Luc de Fougerolles

[Bison44]

HAHA, I can.  Half the guys on here were saying "no experimenting, we need to win" and Biello was worried.  Then half the board thinks Biello should be done after the loss, no pressure eh?  I can understand why Biello didnt throw him in and have a late game Zator type mishap sink any chance he has of one day getting another head coaching job.  

[costarg]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

HAHA, I can.  Half the guys on here were saying "no experimenting, we need to win" and Biello was worried.  Then half the board thinks Biello should be done after the loss, no pressure eh?  I can understand why Biello didnt throw him in and have a late game Zator type mishap sink any chance he has of one day getting another head coaching job.  

True.  I don't see how Biello roles out another conservative "same old 11" after that Japan game.  Some might say Vitoria stabilized the ship, reality is Japan eased off the pedal.  The only vet I still wanna see after that game is Hoilett.  

Only time Borjan, Vitoria and Osorio should see the field again is for a farewell cameo during a friendly.  Yes, I'm adding Osorio to the retirement heap until he proves otherwise by showing dominant form at club level.  Ahmed, Choiniere, Saliba, .... have shown more game to game form and potential than he has.  This is no time for blind loyalty "a la Bradley", this is freakin competitive international soccer.  We're building for Copa and the WC.  Only the best and/or the future should see the field.  What someone did 2-3 years ago is irrelevant.  It's time we shake off the loser habits and get real.

[Obinna]

13 hours ago, costarg said:

True.  I don't see how Biello roles out another conservative "same old 11" after that Japan game.  Some might say Vitoria stabilized the ship, reality is Japan eased off the pedal.  The only vet I still wanna see after that game is Hoilett.  

Only time Borjan, Vitoria and Osorio should see the field again is for a farewell cameo during a friendly.  Yes, I'm adding Osorio to the retirement heap until he proves otherwise by showing dominant form at club level.  Ahmed, Choiniere, Saliba, .... have shown more game to game form and potential than he has.  This is no time for blind loyalty "a la Bradley", this is freakin competitive international soccer.  We're building for Copa and the WC.  Only the best and/or the future should see the field.  What someone did 2-3 years ago is irrelevant.  It's time we shake off the loser habits and get real.

I think all 3 will be part of the next camp and I think Borjan will start. It's fine, I just want to get the job done. Perhaps we can transition the keeper when new coach comes in, hopefully before March.

Vitoria (I think) is likely to start IF we play a back 3 again, which I suspect we will. Long term I think Cornelius could be the answer there, with Waterman challenging him. Those are the only two playing middle of a back 3 for club right now, so unless we put Kennedy back in there or something changes that's probably it.

For now though I think Vitoria has the experience and leadership to bring stability there, along with winning everything in the air. None of Cornelius, Miller or Johnston are great in the air and against Jamaica I think we may need that for defending set pieces. My argument for Vitoria is also that we haven't played a lot and looked very rusty, so stability will be need. Yes he is old and slow but in a back 3 at the CONCACAF level he hasn't really let us down because of his age or his speed. 

All of that being said, I can see Cornelius starting ahead of Vitoria in Kingston like he did in WCQ. 

As for Osorio, I prefer Hoilett from the start as the CAM with Eustaquio and Kone as double-pivots. But do we want to keep Hoilett fresh for Toronto and start Osorio down in Kingston? An interesting decision for Biello, surely. The home leg is probably where we win this contest, if we do win, so I can't help but assume we play our best at BMO and rotate (a bit) for the Kingston match - scrap out a result and come back home.  

[VinceA]

I am pretty convinced Biello is gonna make us miss out on Copa America.

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I am pretty convinced Biello is gonna make us miss out on Copa America.

I am not biggest Biello fan, but unless he makes some radical coaching decision that costs us, which is really not something we see from Biello, I won't blame him too much if we lose. I think he's the steady eddy type who won't do anything rash with how he sets up the team. 

Similary though, unless he comes up with some masterstroke that sends us through, I am not going to credit Biello too much if we win. 

