Mataeo Bunbury

[VinceA]

7 minutes ago, solsous said:

Mataeo has been invited to train/trial with Benfica.  I hope it goes well for the kid.

Do we know yet if he actually qualifies for a Canadian passport?

[jordan]

40 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Do we know yet if he actually qualifies for a Canadian passport?

Citizenship was pending in June and have not heard since.

[solsous]

My understanding is that he has Canadian citizenship as well as passport.

[Vasi]

His dad is Canadian. Has a Canadian passport. Lived here long enough. 

He has access to citizenship. We are not talking about grandmothers with Canadian passports. 😝

 

[VinceA]

3 hours ago, Vasi said:

His dad is Canadian. Has a Canadian passport. Lived here long enough. 

He has access to citizenship. We are not talking about grandmothers with Canadian passports. 😝

 

His dad wasn't born in Canada which some here mentioned made things complicated. 

[Bison44]

3 hours ago, Vasi said:

His dad is Canadian. Has a Canadian passport. Lived here long enough. 

He has access to citizenship. We are not talking about grandmothers with Canadian passports. 😝

 

Hmm, maybe he doesnt have a gramma with a CDN passport??  I believe his mom is american...Alex born in Guyana...its never as easy as you think it is eh??  

[solsous]

3 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Hmm, maybe he doesnt have a gramma with a CDN passport??  I believe his mom is american...Alex born in Guyana...its never as easy as you think it is eh??  

His paternal grandmother/grandfather were naturalized Canadian citizens, I don't know if that helps his cause.

[Vasi]

44 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Hmm, maybe he doesnt have a gramma with a CDN passport??  I believe his mom is american...Alex born in Guyana...its never as easy as you think it is eh??  

I was refering to the Holms eligibility debate and attempted to make  joke. I see it did not work.

I have a friend who was not born her. Had a kid in Denmark. Kid did not enter canada till the age of 3, but got citizenship without touching Canadian soil. I know of a bunch more similar examples. 

Mateo is eligible.  No debate.

Now the question is weather he wants to go through the process to get it if he does not have it by now. 

 

 

[VinceA]

6 minutes ago, Vasi said:

I was refering to the Holms eligibility debate and attempted to make  joke. I see it did not work.

I have a friend who was not born her. Had a kid in Denmark. Kid did not enter canada till the age of 3, but got citizenship without touching Canadian soil. I know of a bunch more similar examples. 

Mateo is eligible.  No debate.

Now the question is weather he wants to go through the process to get it if he does not have it by now. 

 

 

I mean in theory this means Holmes mom/dad could get Canadian citizenship through the grandparent, and then Holmes gets it that way.

I'm sure its not that simple but still.

[maplebanana]

9 minutes ago, Vasi said:

I was refering to the Holms eligibility debate and attempted to make  joke. I see it did not work.

I have a friend who was not born her. Had a kid in Denmark. Kid did not enter canada till the age of 3, but got citizenship without touching Canadian soil. I know of a bunch more similar examples. 

Mateo is eligible.  No debate.

Now the question is weather he wants to go through the process to get it if he does not have it by now. 

 

 

There are two parts to eligibility: #1) Eligible to get a passport and #2) Eligible according to FIFA. You must have both.

Mataeo was born in the USA to a father (Alex) who was Canadian at the time of Mataeo's birth. Hence Mataeo is a Canadian as per the CDN govt and is eligible for a passport (#1 - check!)

For #2, as @WestHamCanadianinOxford points out, one of the following must be true:

              a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;
              b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;
              c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association;
              d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant association for at least two years.

-->

              a) no
              b) mom is full blown American. Alex was born in Guyana. So no.
              c) presumably no, for either mom or dad
              d) this is why @WestHamCanadianinOxford asked this. This is the only way he's eligible as per FIFA.

So while he may be Canadian and the son of a Canadian, unless he picks up a 2 year stint in Canada it looks like he can't represent Canada as of right now. This would also be the case for Alphonso Davies or Jonathan David's kids (if born outside Canada), but not Fikayo Tomori.

 

[solsous]

Let's hope he develops into a really good player and let the eligibility rules get figured out by CMNT and FIFA.

[Vasi]

27 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

There are two parts to eligibility: #1) Eligible to get a passport and #2) Eligible according to FIFA. You must have both.

Mataeo was born in the USA to a father (Alex) who was Canadian at the time of Mataeo's birth. Hence Mataeo is a Canadian as per the CDN govt and is eligible for a passport (#1 - check!)

For #2, as @WestHamCanadianinOxford points out, one of the following must be true:

              a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;
              b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;
              c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association;
              d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant association for at least two years.

-->

              a) no
              b) mom is full blown American. Alex was born in Guyana. So no.
              c) presumably no, for either mom or dad
              d) this is why @WestHamCanadianinOxford asked this. This is the only way he's eligible as per FIFA.

