March 27 WCQ vs. Jamaica location?

[Shway]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

This is probably true, but you could probably charge BMO prices at BC Place and sell out. At least from a revenue perspective that should favour Vancouver, even with the cheaper rent.

BC Place is cheaper rent then BMO?

I thought Canada could play there for free or little to nothing?

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

I know I was just going 15 one way, 15 the other, it certainly could be below 0 though. 

During the triple windows games are played on Thursday - Sunday - Wednesday

The advantage of hosting the "middle" match in the January and March triple window is that the CSA can schedule a 3pm kickoff.

Hamilton would have been far more risky with a 7pm/7:30pm/8pm kickoff. It would have risked a situation like the USA vs Honduras game where is was -17°C .

The TFC home game on March 5th is a 2pm kickoff and the March 19th match is a 3pm kickoff.

 

4 hours ago, jonovision said:

The former is far likelier than the latter. In fact, it's never reached -15 C in Toronto on March 27th.

https://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_data/almanac_e.html?StationID=5051&period=30&searchMethod=contains&txtStationName=toronto&month=3&day=27

 

Statically, with an average maximum of 6.8°C , I don't know what the 95% confidence interval for the average maximum would be but I'd I will make the wild guess that it's got to above -4°C . Anything colder than -4°C between 1:30pm and 5:15pm on a March 27th would be fairly anomalous.

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, Shway said:

BC Place is cheaper rent then BMO?

I thought Canada could play there for free or little to nothing?

That's not what I am saying. I am saying that BC Place would probably make the CSA more money, despite the cheaper rent at BMO.

[Cblake]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's not what I am saying. I am saying that BC Place would probably make the CSA more money, despite the cheaper rent at BMO.

With it being the middle game with it between two matches in Central America, travel will be the main consideration. Qualifying for the World Cup is far more important than the extra dollars that would come from BC Place. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

15 minutes ago, Shway said:

BC Place

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's not what I am saying. I am saying that BC Place would probably make the CSA more money

My guess is BC Place will host the #CanWNT ~April 12th and they will fill the stadium for Labbé's final match with the team.

If not BC Place, perhaps Labbé's hometown of Edmonton. 

The Olympic Victory Tour continues in April and the CSA would receive more shit if they hosted the next match too close to the previous two games in Ottawa/Montreal.

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, Cblake said:

With it being the middle game with it between two matches in Central America, travel will be the main consideration. Qualifying for the World Cup is far more important than the extra dollars that would come from BC Place. 

No argument from me there. Just saying from a purely financial perspective BC place may be better. I have no idea of what rent costs at BC Place or BMO, but I am assuming the CSA can charge BMO prices at basically double the capacity. 

[Corazon]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

No argument from me there. Just saying from a purely financial perspective BC place may be better. I have no idea of what rent costs at BC Place or BMO, but I am assuming the CSA can charge BMO prices at basically double the capacity. 

I agree, I think Vancouver would sell out at similar prices to Toronto with a higher capacity.  However, I do remember some people posting the cost difference between playing at BMO vs anywhere else in Canada is quite significant.  I could be wrong but I seem to remember this being discussed in the last couple years on this forum.

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I agree, I think Vancouver would sell out at similar prices to Toronto with a higher capacity.  However, I do remember some people posting the cost difference between playing at BMO vs anywhere else in Canada is quite significant.  I could be wrong but I seem to remember this being discussed in the last couple years on this forum.

I would be curious to know how the rental costs compare. Does anyone have this information?

The other point to consider is that rental differential may be such that playing at BC Place may only be marginally better than BMO.

As @Cblake and others have pointed out, the location of BMO is better for travel, so BC Place would probably have to make them significantly more money to sway the decision.

Corazon, your post is making me consider just how big the rental differential is. 

[theaub]

Also isn't there something about Canada having to play a senior level match (or two) at BMO every year per some contract?  I vaguely remember this being a thing.

[Cblake]

1 minute ago, theaub said:

Also isn't there something about Canada having to play a senior level match (or two) at BMO every year per some contract?  I vaguely remember this being a thing.

That has not be part of they consideration for years. Canada played three games at BMO in the fall. That was part of things in the early days of BMO. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

4 hours ago, theaub said:

Also isn't there something about Canada having to play a senior level match (or two) at BMO every year per some contract?  I vaguely remember this being a thing.

