Sean Rea

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

My main point had nothing to do with metro population. It had to do with disposable income. All you have to do is look at the numbers. Last year CF Montreal was one of the best teams on the continent, it had one of the  worst attendance numbers in the league. It has had one of the worst attendance numbers for most of it's existence. You have to ask yourself why is that.

-demographics is the top answer. In Montreal it's still an immigrant game unlike Toronto and Vancouver and on top of that it draws from immigrants that are on the lower end of the earning scale. And to make matters worse that demographic  is not a growing one. This province does not have a stomach for increased immigration. The cities you mentioned are about on par with Montreal when it comes to economics but their populations are not splintered. The pure laine Quebecois - especially the ones with disposable income - couldn't care less about soccer. Jeeze, Canadian gridiron football, after a century of trying, can't make an inroad in this city. Major league Baseball went the way of the dodo bird.

Saputo has to be very careful with the team's finances. If he isn't, the team will be moved most likely to the states.

I know this makes sense hypothetically, and living in Quebec, I know what you are talking about, but in practice, is this actually true? I go to a fair amount of CFM games, and an overwhelming majority of people around us are "pure laine" (speak quebec french, mostly white). I do sit almost exclusively with the ultras, so maybe general admission is different.

edit: to be clear, the supporter section is diverse, but there is definitely not a lack of multi-generational quebecers in the stands.

I do agree that Montreal has a "small market mentality" when it comes to things like sports, but I suspect a big factor here is that the "pure laine" population expects a champion, because even though the Habs haven't won anything in 30 years, we expect our sports teams to be elite. The Expos weren't even that terrible towards the end, but because we weren't a playoff team, we drew 1,200/game. I think this has an effect on immigrants who like soccer, move to montreal, don't see the excitement over our team, and just continue to support whichever european teams they've always supported. My guess is that most of these soccer fans that move to montreal follow teams like Liverpool and Juventus more than CFM and MLS.

There's also the factor that no one wants to point out in that saputo stadium is very poorly placed to attract the type of audience the team wants to attract. Yes there are two metro stations within walking distance from the stadium, but most of the city's population is either on the complete other side of the metro, or completely off the metro grid. It's why there were actual serious plans to build a stadium in one of downtown's most prestigious parcels of land all to maybe attract an MLB team- a sport no one here even cares about. And if you do want to attract that high income "pure laine" fanbase from the suburbs, well, no one is going to drive to Hochelaga from Brossard or Candiac, that's for sure. It also doesn't help that IMFC rebranded specifically because they want to appeal to Montreal's French immigrant/expat community which by and large support their hometown clubs, and by and large aren't going to leave the plateau to come to the east end to watch a game. And are also by and large soccer snobs, obviously.

I think it was Renard that said that he wants CFM to be the francophone world's team- that team is probably PSG for the forseeable future, but it's an incredibly massive oversight by the club. CF Montreal should be looking at cult teams like St. Pauli, Union Berlin, Celtic, Red Star, so on. Soccer has countless examples of small markets that have built something really special, but here we are, with St. Pauli money, trying to tell our fans we're PSG.

Edited February 27, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Metro]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:33 PM, Sal333 said:

CF Montreal had a great season last year. It was one of the best teams in the MLS. It was 25th in average attendance. There are only 28 teams in the league.

Question for the Montrealers:  How much did stars like Drogba help?  Montreal may have had their best team ever last year but it did not contain the certain international stars they had in the past.

[InglewoodJack]

27 minutes ago, Metro said:

Question for the Montrealers:  How much did stars like Drogba help?  Montreal may have had their best team ever last year but it did not contain the certain international stars they had in the past.

He helped a lot- I was a lot more of a casual when he was in town, but it was by far the most exciting thing that had happened to our team. That said, I think it was during his second season where there were rumors he was going to go back to Chelsea, he missed time from the team, he refused to play at some point- I think fans (just my experience) really got the message that he didn't care much for montreal and this was just glorified rec league for him, and that soured fans.

Drogba was my favourite player growing up- I used to always cheer for the biggest underdogs at the world cup I could find, and CIV was always that underdog that would go deeper than expected.

I hope the team leverages their french connection and gets some former french stars to finish their careers here. He's still very good, but I wonder if a guy like Olivier Giroud would have any interest in coming over here next year or the year after; he's 36, and he would be one of the biggest names in the league.

Edited February 27, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

52 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

...cult teams like St. Pauli, Union Berlin, Celtic, Red Star, so on...

Celtic don't belong in that sort of category and I assume you mean the Paris Red Star rather than the Zvezda one?

[InglewoodJack]

26 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Celtic don't belong in that sort of category and I assume you mean the Paris Red Star rather than the Zvezda one?

