2022 World Cup Draw

[SpursFlu]

I think the best balance of star power and maybe taking a point out of pot 1 is Portugal 

[EJsens1]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I would have traded 1st in the Octo with winning the nations league or Gold cup in a heartbeat.

I suppose..

Being first in the Octo put us in a fantastic position to clinch going into the last window and not have to rely on others to get us into Qatar. Sure there was no trophy per say, but the importance of being first throughout a lot of the qualifying, particularly the end was very important. The teams you’re competing with for a World Cup spot are behind you in the process to clinch. Maybe I’m just naive, but that seems pretty important.

This maturing version of team Canada hasn’t had a full shot at Nations League or Gold Cup. I think after this World Cup campaign, we’d feel a lot better in those competitions now.

[Redpunkfiddle]

We've gained 100 points on Costa Rica to match them since the start of WCQ last year.

Give me another year of matches before I start griping that we haven't dominated FIFA rankings in our region. Points take time to accumulate. It's an era, not a moment. We have Nations League and Gold Cup to come.

Our actual performance, which is separate from our current rankings, is fine, as we know.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Redpunkfiddle

[Obinna]

19 minutes ago, EJsens1 said:

I suppose..

Being first in the Octo put us in a fantastic position to clinch going into the last window and not have to rely on others to get us into Qatar. Sure there was no trophy per say, but the importance of being first throughout a lot of the qualifying, particularly the end was very important. The teams you’re competing with for a World Cup spot are behind you in the process to clinch. Maybe I’m just naive, but that seems pretty important.

This maturing version of team Canada hasn’t had a full shot at Nations League or Gold Cup. I think after this World Cup campaign, we’d feel a lot better in those competitions now.

Not saying it is unimportant.

In fact, I think it was critical for the group's confidence and the perception of the team in the public eye.

When it comes to the general public, World Cup qualifying is the biggest competition for Canada aside from the World Cup itself. It's bigger than Gold Cup and definitely bigger than Nations League. Perhaps anecdotal, but my soccer friends that are becoming Fairweather Canada fans very likely don't even know nations league exists and Gold Cup is barely on their radar. These guys are much more attuned to what Chelsea and Arsenal are up to. One friend in particular knew we were in Pot 4, but didn't realize that Peru is facing NZ in a playoff to join pot 4.

But for me, as a long time hardcore supporter of this program, I would take a Gold Cup or Nations League victory, because to me the trophies matter. They are the best measure of where a team stands in the region's pecking order, which is something very important to me. I care about much more about regional trophies than a Fairweather Canada fan that just tunes in to WC every 4 years and watches EPL the rest of the time. 

You aren't a golden generation without winning some gold and we haven't won any hardware yet. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Obinna

[A.D.I.D.A.S.]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

But for me, as a long time hardcore supporter of this program, I would take a Gold Cup or Nations League victory, because to me the trophies matter. They are the best measure of where a team stands in the region's pecking order, which is something very important to me.

Just realized that a continental double is a very real possibility in 2023.

[Obinna]

Just now, A.D.I.D.A.S. said:

Just realized that a continental double is a very real possibility in 2023.

I have been dreaming of it for some time now

At minimum I want this team to make the finals for both. Getting the double would be beautiful, but in a final anything can happen. Reaching the final in both would cement our place as 3rd best team in the region, IMO, regardless of whether we win or not.

I say you need gold to be a golden generation, which is true, but putting yourself in the position to get gold and just falling short counts for something. Just as I would prefer to win the Gold Cup over 1st in the Octo, I would prefer to be runner up in the Gold Cup than 2nd in the Octo.

[Gian-Luca]

TSN going all out for this tomorrow, Herdman in the studio:

https://www.tsn.ca/1.1779139

[footballfreak]

 

6 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

TSN going all out for this tomorrow, Herdman in the studio:

https://www.tsn.ca/1.1779139

Surprised he didn’t fly over to Qatar. Isn’t it typical to have someone representing each team at the draw? Maybe they decided to forego that due to Covid.

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

 

Surprised he didn’t fly over to Qatar. Isn’t it typical to have someone representing each team at the draw? Maybe they decided to forego that due to Covid.