[costarg]

30 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I am not biggest Biello fan, but unless he makes some radical coaching decision that costs us, which is really not something we see from Biello, I won't blame him too much if we lose. I think he's the steady eddy type who won't do anything rash with how he sets up the team. 

Similary though, unless he comes up with some masterstroke that sends us through, I am not going to credit Biello too much if we win. 

He's in a bad situation.  He won't have enough time and camps to actually rebuild and reshape the team.  So he's kinda stuck doing the "same old", which clearly isn't working anymore.  

I don't see how he succeeds unless he roles the dice and trusts the young players in a new formation.  It certainly is a gamble.

[EJsens1]

28 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I am not biggest Biello fan, but unless he makes some radical coaching decision that costs us, which is really not something we see from Biello, I won't blame him too much if we lose. I think he's the steady eddy type who won't do anything rash with how he sets up the team. 

Similary though, unless he comes up with some masterstroke that sends us through, I am not going to credit Biello too much if we win. 

We’ve been playing very lacklustre, uninspiring football for a while. Same strategy and set up with personnel becoming very predictable on the pitch. It’s not like we can just discard 7-8 starters and go to plan B, but I’d like to think Biello would mix things up against Jamaica and insert some more speed. Countries have figured us out. 

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, EJsens1 said:

We’ve been playing very lacklustre, uninspiring football for a while. Same strategy and set up with personnel becoming very predictable on the pitch. It’s not like we can just discard 7-8 starters and go to plan B, but I’d like to think Biello would mix things up against Jamaica and insert some more speed. Countries have figured us out. 

 

8 minutes ago, costarg said:

He's in a bad situation.  He won't have enough time and camps to actually rebuild and reshape the team.  So he's kinda stuck doing the "same old", which clearly isn't working anymore.  

I don't see how he succeeds unless he roles the dice and trusts the young players in a new formation.  It certainly is a gamble.

Good points from you both and unfortunately Biello doesn't seem to be the gambling type. It feels like we need something new to give us a boost, yet it doesn't feel like we will get it under Biello.

Good news is that Buchanan should be back. Not a new player but a player we haven't seen since the NL final where he wasn't fully fit. Could give us the spark we need. Throw in a (hopefully) fit Eustaquio to control the middle and suddenly things feel more positive.

The key will be to win the midfield. If we lose that we are in trouble as this is where our advantage should come from in theory.

Junior could play a big role here to help control the tempo. Not to slag on Oso because he is a tempo setter in his own right, but I am worried about him getting knocked off the ball easily like we saw in Gold Cup.

[EJsens1]

17 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 

Good points from you both and unfortunately Biello doesn't seem to be the gambling type. It feels like we need something new to give us a boost, yet it doesn't feel like we will get it under Biello.

Good news is that Buchanan should be back. Not a new player but a player we haven't seen since the NL final where he wasn't fully fit. Could give us the spark we need. Throw in a (hopefully) fit Eustaquio to control the middle and suddenly things feel more positive.

The key will be to win the midfield. If we lose that we are in trouble as this is where our advantage should come from in theory.

Junior could play a big role here to help control the tempo. Not to slag on Oso because he is a tempo setter in his own right, but I am worried about him getting knocked off the ball easily like we saw in Gold Cup.

You’re probably right. If he was going to make changes we’d have seen it in the game against Japan. If we had had 2 games that window to experiment, maybe De Fougerolles (perhaps not realistic) or others get a better chance to be included and that is brought in to the NL against Jamaica.

Hopefully we benefit from some chilly weather on the 21st too

[dyslexic nam]

Boys, we are beating Jamaica and qualifying for the Copa.  

[narduch]

20 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Boys, we are beating Jamaica and qualifying for the Copa.  

This. 

[costarg]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Boys, we are beating Jamaica and qualifying for the Copa.  