So while he may be Canadian and the son of a Canadian, unless he picks up a 2 year stint in Canada it looks like he can't represent Canada as of right now. This would also be the case for Alphonso Davies or Jonathan David's kids (if born outside Canada), but not Fikayo Tomori.

 

Well then. Happy he is not a CB. Jokes aside, thanks clearing that up.

[Bison44]

Ohhh I still got a headache reading that.  Id it just me or does this get more confusing every year?

 

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Ohhh I still got a headache reading that.  Id it just me or does this get more confusing every year?

 

Wait until FIFA implements allocation money…

[MM3/MM2/MM]

1 hour ago, maplebanana said:

This would also be the case for Alphonso Davies or Jonathan David's kids (if born outside Canada), but not Fikayo Tomori.

 

That is twisted.

[rydermike]

So in terms of naturalized parent. FIFA says if a player is eligible for that nationality (dependant on that nation's rules) by birth they qualify. What is Canada's rule? I believe it's a case of children born to a citizen are eligible for citizenship. So since Mataeo was born when Alex was already a citizen, he should be good. (I'm not positive on this, anyone know the government policy for sure? But based on the below example, I feel like it's the case) 

 

On the women's senior team, there is Simi Awujo. She played for USA at youth level before switching to Canada. She was born in the USA, appears to have played all her youth inthe US as well. Her parents were born in Nigeria, but her mother has Canadian citizenship. She's on the Canada senior national team. So it must be that if your parent is a Canadian citizen (maybe it's limited to being a citizen at the time of your birth, not a citizen later?) then you're eligible. Which would line up with Vasi's post about the Danish kid he knows. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by rydermike

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

13 hours ago, maplebanana said:

There are two parts to eligibility: #1) Eligible to get a passport and #2) Eligible according to FIFA. You must have both...

Thank you for recapping the point I have been trying to make for multiple pages on this thread.

You said it far more concisely and eloquently than I did 😊

[VinceA]

5 hours ago, rydermike said:

So in terms of naturalized parent. FIFA says if a player is eligible for that nationality (dependant on that nation's rules) by birth they qualify. What is Canada's rule? I believe it's a case of children born to a citizen are eligible for citizenship. So since Mataeo was born when Alex was already a citizen, he should be good. (I'm not positive on this, anyone know the government policy for sure? But based on the below example, I feel like it's the case) 

 

On the women's senior team, there is Simi Awujo. She played for USA at youth level before switching to Canada. She was born in the USA, appears to have played all her youth inthe US as well. Her parents were born in Nigeria, but her mother has Canadian citizenship. She's on the Canada senior national team. So it must be that if your parent is a Canadian citizen (maybe it's limited to being a citizen at the time of your birth, not a citizen later?) then you're eligible. Which would line up with Vasi's post about the Danish kid he knows. 

I could see FIFA grant clearances or exemptions in certain cases. Likeassuming Mataeo's passport is sorted he could get the green light considering his dad was raised in Canada and also is a longtime player for the Canadian national team. But I don't know if that even is a thing they do.

[InglewoodJack]

Bunbury is eligible for Canada in the same way that Sergino Dest is eligible for the US. Dest's father was born in Suriname, moved to the US as a child, and later settled in the Netherlands where Dest was born and raised and spent his entire life before the move to Barcelona. His only tie to the US was that his father lived there decades before he was born.

I think what people are pointing to as proof he isn't eligible is Article 6 of Fifa's eligibility guide, but if I'm not mistaken, that article specifically refers to players whose nationality (singular) allows them to play for multiple teams. This would be, for example, for players born and raised in the Netherlands, but suddenly want to play for Curacao- your Dutch citizenship allows you to be a citizen of Curacao as they are both part of the Kingdom of Netherlands, but if you spent your entire life in Amsterdam with two parents born and raised in Amsterdam, you could not play for Curacao unless you spent 5 years living there. This article would also render Bunbury ineligible to represent Guam or the Northern Marina Islands, to which he has citizenship via his American passport.

Article 6 is written as such: "A player, who, under the terms of art. 5, is eligible to represent more than one association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these associations only if [...]"

They say nationality not nationalities.

They also clarify:

Article 6 paragraph 1 regulates the eligibility of a player to participate for the representative teams of an MA where they hold a so-called “common nationality” (also known as “shared nationality”).

• 34.1 As described in the introduction, due to the prevailing international order several MAs represent a territory as opposed to a country.
• 34.2 Given that proof of eligibility is linked to nationality, and only countries formally grant nationality, a player may thus hold a single nationality that could be utilised to assert eligibility to represent multiple MAs.

Article 5 plainly states that if you hold the nationality of the country you wish to represent and that nationality is not tied to you being physically present in said country, you can play for said team. Bunbury is Canadian because his father is, and will be Canadian even if he never steps foot in the country.