I don't think it was logistically possible due to how late the Panama game ended.

[TGAA_Star]

59 minutes ago, narduch said:

I don't think it was logistically possible due to how late the Panama game ended.

Even so why not send DeVos or any of the other coaching stuff

[TOcanadafan]

5 hours ago, Free kick said:

Qatar 2022 Final Draw: All you need to know (fifa.com)

 

Portrait Master Template (fifa.com)

 

PS.: it was just a google search away.

Yes, I saw this and am familiar with the constraints… but they don’t explain the process of how they will achieve this in detail, because in the past they’ve done some dodgy things to avoid the potential problems.

[RS]

21 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

Even so why not send DeVos or any of the other coaching stuff

Because DeVos is in the same coaching staff as Herdman.

[Obinna]

The COVID era prompted us move to a virtual way of conducting work and business, where you don't physically need to be on location to get the job. This way of doing things is probably here for the foreseeable future.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, footballfreak said:

 

Surprised he didn’t fly over to Qatar. Isn’t it typical to have someone representing each team at the draw? Maybe they decided to forego that due to Covid.

I checked this a few weeks ago.  There's a Qatar Airways flight leaving Toronto today that arrives 3 hours before the draw.  Tight but possible

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I have been dreaming of it for some time now

At minimum I want this team to make the finals for both. Getting the double would be beautiful, but in a final anything can happen. Reaching the final in both would cement our place as 3rd best team in the region, IMO, regardless of whether we win or not.

I say you need gold to be a golden generation, which is true, but putting yourself in the position to get gold and just falling short counts for something. Just as I would prefer to win the Gold Cup over 1st in the Octo, I would prefer to be runner up in the Gold Cup than 2nd in the Octo.

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on this, setting objectives for the next few years. 

Nations League: qualify for semis this summer for next year's final round. Make the final.

Gold Cup: play another final; at some point you have to play finals to win them. 

Olympics: qualify.

Mundial u-20, u-17: qualify

Qatar: score a goal; win a match. I don't expect to get out of the group. A draw or two, and a win, a few goals. Good enough for a few players to come out with better club perspectives. A second WC, you can't expect too much, anything more than this has to be treated like a bonus.

[eramosat]

4 hours ago, apbsmith said:

Thanks for this, is what it is now, but I would have feared no team in Pot 4. Where if you watch alot of international footy... lots of very good quality teams in pot 3. The benefit to us being in pot 4 now though is if we can win vs the pot 3 team, there is a better chance the pot 3 team can take points from a pot 1 or pot 2 team which keep the standings close. Where say a team like Cameroon/Ghana/Saudia Arabia could go 0-0-3 in the group.   

So much of all this anyways will come down to the "luck of the draw": 

1) if the draw is unfavorable we will have a 50 page thread going into 2026 on how to get to pot 2. 

2)if the draw is favorable we will have all the comments saying "pot 4 was better"

Best of luck to us on Friday, may the fifa heated balls land in our favor!

Agreed on your outlook very much.  First comes the luck of the draw...then comes the actual matches, which can also go all sorts of ways on any given day. 

I'd like to play some challenging teams, maybe 1 or 2 with a big Canadian fan base too (Portugal, England, Poland where I live) just to see the stories on where Canadian fans loyalties are headed.  And just try to enjoy the experience, not gonna worry so much about winning, let alone advancing. 

First, score a goal (Canada's first WC goal, in the internet age, that's gonna be something!  think about that!!)....second, earn a point...third, give Canada and CONCACAF a good showing, maybe steal some real FIFA ranking points back into CONCACAF from other federations.

[Sal333]

32 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on this, setting objectives for the next few years. 

Nations League: qualify for semis this summer for next year's final round. Make the final.

Gold Cup: play another final; at some point you have to play finals to win them. 

Olympics: qualify.

Mundial u-20, u-17: qualify

Qatar: score a goal; win a match. I don't expect to get out of the group. A draw or two, and a win, a few goals. Good enough for a few players to come out with better club perspectives. A second WC, you can't expect too much, anything more than this has to be treated like a bonus.