Man I wish I was as confident.  I don't think the team we saw vs Japan has a win in them. Jamaica has the perfect balance to destroy our backline and specifically Vitoria.  Hopefully Tajon and Stache are back and bring some strength and tempo.  I just can't see our backline being strong enough, unless we're mixing things up and adding some height and speed.

[Obinna]

34 minutes ago, costarg said:

Man I wish I was as confident.  I don't think the team we saw vs Japan has a win in them. Jamaica has the perfect balance to destroy our backline and specifically Vitoria.  Hopefully Tajon and Stache are back and bring some strength and tempo.  I just can't see our backline being strong enough, unless we're mixing things up and adding some height and speed.

Bombito for Vitoria then?

[costarg]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

Bombito for Vitoria then?

It might be an improvement, but we just don't know.  Bombito has not played there much or enough to judge.  Ideally he develops into the dominant CB we're hoping for, but we just haven't seen enough of it.

We needed to try different combos and formations during the Gold Cup and vs Japan.  We keep harping on Kennedy for bad showings, but he's never played a string of games to develop familiarity. MacGraw played with a new team he had never met in a new position and we all trashed his performance.  We pulled off Cornelius at 45 when he was not the problem.  Yet, we go back to Miller/Vitoria/Johnston even when they've had a few stinkers of their own and leaves obvious vulnerabilities.

I'd like to see Davies/Kennedy/MacGraw/Johnston for more than 90', give them a chance to find their footing and see what happens.  It gives us more height and more speed (except for MacGraw obviously) but he's surrounded by quickness.  We can also swap Kennedy for Cornelius, Miller, Bombito....

 

[InglewoodJack]

I wanna see more Cornelius, I think he's earned the opportunity to play a 90 in a competitive game, he's our most inform CB. I'm not opposed to seeing McGraw come back if not just for the height advantage, though Jamaica has an elite front 3 and I don't know if his lack of speed is going to allow him to stay in the game against those types of offensive threats. I do think that both McGraw and even Waterman are above Kennedy for me right now- he hasn't been good for Canada and he also isn't exactly lighting the austrian league on fire- got pulled at '28 two games ago, unused sub last weekend... I don't think Bombito is ready to play in competitive games for us, but I think playing him over Kennedy might at least result in *something* interesting.

Biello isn't my choice for permanent coach of course but I don't know how much of the criticism against him is less about his tactics and more about the fact that his first game ever was playing an undermanned squad against one of the most in form teams in the world, away, on like a 15 hour time difference. You take our performance against Japan, assume that a player like David wouldn't miss that penalty twice, you add Eustaquio and Buchanan, and in this scenario you also swap out Japan for a much weaker opponent like Jamaica (still good, just not Japan), and I do like our chances, especially at home.

With all this in mind, it might actually make sense not only to play LDF because we want to cap him but because he might actually be a good option. Outside of Miller and Cornelius, all of our CBs have some sort of fatal flaw- Vitoria is increasingly prone to awful games where he's outmatched, Johnston isn't a natural CB, McGraw can't run, Kennedy hasn't been good, Waterman isn't particularly great at anything specific, Bombito is way too raw; I mean, LDF could easily contribute to a defensive breakdown and let an opponent score a very easy goal, but so could pretty much all of our CBs, sans the two starters (and even then...). If he gets called up, I'd like to see us seal the deal in Toronto with a more typical lineup, and then let him play like 30 mins in Kingston.

[Kadenge]

@Olympique_de_Marseille is it too early to start a thread for our away match v Jamaica. We're  getting restless.

[Obinna]

@InglewoodJack @costarg Argee with a lot of your points, but I want to focus on the last thing Jack said about LDF (it's his thread afterall)....about playing him against Jamaica.

Honestly, I would have dismissed the idea immediately after the Japan match where he didn't see the field, but he was on the bench again for Fulham against Spurs and that obviously means something. I don't think you make the bench in the EPL against SPURS if you aren't ready, espeically as a teenage defender. This wasn't his first time being on the bench for Fulham either. This makes Biello's decision NOT to play him in a friendly much stranger. I gave Biello the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was a combination of him not being ready and prioritizing minutes for guys who do contribute (Millar, Hoilett.......Brym). Anyways, I find it hard to believe a young player who made the bench for Fulham (again) is not ready for this Canadian team.