That was prior to 2012. That hasn't been the case for about 10 years.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-44376.pdf

Since 2012, the CSA had to sell 16 000 event tickets at BMO Field per year or pay a penalty to the city of Toronto.

Since the renovations that brought the Argos to BMO Field, I'm not sure if that December 2011 contract is still in force. It may have been eliminated or further modified. I'm not sure.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

With it being the middle game with it between two matches in Central America, travel will be the main consideration. Qualifying for the World Cup is far more important than the extra dollars that would come from BC Place. 

I agreed with you originally, but now I am not sure. Reason being is that we are basically qualified now. If the CSA can make extra money from BC Place, would they walk away from it just to salvage a few hours of travel when the team is 99.8 percent in Qatar? I am not sure they would.

If you listen to Bontis the other day he was talking about how profits from WCQ get filtered down to all departments, from Futsal to Paralympic and everything in between. Even a few extra hundred grand will go a long way to sustaining some of these programs.

I think the jury is still out on what location will be more profitable, but I do suspect that with our unofficial ticket to Qatar booked the CSA will be factoring in those extra dollars more than previous rounds. 

[JamboAl]

I don’t think the decision is money.  It’s what the coaches and the players want.  Actually, scratch that, it’s what John Herdman wants.  If he wants it at BC Place, it’ll be there.  Ditto for BMO Field or anywhere else.

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I don’t think the decision is money.  It’s what the coaches and the players want.  Actually, scratch that, it’s what John Herdman wants.  If he wants it at BC Place, it’ll be there.  Ditto for BMO Field or anywhere else.

I agree, but wouldn't John Herdman have to balance the needs of the men's team (players wants, competitive advantages re travel, etc.) with any broader needs of the CSA? I assume he still wears many hats at the CSA and/or has a big picture view of what's best for the association. 

So while it's probably not as simple as just going after "money", I imagine it'll be part of their analysis, as per usual. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Obinna

[Cblake]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agreed with you originally, but now I am not sure. Reason being is that we are basically qualified now. If the CSA can make extra money from BC Place, would they walk away from it just to salvage a few hours of travel when the team is 99.8 percent in Qatar? I am not sure they would.

If you listen to Bontis the other day he was talking about how profits from WCQ get filtered down to all departments, from Futsal to Paralympic and everything in between. Even a few extra hundred grand will go a long way to sustaining some of these programs.

I think the jury is still out on what location will be more profitable, but I do suspect that with our unofficial ticket to Qatar booked the CSA will be factoring in those extra dollars more than previous rounds. 

But as it has been suggested the decision really comes to down to what John wants and what he thinks is best for the team. That is where travel comes into. The cam that has to be asked would the powers overrule John on the location of the game and what he wants? 
 

Also here is another question , do we believe Canada with all the World Cup hype sell out a game at the point regardless of opponent? It’s say a Nations League match vs Grenada at BC Place in June an automatic sellout ? That could come into play too on what they do. If you think you could sellout either Jamaica in March or NL in June Vs a minnow regardless at BC Place  do you let John have his Choice next month ?

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Cblake said:

But as it has been suggested the decision really comes to down to what John wants and what he thinks is best for the team. That is where travel comes into. The cam that has to be asked would the powers overrule John on the location of the game and what he wants? 

See my response to @JamboAl

5 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Also here is another question , do we believe Canada with all the World Cup hype sell out a game at the point regardless of opponent? It’s say a Nations League match vs Grenada at BC Place in June an automatic sellout ? That could come into play too on what they do. If you think you could sellout either Jamaica in March or NL in June Vs a minnow regardless at BC Place  do you let John have his Choice next month ?

Short answer, yes. 

Long answer: I see them selling out a Grenada match, but I see them playing a team like Grenada elsewhere. 

[SthMelbRed]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

See my response to @JamboAl

Short answer, yes. 

Long answer: I see them selling out a Grenada match, but I see them playing a team like Grenada elsewhere. 

Grenada doesn't sell out anywhere other than one of the small CanPL stadiums, World Cup ticket punched, or not. At least not unless you slash ticket prices.