You're taking the reasoned, cautious approach to expectations and I don't blame you.

What I've noticed is that soccer experts in the media and on this forum when making predictions don't size up the team in front of them but rather look at a nation's performances from their past teams and extrapolate from there. Ninety, maybe ninety-five, percent of the time they'll be right. But then there's the five, ten percent of the time when you get an Italy.

And Canada in 2022 falls into that five, ten percent of the time. This is a Pot 2 team. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. What's holding this team back in the rankings is that FIFA points like the soccer experts can't distinguish the team in from of their eyes from the  teams of days gone by. The reason Canada is in Pot 4 is not because this team of 2022 isn't on the same level as the other teams in Pot 2 but rather because the past Canadian teams were a marvel of ineptitude and FIFA's calculations are still keeping track of those past failures. Remember before Herdman took over we were down to 120-125. In four-five years we shaved off 90 spots from our rankings.  

Anything less than a trip to the knockout round (round of 16) should be considered as disappointing.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Sal333

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

You're taking the reasoned, cautious approach to expectations and I don't blame you.

What I've noticed is that soccer experts in the media and on this forum when making predictions don't size up the team in front of them but rather look at a nation's performances from their past teams and extrapolate from there. Ninety, maybe ninety-five, percent of the time they'll be right. But then there's the five, ten percent of the time when you get an Italy.

And Canada in 2022 falls into that five, ten percent of the time. This is a Pot 2 team. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. What's holding this team back in the rankings is that FIFA points like the soccer experts can't distinguish the team in from of their eyes from the  teams of days gone by. The reason Canada is in Pot 4 is not because this team of 2022 isn't on the same level as the other teams in Pot 2 but rather because the past Canadian teams were a marvel of ineptitude and FIFA's calculations are still keeping track of those past failures. Remember before Herdman took over we were down to 120-125. In four-five years we shaved off 90 spots from our rankings.  

Anything less than a trip to the knockout round (round of 16) should be considered as disappointing.

I personally believe we are a Pot 4 team. The facts actually back my position. 

One of the longest threads on this board was the Pot 3 show the other night, when really we got extremely lucky and somehow the coach thought it was not significant. Doing that was like going back in time when we seemed to play to NOT make the Hex.

You think a team that did not qualify for the last Nations League semis, and was knocked out of semis in the Gold Cup, only 9 months ago, deserves any better?

A team with the key centre back a guy on his last contract playing for Moreiense? That is Pot 4. Then a guy who plays in Belgium 2nd tier making significant contributions? Okay, it is better than a water-metre technician from Victoria, but it is not exactly the sort of roster than deserves much more. 

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

And Canada in 2022 falls into that five, ten percent of the time. This is a Pot 2 team. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. What's holding this team back in the rankings is that FIFA points like the soccer experts can't distinguish the team in from of their eyes from the  teams of days gone by. The reason Canada is in Pot 4 is not because this team of 2022 isn't on the same level as the other teams in Pot 2 but rather because the past Canadian teams were a marvel of ineptitude and FIFA's calculations are still keeping track of those past failures. Remember before Herdman took over we were down to 120-125. In four-five years we shaved off 90 spots from our rankings.  

Anything less than a trip to the knockout round (round of 16) should be considered as disappointing.

Yes but with one disclaimer.   I do agree (and I posted the record of Concacaf at the WC over the past 30 years to prove it)  that we are a pot two team.   And so is Mexico and the US.   Mexico has always made it to R16 every WC going back 30 years.  Is there any question that they are realistically a twelfth ranked side? Not to me.    I couldn't believe the mention a few pages back that Mex and the US were not at the level of Denmark.  Denmark is a country with a third of the population of Ontario.  And yet we are to believe the the Americans and the Mexicans are not at that level?  If we are as good today as Mexico and the US, then there is no reason we should fear those second tier European sides.   

The top sides in Concacaf have handled the second tier European sides at the WC.  .   Yes, four or five of the best sides in the world are Europe, but why are we letting the others in Europe ride on their coat tails by assuming that we cant handle them?.   During this time range(1994-2022), the American have beaten Portugal once at the WC and the second time they played them, Portugal salvaged a 1-1 draw at the 90th minute due to a brilliant cross by Ronaldo.  Mexico has beaten France at the WC and has always made it to R16 but has had the misfortune of running into Germany of Holland.  They have often been eliminated in R16 on Penalties or in extra time.  So we should and could expect the same. 