Is it crazy for him to play against Jamaica? I don't know if it is really. If you are good enough you are old enough, as they say, and since Biello likes him enough to call him why not use him? If he's going to be a key player for us in the future, no time like the present to play him, right? These big matches will speed up his development and maybe push him along at Fulham, too. 

[blueseeka]

I thought it was absolutely crazy not to play him against Japan. It was obvious (if LDF was willing to play) that Biello was more worried about his future than Canada's. A 8-0 loss and his prospects as a full time CMNT coach would of been even more diminished.  So I don't think there is anyway that he plays versus Jamaica, unless there are up by 3 goals or more. So stupid, a young very promising prospect and we have Miller, Cornelius and Vitoria taking all of the playing time

[blueseeka]

Also, should mention that Fulham plays in a back four. I have no idea if LDF has anytime in playing a back three. And we know Biello ain't making any big changes before Jamaica. Back three with the wingbacks

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

@Olympique_de_Marseille is it too early to start a thread for our away match v Jamaica. We're  getting restless.

I was waiting for the kickoff time to be confirmed but I guess I will make one later today.

[InglewoodJack]

57 minutes ago, Obinna said:

@InglewoodJack @costarg Argee with a lot of your points, but I want to focus on the last thing Jack said about LDF (it's his thread afterall)....about playing him against Jamaica.

Honestly, I would have dismissed the idea immediately after the Japan match where he didn't see the field, but he was on the bench again for Fulham against Spurs and that obviously means something. I don't think you make the bench in the EPL against SPURS if you aren't ready, espeically as a teenage defender. This wasn't his first time being on the bench for Fulham either. This makes Biello's decision NOT to play him in a friendly much stranger. I gave Biello the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was a combination of him not being ready and prioritizing minutes for guys who do contribute (Millar, Hoilett.......Brym). Anyways, I find it hard to believe a young player who made the bench for Fulham (again) is not ready for this Canadian team.

Is it crazy for him to play against Jamaica? I don't know if it is really. If you are good enough you are old enough, as they say, and since Biello likes him enough to call him why not use him? If he's going to be a key player for us in the future, no time like the present to play him, right? These big matches will speed up his development and maybe push him along at Fulham, too. 

For the bench appearance, I try not to get too excited; we have Justin Smith who made the Nice bench, I think Liam Millar was making quite a few Liverpool bench apps, Corbeanu with Wolves as well, so on, Knight-Lebel with Bristol, etc.; especially as a centre back and not the only CB on the bench, I think it was more a question of needing the minimum number of bodies on the match day squad. Either way though, given who our other CB options are, I don't necessarily think that LDF needs to play for Fullham to play for Canada; we need guys who can play, and he's a player who can play.

I think Biello went into preservation mode at the half against Japan and that's what we saw with his uninspired substitutions; you don't want a rookie coach making it 5-0 Japan because his 17 year old youth player with 0 games of professional experience made an awful play against a very good team. On the other hand though, I don't know how much worse he could be that what we currently have out there.

I think it's "crazy" to play LDF against Jamaica just because it's so unlike Canada to give a big shot to a young player in a meaningful game, but we saw it with Kone; one good game leads to another, and all of a sudden, it's mid-2024, and we're penciling in LDF as a starter. I think it's tougher to break in a CB though- when do you make that switch? If you're down and need some offense, you bring on attacking players. If you're up and need to protect a lead, you probably bring in vets to shut the door. If you're getting blown out, might as well give some attacking players a shot to come on and score one to preserve your team ego; I guess the one scenario is where we're up by several goals with plenty of time to kill. It's a shame that guys like LDF, Koleosho, so on, weren't coming up during the WC qualifiers, because a nice game against St. Lucia would be perfect to feature LDF in.