No, I meant CZ, but I think Paris Red Star is another good one. Celtic and Red Star are both massive clubs, but the point there is that both have developed massive fan bases that are way bigger than a team of their size ought to be. I believe Celtic has the largest or top 5 largest fanbase in the world, but ultimately, they play in Scotland, and likely would be a Championship/ premier league relegation threat team in the English pyramid. Red Star is a massive club in a very small league- many Serbian teams are closer to CPL level than Champions league. Both of those clubs, including all the other ones are super closely intertwined with the culture of the cities they're based in, and people ride or die for those clubs for reasons beyond the pitch.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

OK, you are talking about something different from what I would understand as cult clubs then. St Pauli and Union Berlin emerged as alternatives to the traditionally popular club or clubs in their locality in relatively recent times. Celtic and Red Star (along with its pre-WWII predecessor that shared the same colours) always were one of those traditionally popular clubs.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[InglewoodJack]

It's both, and I think realistically, St. Pauli is probably the closest example, considering Hamburg/Montreal both live in the "shadow" of their country's biggest cities, politically/socially they're two similar cities, and both are definitively small market. My point is more that Montreal wants to compete for fans with clubs that have infinite funds and a global brand that is built on the fact that they can acquire any player in the world, whereas they need to see themselves more as a club that tears on their city's heartstrings, a perceived underdog that represents the people who come to see them. I can't fathom Celtic and Red Star going through a "bad period", but even if say, Rangers and Paritzan rattle off 3 straight titles, I doubt either club would lose a single fan, because for them, it's about the culture, not only the results. On the other hand, if PSG's owners decide to stop buying and the club sinks to being just a good Ligue 1 team, their brand would be destroyed. If Montreal sucks as hard as we think we will this year, all of the progress they've made with the city last year will be for nothing.

Edited February 27, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Ed_S]

The recent posts belong in the MLS CF Montreal thread, not in a thread for Sean Rea.

[PegCityCam]

3 chances created. Tied for most on the team.

[Sal333]

23 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I know this makes sense hypothetically, and living in Quebec, I know what you are talking about, but in practice, is this actually true? I go to a fair amount of CFM games, and an overwhelming majority of people around us are "pure laine" (speak quebec french, mostly white). I do sit almost exclusively with the ultras, so maybe general admission is different.

edit: to be clear, the supporter section is diverse, but there is definitely not a lack of multi-generational quebecers in the stands.

 

If you want the litmus test, check how much air play soccer gets on the Francophone radio stations - or even the Anglophone one.

[jonovision]

In 2023, the litmus test for anything is radio?

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

If you want the litmus test, check how much air play soccer gets on the Francophone radio stations - or even the Anglophone one.

Yeah but radio in montreal is a joke, especially now where I believe that Mitch Melnyk, perennial loser to my monday night trivia team, and Tony Marinaro are the only paid anglo radio personalities in the city. No clue what french sports radio is like, but whenever I'm at games, the press on the field is always TVA and RDS- it's pure laine interviewers interviewing players.

Maybe you're right, I just don't see immigrants over represented at soccer games. I think for things to work in Montreal, you need to spoonfeed it to the people here, and for CF Montreal that means that people can't be assed to go to Saputo. It would never happen, but the team's attendance would probably jump by 30% if they moved to the hypothetical Peel Basin park that's been promised to us in some shape or form for the last 20 years.

[narduch]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

In 2023, the litmus test for anything is radio?

There is barely any soccer talk on Toronto sports radio too

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

....Maybe you're right, I just don't see immigrants over represented at soccer games...

Are you maybe equating immigrant with visible minority? Would you easily be able to tell that someone like Joey Saputo isn't pure laine even though he's from a Sicilian immigrant family?

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Are you maybe equating immigrant with visible minority? Would you easily be able to tell that someone like Joey Saputo isn't pure laine even though he's from a Sicilian immigrant family?

Yes, because that's what we're talking about here. Sal's original point was about immigrants on the lower end of the income scale, that tends to be recent immigrants, and aside from French and Ukranians, most recent immigrants are visible minorities. I'm also basing what I'm saying having talked to, and spent time around supporters groups- they all speak english and french with the local accent (there's spanish too). Point here is that I don't think that pure laine quebeckers are completely ignorant to soccer compared to pure laine canadians or whatever, I see and hear more than enough white people with quebeckers accents.

Also, the Saputos have been in the country for decades. I don't exactly think there's a lack of italian-montrealers at our games.

[MCa]

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Yeah but radio in montreal is a joke... No clue what french sports radio is like.

For sure this guy knows what he's talking about.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, MCa said:

For sure this guy knows what he's talking about.

Me? I dunno, every time I listen to Fan 660 it’s just syndicated ESPN stuff and a few hours of local guys doing banter.

[MauditYvon]

On 2/27/2023 at 9:34 AM, InglewoodJack said:

I know this makes sense hypothetically, and living in Quebec, I know what you are talking about, but in practice, is this actually true? I go to a fair amount of CFM games, and an overwhelming majority of people around us are "pure laine" (speak quebec french, mostly white). I do sit almost exclusively with the ultras, so maybe general admission is different.

edit: to be clear, the supporter section is diverse, but there is definitely not a lack of multi-generational quebecers in the stands.