I did think it was strange that when Birmingham announced his signing, it was pending the renewal of his P1 visa- that's the visa that artists, athletes, assorted "elite performers" need to work in the US. Not sure why this is the case, considering he came from Sporting KC (famously in the USA), and is born in Minnesota (slightly less famously in the USA).

Edited December 14, 2022 by InglewoodJack

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

6 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Bunbury is eligible for Canada in the same way that Sergino Dest is eligible for the US. Dest's father was born in Suriname, moved to the US as a child, and later settled in the Netherlands where Dest was born and raised...

If that is the case, I'm not sure Dest is eligible to play for the US. No opponent has simply bothered to contest it his eligibility.

Of course, he may have been granted a FIFA exemption like Deklan Wynne.

https://www.reuters.com/article/soccer-newzealand-olympics-idUSL3N14Z2E2

 

9 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think what people are pointing to as proof he isn't eligible....

....this article would also render Bunbury ineligible to represent Guam or the Northern Marina Islands, to which he has citizenship via his American passport.

Not what @maplebanana and I are pointing to but we agree about the part in bold.

 

13 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Article 5 plainly states that if you hold the nationality of the country you wish to represent and that nationality is not tied to you being physically present in said country, you can play for said team.

Sorry to bother you, can you repost the latest version of this text in its entirety? Without the additional criteria listed by @maplebanana , what is stopping Qatar from giving out citizenship and passports to dudes from Brazil like candy?

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

If that is the case, I'm not sure Dest is eligible to play for the US. No opponent has simply bothered to contest it his eligibility.

Dest has 23 caps for the US, with his latest being against his nation of birth- it would be shocking to me that all 23 of these teams simply forgot or chose not to contest this eligibility. Chile tried getting Ecuador banned from the World Cup because they used an ineligible player- you don't think Iran, who would've moved on with a victory against the US wouldn't have contested this case if they could?

 

6 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Of course, he may have been granted a FIFA exemption like Deklan Wynne.

https://www.reuters.com/article/soccer-newzealand-olympics-idUSL3N14Z2E2

FIFA eligibility rules changed in 2018- his exemption was given in 2016. I believe that the issue with Wynne occurred 5 years after he emigrated to NZ (emigrated in 2010, said issue occurred in 2015), so I believe the new rules would've granted him eligibility.

 

10 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Not what @maplebanana and I are pointing to but we agree about the part in bold.

What are you referring to then?

 

11 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Sorry to bother you, can you repost the latest version of this text in its entirety? Without the additional criteria listed by @maplebanana , what is stopping Qatar from giving out citizenship and passports to dudes from Brazil like candy?

Here's the full text:
1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the association of that country.

They go on to explain that a certain unnamed country was giving out citizenship that would be revoked once the player left the country, so if that's how citizenship works in your country, it doesn't apply here.

As for why Qatar doesn't do that anymore, I'm not 100% sure- but the rules differentiate nationality and citizenship. The player must hold nationality, which they define, as per the International Court of Justice as: “legal bond having at its basis a social fact of attachment, a genuine connection of existence, interests and sentiments, together with the existence of reciprocal rights and duties. It may be said to constitute the juridical expression of the fact that the individual upon whom it is conferred either directly by the law or as a result of an act of the authorities, is in fact more closely connected with the population of the state conferring nationality than with that of any other state

Mataeo Bunbury qualifies as having Canadian nationality because his father is Canadian, he has genuine ties to the country. Qatar's Almoez Ali, born in Sudan's eligibility was challenged by the UAE, and he was found eligible for Qatar because he's lived there since he was 7, meaning he has a legitimate reason to identify as Qatari. All the Brazilians who Qatar wants to call up have zero genuine ties to their country. Portuguese-born Ro-Ro is eligible for Qatar because he was capped after 5 years of living there.

[rydermike]

In the beginning of FIFA's document on eligibility it determines a distinction between Natural Eligibility and Obtained Eligibility. Natural eligibility is if through birth you are eligible to be a citizen of the country based on that country's rules. If by virtue of your birth you are eligible for citizenship, you're FIFA eligible. Any child of a Canadian citizen is eligible for citizenship, regardless of where they or their parents were born - If your parent is a Canadian citizen when you're born, you're naturally eligible for Canadian citizenship. Mateao was born to a father who is a Canadian citizen, so he's a naturally eligible Canadian citizen and thus FIFA eligible. See image (last bullet point) from https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility/already-citizen.html

 

I have it explained here. He has Natural Nationality because his dad was a Canadian citizen when he was born. All the other scenarios raised by others (the Obtained Nationality) are irrelevant because he meets the first eligibility requirement. 

https://www.canadiansoccernews.com/forums/topic/78860-fifa-eligibility-rules-summary-eligibility-and-nation-switches/

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by rydermike

[dyslexic nam]

Fack…

[solsous]

 

[VinceA]

I'm surprised Alex hasn't then had Mataeo spend a couple of years with a CPL team to get him eligible for Canada.