[Kadenge]

7 minutes ago, blueseeka said:

...And we know Biello ain't making any big changes before Jamaica. Back three with the wingbacks

I hear you, but in a back 3,  Kamal Miller will be defending Bailey  as Jamaica will counter on our left when Davies attacks at WB. That is a mismatch in pace. There's also a good chance that in a back 3 Antonio will drift towards  AJ for crosses into the box. In the away match we have to set up defensively to deal with Jamaica's front 4 of Bailey, Antonio, Gray and Reid. Either we play Davies & AJ as FBs in a back 4, go with a back 5 or Davies & Tajon focus on defense first. Jamaica used the long ball a lot in the 1st half vs Haiti

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

For the bench appearance, I try not to get too excited; we have Justin Smith who made the Nice bench, I think Liam Millar was making quite a few Liverpool bench apps, Corbeanu with Wolves as well, so on, Knight-Lebel with Bristol, etc.; especially as a centre back and not the only CB on the bench, I think it was more a question of needing the minimum number of bodies on the match day squad. Either way though, given who our other CB options are, I don't necessarily think that LDF needs to play for Fullham to play for Canada; we need guys who can play, and he's a player who can play.

I think Biello went into preservation mode at the half against Japan and that's what we saw with his uninspired substitutions; you don't want a rookie coach making it 5-0 Japan because his 17 year old youth player with 0 games of professional experience made an awful play against a very good team. On the other hand though, I don't know how much worse he could be that what we currently have out there.

I think it's "crazy" to play LDF against Jamaica just because it's so unlike Canada to give a big shot to a young player in a meaningful game, but we saw it with Kone; one good game leads to another, and all of a sudden, it's mid-2024, and we're penciling in LDF as a starter. I think it's tougher to break in a CB though- when do you make that switch? If you're down and need some offense, you bring on attacking players. If you're up and need to protect a lead, you probably bring in vets to shut the door. If you're getting blown out, might as well give some attacking players a shot to come on and score one to preserve your team ego; I guess the one scenario is where we're up by several goals with plenty of time to kill. It's a shame that guys like LDF, Koleosho, so on, weren't coming up during the WC qualifiers, because a nice game against St. Lucia would be perfect to feature LDF in.

Agree with all of this but just to nitpick...

I don't actually think Millar was on the Liverpool bench much at all, but maybe I a misremembering. He trained with the first team a lot though, maybe that's what you are thinking? He had a start for the Liverpool senior team in the FA Cup. 

I guess Smith is proving you right on the making the bench thing. I'd also like to think Smith is an exception. It seems like his loan was miscalculated and maybe that altered his trajectory a bit - or maybe I am making excuses. 

Knight-Lebel with Bristol Rovers in League One is not a valid comparison.  

Corbeanu was a player I was thinking of when I wrote my post. True he had multiple bench appearances for Wolves and actually saw the field. He also made his Canadian debut around the same time, so if anything we should expect the same treatment for LDF.

I think LDF was a victim of Biello going into preservation mode as you say. On the other hand though, he did put on Brym later in the game and Japan had taken their foot off the pedal by then, so......

[InglewoodJack]

52 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Agree with all of this but just to nitpick...

I don't actually think Millar was on the Liverpool bench much at all, but maybe I a misremembering. He trained with the first team a lot though, maybe that's what you are thinking? He had a start for the Liverpool senior team in the FA Cup. 

I guess Smith is proving you right on the making the bench thing. I'd also like to think Smith is an exception. It seems like his loan was miscalculated and maybe that altered his trajectory a bit - or maybe I am making excuses. 

Knight-Lebel with Bristol Rovers in League One is not a valid comparison.  

Corbeanu was a player I was thinking of when I wrote my post. True he had multiple bench appearances for Wolves and actually saw the field. He also made his Canadian debut around the same time, so if anything we should expect the same treatment for LDF.

I think LDF was a victim of Biello going into preservation mode as you say. On the other hand though, he did put on Brym later in the game and Japan had taken their foot off the pedal by then, so......