I do agree that Montreal has a "small market mentality" when it comes to things like sports, but I suspect a big factor here is that the "pure laine" population expects a champion, because even though the Habs haven't won anything in 30 years, we expect our sports teams to be elite. The Expos weren't even that terrible towards the end, but because we weren't a playoff team, we drew 1,200/game. I think this has an effect on immigrants who like soccer, move to montreal, don't see the excitement over our team, and just continue to support whichever european teams they've always supported. My guess is that most of these soccer fans that move to montreal follow teams like Liverpool and Juventus more than CFM and MLS.

There's also the factor that no one wants to point out in that saputo stadium is very poorly placed to attract the type of audience the team wants to attract. Yes there are two metro stations within walking distance from the stadium, but most of the city's population is either on the complete other side of the metro, or completely off the metro grid. It's why there were actual serious plans to build a stadium in one of downtown's most prestigious parcels of land all to maybe attract an MLB team- a sport no one here even cares about. And if you do want to attract that high income "pure laine" fanbase from the suburbs, well, no one is going to drive to Hochelaga from Brossard or Candiac, that's for sure. It also doesn't help that IMFC rebranded specifically because they want to appeal to Montreal's French immigrant/expat community which by and large support their hometown clubs, and by and large aren't going to leave the plateau to come to the east end to watch a game. And are also by and large soccer snobs, obviously.

I think it was Renard that said that he wants CFM to be the francophone world's team- that team is probably PSG for the forseeable future, but it's an incredibly massive oversight by the club. CF Montreal should be looking at cult teams like St. Pauli, Union Berlin, Celtic, Red Star, so on. Soccer has countless examples of small markets that have built something really special, but here we are, with St. Pauli money, trying to tell our fans we're PSG.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/790282/impact-soccer-popularite-montreal

Il a aussi attiré l'attention des communautés culturelles, passionnées de soccer. 

Aujourd'hui, celles-ci représentent 25 % de la clientèle de l'Impact.

And now that Drogba left they don’t go to the Stade Saputo and/or make away trips and/or watch the games. People going to the stadium are Quebecers my friend. So please stop spreading your shit.

Edit : wanted to quote Sal. Anyway, with your last posts, it also applies to you. Back to Rea.

Edited March 1, 2023 by MauditYvon

[InglewoodJack]

11 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/790282/impact-soccer-popularite-montreal

Il a aussi attiré l'attention des communautés culturelles, passionnées de soccer. 

Aujourd'hui, celles-ci représentent 25 % de la clientèle de l'Impact.

And now that Drogba left they don’t go to the Stade Saputo and/or make away trips and/or watch the games. People going to the stadium are Quebecers my friend. So please stop spreading your shit.

Edit : wanted to quote Sal. Anyway, with your last posts, it also applies to you. Back to Rea.

Have no clue why you’re coming at me. Sounds like you’re inventing an argument in your head.

[Sal333]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:21 PM, MauditYvon said:

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/790282/impact-soccer-popularite-montreal

Il a aussi attiré l'attention des communautés culturelles, passionnées de soccer. 

Aujourd'hui, celles-ci représentent 25 % de la clientèle de l'Impact.

And now that Drogba left they don’t go to the Stade Saputo and/or make away trips and/or watch the games. People going to the stadium are Quebecers my friend. So please stop spreading your shit.

Edit : wanted to quote Sal. Anyway, with your last posts, it also applies to you. Back to Rea.

First off that article is from 2016.

Secondly, the writer made a guess at the breakdown - just like I did. There are no hard verifiable stats.

Thirdly, the article itself says that the attendance increases when they get a superstar because it attracts the immigrants. Has there been a change in attendance since 2016? Last year CF Montreal was one of the best teams in the MLS, it had the fourth worst attendance numbers. Considering that immigrants make up only 22-23% of the population, the onus is on the pure laine Quebecois to grow the game, not the immigrants but Immigrants at games far outweigh their percentage of the population.

Fourthly: You want to see the difference in soccer's popularity between the immigrants and the pure laine. Sirois and Choiniere are the young players on the team. You can even throw in Piette although he's not young.  On the other side of the scale: Pantemis, Saliba, Rea, Zouhir, Assi, Vilsaint, ZBG. We won't mention Kone, and Yao who just left.

[PegCityCam]

Again...back to Rea🙏

 

[InglewoodJack]

I hope he gets to start next game. He was the only noticeable bright spot. For such an offensively challenged team, I think he can fit in to a Stephen Eustaquio role this season- just being the straw that stirs the drink.

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

I hope he gets to start next game. He was the only noticeable bright spot. For such an offensively challenged team, I think he can fit in to a Stephen Eustaquio role this season- just being the straw that stirs the drink.

Staq started out playing as a #6 in Portugal. He is very good on both sides of the ball. Rea looks more like an attacking mid. 

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Staq started out playing as a #6 in Portugal. He is very good on both sides of the ball. Rea looks more like an attacking mid. 

Agreed. I mostly was thinking of his offensive skill. Steph is 10x the player Rea is right now and way more complete, but I think if Rea can unlock his offense like Eustaquio has at Porto this season, he’ll quickly become an important piece for Montreal. 

[PegCityCam]

First start