[Obinna]

Just now, SthMelbRed said:

Grenada doesn't sell out anywhere other than one of the small CanPL stadiums, World Cup ticket punched, or not. At least not unless you slash ticket prices.

That's why I don't see them playing at BC Place.

I could see them selling out Winnipeg or Mosaic in Sask though, neither of which are small stadiums. 

We may not even get Grenada so I don't know how much that should factor into this discussion. 

[Cblake]

13 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Grenada doesn't sell out anywhere other than one of the small CanPL stadiums, World Cup ticket punched, or not. At least not unless you slash ticket prices.

Edmonton was pretty cheap compared to Hamilton. EDM had a range of $22-$60 where Hamilton was $35-$175. So if you go the EDM pricing route you could sellout BC place or any of the bigger stadiums for the matter. I was once at sold out Bush Stadium  in St. Louis for the US vs St. Vincent and the Grenadines , it sold about 30,000 tickets in the first day of sales. It can happen if positioned right. I do not see the CSA going smaller than say WPG, SSK for anything at this point , at least through 2022. 

[EJsens1]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's why I don't see them playing at BC Place.

I could see them selling out Winnipeg or Mosaic in Sask though, neither of which are small stadiums. 

We may not even get Grenada so I don't know how much that should factor into this discussion. 

I wonder if a sellout is realistic at stadiums like that too for minnows.  Unless it’s the States or Mexico, there will be a significant drop in attendance unless you slash ticket prices. Clearly what kind of line up you have will play a factor and I assume ticket sales would happen well before any roster announcements are made.  They’ll get a bump from being a World Cup team, but nations league in my opinion can’t hold a candle to what we’ve seen in qualifying. To many it will be almost viewed as exhibition games.  That’s why friendlies against a real world power would be more prudent 

[Cblake]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's why I don't see them playing at BC Place.

I could see them selling out Winnipeg or Mosaic in Sask though, neither of which are small stadiums. 

We may not even get Grenada so I don't know how much that should factor into this discussion. 

I just pulled Grenada out of my head , I simply meant vs a minnow. 

[Obinna]

Just now, EJsens1 said:

I wonder if a sellout is realistic at stadiums like that too for minnows.  Unless it’s the States or Mexico, there will be a significant drop in attendance unless you slash ticket prices. Clearly what kind of line up you have will play a factor and I assume ticket sales would happen well before any roster announcements are made.  They’ll get a bump from being a World Cup team, but nations league in my opinion can’t hold a candle to what we’ve seen in qualifying. To many it will be almost viewed as exhibition games.  That’s why friendlies against a real world power would be more prudent 

My thinking is that fans from the hinterlands would be clamoring to see this team, regardless of the opponent. When's the last time we played in Manitoba or Saskatchewan?

You're probably right that it may take discounted prices, because I very much doubt they'd charge BMO prices in Winnipeg or Regina considering the prices in Edmonton (and that was WCQ). 

[Cblake]

2 minutes ago, EJsens1 said:

I wonder if a sellout is realistic at stadiums like that too for minnows.  Unless it’s the States or Mexico, there will be a significant drop in attendance unless you slash ticket prices. Clearly what kind of line up you have will play a factor and I assume ticket sales would happen well before any roster announcements are made.  They’ll get a bump from being a World Cup team, but nations league in my opinion can’t hold a candle to what we’ve seen in qualifying. To many it will be almost viewed as exhibition games.  That’s why friendlies against a real world power would be more prudent 

June is interesting in that they have said that the two NL games will be in the first week of the break thus giving the CSA a chance for a high profile friendly. Say Canada gets two NL home games in June it would ease up travel. 

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Cblake said:

I just pulled Grenada out of my head , I simply meant vs a minnow. 

The only other minnow is Martinique. I suppose that puts our chances of drawing a minnow at 50/50, but honestly I don't think the casual fan is going to care if we are playing Grenada or Suriname, it's all the same. I think the casual is just going to want to see this team play, period. It's become the "cool" thing to do.

I wouldn't underestimate the potential for us to sell out a mid sized stadium in a city that doesn't get much access to the men's national team. 

[TGAA_Star]

Nations League games regardless of the opponents I'm sure will sell out no matter where we play especially since we qualify for Qatar, the interest in the team will be at an all time high.