I could've sworn Millar made a few bench apps for Liverpool before the game he played, but it seems that wasn't the case. As for Lebel, Bristol is in the Championship. Not the level of some of our other young players, but if he's playing games in the championship at his age, that's a Canada call up most likely. They're currently 2 points up from Kone's Watford and finished last season 4 points above them, so the second he hits that pitch, he's in our plans I would think.

For Smith being an exception or expected, I think that's just the product of playing for a competitive Ligue 1 team that can't afford to sacrifice points for youth development, then gets loaned to a team that has their own competitive goals, and so he keeps sinking. The difference between his and Kone's trajectory from obscurity is that Kone got an opportunity to feature in a team that was desperate for bodies, scored a goal and never looked back. Who knows what happens if Nice suffers a big in-game injury and has to play Smith who ends up playing well? He's never had that opportunity. On the note of Justin Smith though, Transfermarkt says he played DM 5 games ago and has played the last 4 as a CM. No clue how true this is because the one Avranches game I watched he was a CB, but looking at their lineups where he's CM, they also have a DM and two CBs on the pitch, so perhaps they're playing him up the pitch. Would be very cool to see.

Agree on Corbeanu, except I think that it's easier for a coach to sub in a young and unproven winger vs. a CB. A Corbeanu mistake might lead to a failed build up or missing a chance to score a goal, but a LDF breakdown will lead to a goal, so in Biello's defence, I think he made some changes to help Canada try and tighten the game and also stop the bleeding on the defensive end. On the other hand, when you're severely outmatched by Japan, your roster is already lacking and the game is all but over, and you were never expected to win in the first place, I think it takes a bit of courage and ambition from the coach to try and get something going. Wouldn't change the score, but you sub him on at '70 and he has one beautiful slide tackle or an amazing bomb down the pitch to catch a streaking winger and all of a sudden, we're looking at the game in a very different light.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I could've sworn Millar made a few bench apps for Liverpool before the game he played, but it seems that wasn't the case. As for Lebel, Bristol is in the Championship. Not the level of some of our other young players, but if he's playing games in the championship at his age, that's a Canada call up most likely. They're currently 2 points up from Kone's Watford and finished last season 4 points above them, so the second he hits that pitch, he's in our plans I would think.

For Smith being an exception or expected, I think that's just the product of playing for a competitive Ligue 1 team that can't afford to sacrifice points for youth development, then gets loaned to a team that has their own competitive goals, and so he keeps sinking. The difference between his and Kone's trajectory from obscurity is that Kone got an opportunity to feature in a team that was desperate for bodies, scored a goal and never looked back. Who knows what happens if Nice suffers a big in-game injury and has to play Smith who ends up playing well? He's never had that opportunity. On the note of Justin Smith though, Transfermarkt says he played DM 5 games ago and has played the last 4 as a CM. No clue how true this is because the one Avranches game I watched he was a CB, but looking at their lineups where he's CM, they also have a DM and two CBs on the pitch, so perhaps they're playing him up the pitch. Would be very cool to see.

Agree on Corbeanu, except I think that it's easier for a coach to sub in a young and unproven winger vs. a CB. A Corbeanu mistake might lead to a failed build up or missing a chance to score a goal, but a LDF breakdown will lead to a goal, so in Biello's defence, I think he made some changes to help Canada try and tighten the game and also stop the bleeding on the defensive end. On the other hand, when you're severely outmatched by Japan, your roster is already lacking and the game is all but over, and you were never expected to win in the first place, I think it takes a bit of courage and ambition from the coach to try and get something going. Wouldn't change the score, but you sub him on at '70 and he has one beautiful slide tackle or an amazing bomb down the pitch to catch a streaking winger and all of a sudden, we're looking at the game in a very different light.

Ah right you are - I was mistaken on Bristol City then. I think I confused them with Bistol Rovers. The rest yeah I agree with as well on Smith and Corbeanu, etc. 

Let's just hope we cap him sooner than later to avoid a Koleosho situation.