How Far Are We From A Soccer Nation?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, eramosat said:

....Same as Yugoslavia's diaspora (water polo man, that's what drives the nations!)....

I thought hrkljus was the authentic ex-Yu sport? There's nothing quite like that moment when you finally get fed up with listening to the demented anti-Serbian rantings of the Croatian babe who is really into soccer players and comment that maybe Josip B had the right idea where brotherhood and unity was concerned...

Edited June 13, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[InglewoodJack]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I thought hrkljus was the authentic ex-Yu sport? There's nothing quite like that moment when you finally get fed up with listening to the demented anti-Serbian rantings of the Croatian babe who is really into soccer players and comment that maybe Josip B had the right idea where brotherhood and unity was concerned...

Tito 🤝 Herdman

brotherhood over all

[costarg]

14 hours ago, eramosat said:

I would like to take the odds on "Never", which implies within the 5 decades.  Once the criterion are firmly established, that is, for this esoteric question.

Canada is simply too far behind many other nations who put soccer first, or at least further ahead, in every aspect that has been discussed in the thread.  All the UEFA nations.  All the CONMEBOL nations.  And so many others around the globe.  Women's success is notable, but may not move the needle so much. 

Plus Canada clearly puts one sport, hockey, above all others, which allows it to compete on a world stage with great success, which is a self-sustaining and sufficient situation...for male and female players and fans both.

USA can also never be a soccer nation, so I would also like odds on "Never" for them.  They revere something known as "american football" well beyond anything else, at every level possible, and that's never going away, and it will always compete with soccer for athletes, for eyeballs, for $$$ every which way it goes.  US college football teams have budgets and fan-bases and player development pyramids down into the pre-teen years that rival professional football club budgets in top level leagues in the soccer-iest of nations everywhere!  That ain't going away!

 

 

 

I'm not sure.  A lot can happen within one generation thanks to evolution and information.  Lots of parents I know are already changing their minds when it comes to hockey given the data on head injuries.  Football cannot be very far behind.  

[johnyb]

14 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Has there ever been a none soccer nation to win a world cup? Or a major title? It's a good question. Can't think of one of the top of my head

Would love to be the first

Denmark winning the Euro in 1994 would have to be the closest thing to a non Soccer nation winning.

[Rivaldo]

No, soccer is by far the most popular sport in Denmark. They were certainly a surprise winner, Like Greece.

[Rivaldo]

18 hours ago, red card said:

EA FIFA is the best selling sports video game & sells over 5 million units/yr in the US.

EA Sports FIFA (designed in Canada) is now the second best selling sports video game in Canada.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

I'm not sure.  A lot can happen within one generation thanks to evolution and information.  Lots of parents I know are already changing their minds when it comes to hockey given the data on head injuries.  Football cannot be very far behind.  

Yeah, 60 years ago baseball was the most popular sport in the USA. 60 years before that it was horse racing. Boxing used to be massive but UFC has basically replaced it. These things can change.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Kent
Added the picture

[Rivaldo]

13 hours ago, gigi riva said:

In order to achieve a bigger popularity for Soccer in this country we should look at countries like Japan and Maybe Australia to see what they are doing .Like Canada where Hockey dominates the the sports Landscape, Japan has Baseball very dominant while Australia has Aussie Rules and Cricket has the dominant Sport yet somehow Soccer is thriving in those two nations 

Is soccer thriving in Australia? They barely qualified for the World Cup. I think they had a fortunate draw and were lucky to get two wins to advance. Yes, I'm jealous.

What can we take from Japan? Soccer is clearly their #2 sport and they have a much larger population.

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

I'm not sure.  A lot can happen within one generation thanks to evolution and information.  Lots of parents I know are already changing their minds when it comes to hockey given the data on head injuries.  Football cannot be very far behind.  

Like for instance Japan and Korea are hot at the moment but are expected to have a population collapse in the next 10 years. With almost no immigration, that can't be good for the next generation of footballers

Edited June 13, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Joe MacCarthy]

5 hours ago, costarg said:

I'm not sure.  A lot can happen within one generation thanks to evolution and information.  Lots of parents I know are already changing their minds when it comes to hockey given the data on head injuries.  Football cannot be very far behind.  

