A Gold Cup Fully Hosted by Us (no A)

[Shway]

Watching the AFCON in Cameroon, and it got me thinking about how Concacaf is the only federation that doesn’t/hasn’t fully hosted its continental tournament in another country outside the USA.  I've heard the reasoning being maximizing revenue for the competition. However they neglect their very own mandate of growing the game in other countries. 

Canada’s recent WCQ games held in Toronto against Panama, Honduras, and El Salvador and seeing the drones of fans that showed up to support their respective countries (in a pandemic), mixed in with our recent success had me thinking, is it time for us to host the Gold Cup by ourselves.

Now before there’s any backlash from the westsiders, please understand my thinking.

A lot of the negative reviews about the Gold Cup from the players has been solely around the travel demands of the tournament, where teams are travelling across the country through various timezones. It’s also harder for fans to follow their teams at reasonable lengths. No other continental tournament does this. 

What if our proposition was to maximize the diversity of our most populous provinces/cities and play games in stadiums across the EST & CST time zones. The Gold Cup is typically played in 16 host cities, Euros is 10, Asian Cup 4, AFCON is 4, COPA America is 7 (all averages).

I would propose these stadiums: 

1. BMO Field | 30K
2. State Saputo | 19,619
3. Tim Hortons Field | 23,218
4. Olympic Stadium | 56,040
5. TD Place Stadium | 24K
6. Lamport Stadium | 9,600
7. * Mosaic Stadium | 33,350 
8. * IG Field | 33,134

In this case it would remove the common practice of the double header games/prices, it would allow for strategic placing of teams, while making it easier to travel from Toronto to Ottawa or Montreal to Hamilton for teams and fans.  For example (based on Gold Cup 2019):

(there maybe an argument for stadium size, but looking at past attendances it's bloated because of the double header be paired with a bigger drawing team)

Group A
Canada vs Mexico at Stade Olympique

Group B 
Haiti vs Costa Rica at Stade Saputo

Group C
Jamaican vs El Salvador Tim Hortons Field

Group D
USA vs Panama at BMO Field
Trinidad and Tobago vs Guyana at Lamport Stadium.

We may not ever see a World Cup hosted solely by us for obvious reason, but maybe its our time for the 2025 Gold Cup!

Thoughts?

Edited February 4, 2022 by Shway

[shorty]

17 minutes ago, Shway said:

Watching the AFCON in Cameroon, and it got me thinking about how Concacaf is the only federation that doesn’t/hasn’t fully hosted its continental tournament in another country outside the USA.  I've heard the reasoning being maximizing revenue for the competition. However they neglect their very own mandate of growing the game in other countries. 

Canada’s recent WCQ games held in Toronto against Panama, Honduras, and El Salvador and seeing the drones of fans that showed up to support their respective countries (in a pandemic), mixed in with our recent success had me thinking, is it time for us to host the Gold Cup by ourselves.

Now before there’s any backlash from the westsiders, please understand my thinking.

A lot of the negative reviews about the Gold Cup from the players has been solely around the travel demands of the tournament, where teams are travelling across the country through various timezones. It’s also harder for fans to follow their teams at reasonable lengths. No other continental tournament does this. 

What if our proposition was to maximize the diversity of our most populous provinces/cities and play games in stadiums across the EST & CST time zones. The Gold Cup is typically played in 16 host cities, Euros is 10, Asian Cup 4, AFCON is 4, COPA America is 7 (all averages).

I would propose these stadiums: 

1. BMO Field | 30K
2. State Saputo | 19,619
3. Tim Hortons Field | 23,218
4. Olympic Stadium | 56,040
5. TD Place Stadium | 24K
6. Lamport Stadium | 9,600
7. * Mosaic Stadium | 33,350 
8. * IG Field | 33,134

In this case it would remove the common practice of the double header games/prices, it would allow for strategic placing of teams, while making it easier to travel from Toronto to Ottawa or Montreal to Hamilton for teams and fans.  For example (based on Gold Cup 2019):

(there maybe an argument for stadium size, but looking at past attendances it's bloated because of the double header be paired with a bigger drawing team)

Group A
Canada vs Mexico at Stade Olympique

Group B 
Haiti vs Costa Rica at Stade Saputo

Group C
Jamaican vs El Salvador Tim Hortons Field

Group D
USA vs Panama at BMO Field
Trinidad and Tobago vs Guyana at Lamport Stadium.

We may not ever see a World Cup hosted solely by us for obvious reason, but maybe its our time for the 2025 Gold Cup!

Thoughts?

There will always be logistical issues but unless we aim for it, it won’t ever happen. 

[jonovision]

If you could find a way to convince CONCACAF that we can sell 80k tickets each to 5 or 6 separate Mexico games, they might let us host. Otherwise I think we're out of luck.