So i was with you up until this point but here is the disclaimer.   This our first WC in 30 years.   Nobody in this squad has been to a WC and knows the experience and what to learn from/ for it.  Historically, side like this dissappoint.       

Edited March 31, 2022 by Free kick

[Gian-Luca]

https://www.tsn.ca/Soccer/video/the-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-canada-in-fridays-world-cu~2413535

TSN's "Best & Worst Case Scenario" is:

Best case - Qatar, Uruguay, Poland, Canada

Worst case - Brazil, Germany, Senegal, Canada

They seem to be going to toughest/weakest teams on paper, without having any regard for playing style and team characteristics. I'd rather face Brazil than Uruguay for a whole host of reasons, one of which is that, although we gave up few goals in qualifying, many that we did give up came from counter-attacks (USA, Panama) and set-pieces (Costa Rica, and could have had more conceded without Borjan making some incredible saves). Not that Brazil is shit in those two categories, but bunkering/counter-attacking is Uruguay's strength and they always seems to score a bunch of goals on set pieces. Conversely, many of our goals come from transition, so facing teams that will attack us & probably underestimate us would be more suited to us (and the Brazilians pretty much underestimate everyone they play).

[EJsens1]

2 minutes ago, Free kick said:

This our first WC in 30 years.   Nobody in this squad has been to a WC and knows the experience and what to learn for it.  Historically, side like this dissappoint.       

Generally I would agree, but in this situation, if we are using the Honduras’ or Panama’s as examples, who have broken through in qualifying the last 10-12 years to make a tournament or 2, they were usually the last team to clinch a spot or get in through the playoff right? Now not that coming first in CONCACAF is the be all, end all, but I would think we have a better case to be more successful. We have much better players and depth, where teams like the Hondurans and Panamas can’t hide behind home field advantage and dubious reffing on the grand stage. Obviously there are a lot variables and luck to make this happen, but we do have a lot of players who play over seas and in stadiums where they are used to large, hostile crowds. World Cup is a bigger animal of course.

[Gian-Luca]

I think I would like either Brazil or England from Pot 1, Croatia from Pot 2 and South Korea from Pot 3.

Least ideal group for me would be Qatar, Germany, Senegal. Senegal are the best Pot 3 team, Germany failing to advance from first round two World Cups in a row is unlikely (although I would have said that Italy failing to even get to the WC two WC's in a row), and Qatar will get all the strings pulled for them just like Japan did against us in the 2001 Confederations Cup (let's not forget that) and South Korea did in 2002.

[An Observer]

After Qatar, I probably would prefer Belgium from pot 1. They are an ageing side which I think will struggle with the heat and our speed on the counter

[Addona]

58 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

https://www.tsn.ca/Soccer/video/the-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-canada-in-fridays-world-cu~2413535

TSN's "Best & Worst Case Scenario" is:

Best case - Qatar, Uruguay, Poland, Canada

Worst case - Brazil, Germany, Senegal, Canada

They seem to be going to toughest/weakest teams on paper, without having any regard for playing style and team characteristics. I'd rather face Brazil than Uruguay for a whole host of reasons, one of which is that, although we gave up few goals in qualifying, many that we did give up came from counter-attacks (USA, Panama) and set-pieces (Costa Rica, and could have had more conceded without Borjan making some incredible saves). Not that Brazil is shit in those two categories, but bunkering/counter-attacking is Uruguay's strength and they always seems to score a bunch of goals on set pieces. Conversely, many of our goals come from transition, so facing teams that will attack us & probably underestimate us would be more suited to us (and the Brazilians pretty much underestimate everyone they play).

Perhaps I just don’t know, but how is Poland an easier match up than Tunisia? Even if it’s just Robert L. and 10 other mediocre dudes, that sounds dangerous…

[ADP10]

I think we’re a pot 3 team. Definitely better than Tunisia and dare I say Iran