Female soccer players suffer the most concussions in high school sports
American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons

Overall, there were 40,843 reported high school athlete injuries, including 6,399 concussions. Among the findings:

• While the total participation rate for the nine sports increased 1.04 fold, the number of diagnosed concussions increased 2.2 fold from 2005 to 2015.
• In gender matched sports, girls experienced significantly higher concussion rates than boys. 
• During the years after TBI law enactment (2010 to 2015), the concussion rate was higher in girls soccer than boys football, and during the 2014-2015 school year, concussions were more common in girls soccer than any other sport
• Boys baseball and girls volleyball had the most significant increase in the rate of concussions during the 10-year study period.

[Macksam]

Some of the comments in the thread is making my head hurt, and they're from posters I have never seen before so trolling is possibly at play here. When will Canada become a soccer nation? Already is, simple. Where does the country evolve to after that? An even bigger soccer nation. When does that happen? When MLS becomes a top five league so probably in the next five years. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Macksam

[Joe MacCarthy]

52 minutes ago, Macksam said:

 When does that happen? When MLS becomes a top five league so probably in the next five years. 

Now that makes my head hurt. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

It's already not drastically far off. Challenging the English Premiership isn't going to happen any time soon, but getting firmly ahead of Liga MX and eclipsing Ligue 1 (probably the weakest of what gets termed as the top five leagues) certainly isn't mission impossible, if Messi's arrival gives MLS a significant boost.

[Macksam]

Messi is going to amalgamate and centralize the fragmented North American soccer market to consuming MLS/Inter Miami matches. Not saying the Mexican American is going to stop watching Liga MX or the Eurosnob will stop watching the Prem but they will definately also be watching him at Inter Miami on a consistent basis, and it will continue after he leaves if MLS plays their cards right. 

[Rivaldo]

Do you think improving the quality of MLS, so that it's clearly better than Liga MX, would have as much an impact on soccer in Canada as having one of the Canadian MLS teams rise to the top of the league again, like Toronto did for a few years?

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Rivaldo said:

Do you think improving the quality of MLS, so that it's clearly better than Liga MX, would have as much an impact on soccer in Canada as having one of the Canadian MLS teams rise to the top of the league again, like Toronto did for a few years?

This isn't a popular opinion but I think MLS being in only 3 markets hurts us from reaching our full potential. 

[Aird25]

4 minutes ago, narduch said:

This isn't a popular opinion but I think MLS being in only 3 markets hurts us from reaching our full potential. 

Is that really an unpopular opinion?

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Rivaldo said:

Do you think improving the quality of MLS, so that it's clearly better than Liga MX, would have as much an impact on soccer in Canada as having one of the Canadian MLS teams rise to the top of the league again, like Toronto did for a few years?

Yes, a lot more of an impact considering MLS would become one of the best leagues in the world. Having competitive teams in a league like that would be tremendous for the country. 

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

This isn't a popular opinion but I think MLS being in only 3 markets hurts us from reaching our full potential. 

I disagree. Would we reach our basketball potential better if the Raptors didn't exist and we just had the CEBL? I believe the major NA and Canadian only league's can complement each other for both sports in the future. 

[SpursFlu]

Supporting soccer in a football nation sounds like such a drag. First off we would always have to say football or potentially be insulted. When I was telling my friends I'm watching the football game and they say which one, and I say the Seahawks. That's gonna be awkward 

Edited June 15, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Joe MacCarthy]

8 hours ago, narduch said:

This isn't a popular opinion but I think MLS being in only 3 markets hurts us from reaching our full potential. 

I've always agreed with this.  Usually when I post I provide third party corroborating evidence of the point I'm trying to make.  When I can't do that, I say it's just my opinion. So, JMO I think if there were at least 5 teams, you would have more cross Canada appeal, there would be a team at least somewhat near you to provide a rooting interest.

With one team that team assumes the de facto standard of being "Canada's team"

But three teams, seem to be popular only within their own area.  Who do people on the Prairies align with, same with people from the Maritimes?  MLS has not taken the position of the NFL where people in Canada often with a few local exceptions (Bills, Seahawks) just randomly come up with a team.

Is there any significant MLS fandom in the Maritimes or the Prairies, do they have a logical rooting interest? Hope that made some sense.