[gator]

I agree we could and should host a GC and as the OP states we have the stadiums, the problem is the money as always SUM or whoever staged this event in the US always counted on that huge crowd for the US/Mexico final which was already choreographed! Maybe we could get a group with Canada in it to begin with, I have wondered why we only ever hosted one match in this competition!

[theaub]

Was saying in another thread I think its extremely logical that we will host a group in '23/'25 as WC prep.  Games in Toronto, Edmonton and whatever third city hops on.

Unfortunately it makes far too much financial sense for CONCACAF to host the knockout stage in the US.

[EJsens1]

8 minutes ago, theaub said:

Was saying in another thread I think its extremely logical that we will host a group in '23/'25 as WC prep.  Games in Toronto, Edmonton and whatever third city hops on.

Unfortunately it makes far too much financial sense for CONCACAF to host the knockout stage in the US.

I wonder if North America will get a chance to host the FIFA Club World Cup in ‘25 and if Canada would see some games.  You’d have to think so.

As for the Gold Cup, would be great to see some games here in Canada. I’ve said this before but CONCACAF needs to try to do something with CONMEBOL for a tournament.

[Shway]

32 minutes ago, gator said:

I agree we could and should host a GC and as the OP states we have the stadiums, the problem is the money as always SUM or whoever staged this event in the US always counted on that huge crowd for the US/Mexico final which was already choreographed! Maybe we could get a group with Canada in it to begin with, I have wondered why we only ever hosted one match in this competition!

Is the sum factor based on the ability to sell tickets? 

I think other than the obvious juggernauts in Mexico and USA, without double headers the results aren’t impressive.

And there’s gotta be the argument that Mexicans and Americans will travel in drones for these games in major Canadian cities like Toronto and Montreal. 

I don’t want to see the bullshit of split hosting and we only get 4 games in Canada.

I think we’re ripe for hosting this, and I’ll be honest to say I’m not excited for the America and friends WC hosting in 26. 

[CanadaFan123]

21 minutes ago, theaub said:

Unfortunately it makes far too much financial sense for CONCACAF to host the knockout stage in the US.

For now but if Canada can maintain this popularity and level through to 2026 (and I see no reason they shouldn’t) one would expect us to be a popular spot to host. A knockout game at BC Place would have no problem drawing with any 2 of Mexico, US and Canada playing. 

[Shway]

My other point is that if it can’t be hosted solely by a few Canadian cities, then at least make the tournament more localized to certain parts of the countries and rotate it.
West (Seattle, Vancouver, Portland, California)
Northeast (Toronto, Montreal, NY, NJ, Philly) 
South (Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte)

Make it easier for fans and players. 

[Cblake]

Is Canada at the point that say BMO would be sold out regardless of who they are playing? If its vs. Suriname, Guadeloupe etc is BMO packed riding on the World Cup momentum. Guess we may find out in June with Nation's League? If you can do that then the Gold Cup could make sense in some way.

The double header issue is interesting in the sense if you do not have them, you are going to have to schedule a lot of lightly attended games. As we all know when the US, Mexico etc. are playing the stadium is pretty empty for whomever they are playing. I mean you have the bigger game at BC Place, the minnow game in Victoria, something like that. Same in Edmonton and Calgary. 

[Cheeta]

The integrity of the competion has to count for something doesn't it?  Otherwise, why bother?

The USA as perpetual host for the Gold Cup is a detriment to the status of that competition.  I am not the 1st person to say this.  That is no great revelation.  Directly or indirectly that hurts all footballers in this region and the standing of the region itself. 

The smoke and mirrors of inflating attendence numbers with double headers, marrying a weaker draw to a premier draw through combined ticket sales lost the illusion long ago.  So again, why bother?  Who are you kidding?  Let the revenue matches prop up the tourney and let the net loss fixtures fill in the schedule.  Neither is going away. 

The Mexican supporters aren't going to stop buying tickets because the new price doesn't include admission to El Salvador vs Suriname.

The Salvadorians aren't going to not go to the match against Suriname because the ticket price doesn't include the Mexico vs Haiti match that follows. 

And the optic of empty venues for low draw matches already exists.  You're not fooling anyone.  So again, why bother?

Could Regina and Winnipeg split the 12 matches of a group that didn't include Canada and be successful?  Don't know.  But if you peel away the current accounting trickery I think I'd be willing to bet the novelty of such a scheme would be just about enough that CONCACAF wouldn't be any worse off than the current structure.

And you would introduce some competitive integrity back into the tourney.  And that's one of those intangibles that's hard to write into a spread sheet. 

So yes.  An idea worth exploring.  

