bring people from different backgrounds and political beliefs together for a common purpose.” 

But they do ask for 1 minute of silence for the victims of flight 752.

https://www.iccongress.ca/welcome_canada_iran_friendly_soccer_match

 

 

[SpursFlu]

Just opened up another section for ticket sales

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, cornerkick said:

Iran will be staying around for another match.  
 

 

Would we get some cash out of this for hosting?

[SpursFlu]

5 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Would we get some cash out of this for hosting?

I would just think the venue. Commonwealth maybe? Pretty decent game

Edited May 18, 2022 by SpursFlu

[LazyGru]

15 hours ago, Dooghkor said:

 This insane obsession with Iran's government has always baffled me. Most developing countries are just as shit if not shittier, but somehow Iran always gets singled out. There's this mass hysteria against Iran that's never made sense to me. 

 

Are you seriously telling me you have no idea why the mainstream media has it in for Iran?