[gigi riva]

On 6/13/2023 at 2:13 PM, costarg said:

I'm not sure.  A lot can happen within one generation thanks to evolution and information.  Lots of parents I know are already changing their minds when it comes to hockey given the data on head injuries.  Football cannot be very far behind.  

Lets not forget the cost to sign a child up for Hockey

[Joe MacCarthy]

16 hours ago, Macksam said:

Messi is going to amalgamate and centralize the fragmented North American soccer market to consuming MLS/Inter Miami matches. Not saying the Mexican American is going to stop watching Liga MX or the Eurosnob will stop watching the Prem but they will definately also be watching him at Inter Miami on a consistent basis, and it will continue after he leaves if MLS plays their cards right. 

Why is Messi going to have any greater effect than David Beckham?  The MLS is not a kid anymore (27 years old), why hasn't all this "potential" been realized.  There are no iconic teams like almost every other top soccer league has. 

Unless the sole distinction of greatness becomes player's salaries and even then it couldn't match the Saudis or if they so chose, the Chinese.

I've been hearing about this growth potential for 20 years, to become a top five league when you don't have any historic teams like Celtic or Rangers or Galatasaray, Besiktas or Fenerbahce to provide a global attraction, I just don't see it.  There's nothing wrong with being a good workmanlike league like Mexico or Switzerland.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Why is Messi going to have any greater effect than David Beckham?  ...

Because Beckham was a one-trick pony on free kicks married to one of the Spice Girls rather than a truly all time great player worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona? I'd rate Zlatan Ibrahimovic ahead of Beckham as a player and think he did more truly stunning stuff in a Galaxy jersey than Beckham ever did.

Beyond that though the reason there still is plenty of growth potential for MLS is that there is a vast Hispanic population to be tapped into in the United States that loves soccer but hasn't embraced MLS to anything like the extent it could have. That's why Messi could have a greater effect than a big name primarily in the context of the anglosphere like Beckham. It's also why they are doing the Leagues Cup. May work or may not. Time will tell. Either way MLS is not in a bad place even as things stand now.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Macksam]

7 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Why is Messi going to have any greater effect than David Beckham?  The MLS is not a kid anymore (27 years old), why hasn't all this "potential" been realized.  There are no iconic teams like almost every other top soccer league has. 

Unless the sole distinction of greatness becomes player's salaries and even then it couldn't match the Saudis or if they so chose, the Chinese.

I've been hearing about this growth potential for 20 years, to become a top five league when you don't have any historic teams like Celtic or Rangers or Galatasaray, Besiktas or Fenerbahce to provide a global attraction, I just don't see it.  There's nothing wrong with being a good workmanlike league like Mexico or Switzerland.

BBTB mentioned it already but the magnitude of the player is much different. Beckham was a celebrity known for his look rather than what he brought to the table with his game, which was considered secondary. No disrespect to him as I do believe he was world class, and he showed it when he joined PSG by slotting in seamlessly with their midfield right before his retirement, but the people that watched MLS for Beckham were casual sports viewers and women who had no interest in anything beyond Beckham so no longevity was ever going to be achieved from that after the novelty wore off, and especially after he left with regards to that crowd. Did he attract hard core soccer guys to the league and bring it some legitimacy? Yes, I believe he helped clean up the league's image from all the gimmicks that transpired before him and it did create the traditional supporter once again as evidenced by TFC's initial off field success but outside the thousands of guys in the stadium, the vast majority of die hard European footy fans, Liga MX fans, soccer connoisseurs (people who enjoy watching clubs like Sevilla and Galatasaray) all tuned out after realizing what level the league was at, and the vast majority of them still haven't given the league a chance since that time. Well, maybe some people in Toronto now have with Insigne and company in town. 

Messi is different because he is still arguably the best player in the world and he just won the World Cup, and that is going to bring in the traditional soccer crowd on a consistent basis. Now when that happens, MLS will have at least two years to keep those eyeballs and they need to up the level of the league overall to ensure those eyeballs stay after those aforementioned two years. How will they do that? IMO, increase the DP slots to 5 and start signing players on back loaded contracts right away considering the cap will probably go up exponentially next season with all the added money Messi is going to bring in, turn Inter Miami and other MLS teams into world class squads overnight and the hardcore crowd will stay after he leaves and MLS will become a top five league after that.  

Edited June 15, 2023 by Macksam