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Cheeta

[Joe MacCarthy]

I don't think the artificial turf would be too popular

[TGAA_Star]

A Gold Cup hosted completely by Canada as a sole host

Hypothetical stadiums I would use:

1- BMO Field (Toronto)

2- Stade Saputo (Montreal)

3- BC Place (Vancouver)

4- Commonwealth Stadium (Edmonton)

5- TD Place (Ottawa)

6- IG Field (Winnipeg)

7- Tim Hortons Field (Hamilton)

8- McMahon Stadium (Calgary)

[gigi riva]

3 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

A Gold Cup hosted completely by Canada as a sole host

Hypothetical stadiums I would use:

1- BMO Field (Toronto)

2- Stade Saputo (Montreal)

3- BC Place (Vancouver)

4- Commonwealth Stadium (Edmonton)

5- TD Place (Ottawa)

6- IG Field (Winnipeg)

7- Tim Hortons Field (Hamilton)

8- McMahon Stadium (Calgary)

McMahon Stadium is a dump  I would  rather see it Moncton. The rest I agree with

[TGAA_Star]

8 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

McMahon Stadium is a dump  I would  rather see it Moncton. The rest I agree with

Your opinion but let's just agree to disagree here. But I'm at least glad you can agree with the rest of my list though.

[dyslexic nam]

I think this argument has been made a number of times but it always comes down to money.  Agree that the integrity of the competition and a basic sense of fairness should dictate that it move around but it doesn’t seem like the powers that be agree.   It is sort of like us hosting the World Juniors so often - at some point organizers just follow the money. 

The only silver lining is that the luxury of frequently playing at home leaves the US with relatively less experienced playing in hostile away environments which hopefully disadvantages them at other times.  

[Obinna]

I like the idea in principal but I have accepted the reality of GC being permanently hosted in the United States. It's lame to have the USA host in perpetuity, but nations league more than makes up for it.

The nations league group stage gives us two home and away games, with at least one set being against a strong team. 

The Semi and Final of nations league have a better chance of getting rotated to Canada and Mexico than the Gold Cup does. 

[Metro]

11 hours ago, Cheeta said:

The integrity of the competion has to count for something doesn't it?  Otherwise, why bother?

The USA as perpetual host for the Gold Cup is a detriment to the status of that competition.  I am not the 1st person to say this.  That is no great revelation.  Directly or indirectly that hurts all footballers in this region and the standing of the region itself. 

The smoke and mirrors of inflating attendence numbers with double headers, marrying a weaker draw to a premier draw through combined ticket sales lost the illusion long ago.  So again, why bother?  Who are you kidding?  Let the revenue matches prop up the tourney and let the net loss fixtures fill in the schedule.  Neither is going away. 

The Mexican supporters aren't going to stop buying tickets because the new price doesn't include admission to El Salvador vs Suriname.

The Salvadorians aren't going to not go to the match against Suriname because the ticket price doesn't include the Mexico vs Haiti match that follows. 

And the optic of empty venues for low draw matches already exists.  You're not fooling anyone.  So again, why bother?

Could Regina and Winnipeg split the 12 matches of a group that didn't include Canada and be successful?  Don't know.  But if you peel away the current accounting trickery I think I'd be willing to bet the novelty of such a scheme would be just about enough that CONCACAF wouldn't be any worse off than the current structure.

And you would introduce some competitive integrity back into the tourney.  And that's one of those intangibles that's hard to write into a spread sheet. 

So yes.  An idea worth exploring.  

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

10000% agreed regarding the integrity of the competition.  In fact, I should add a couple of more zeroes...

Regarding the US, what I have always wondered is why haven't players or coaches said to the USSF, "hey guys, maybe the reason we struggle in away WC qualifiers is due to the lack of playing in hostile environments in other occasions like the Gold Cup."  I think have heard only Kristian Jack raise this question and NO American pundit.

And its not like all of the group stage doubleheaders are sell outs in the US.  Would CONCACAF really take a major hit if it was held in Canada?

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, Metro said:

10000% agreed regarding the integrity of the competition.  In fact, I should add a couple of more zeroes...

Regarding the US, what I have always wondered is why haven't players or coaches said to the USSF, "hey guys, maybe the reason we struggle in away WC qualifiers is due to the lack of playing in hostile environments in other occasions like the Gold Cup."  I think have heard only Kristian Jack raise this question and NO American pundit.

And its not like all of the group stage doubleheaders are sell outs in the US.  Would CONCACAF really take a major hit if it was held in Canada?

Because honest self reflection is difficult. 

[Approve My Account Pls]

24 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I like the idea in principal but I have accepted the reality of GC being permanently hosted in the United States. It's lame to have the USA host in perpetuity, but nations league more than makes up for it.

The nations league group stage gives us two home and away games, with at least one set being against a strong team. 

The Semi and Final of nations league have a better chance of getting rotated to Canada and Mexico than the Gold Cup does. 

I agree this is the most likely scenario. Although I wish CONCACAF would get fun with it. Even just hosting in the US, there's still some large amounts of travel. I wish they'd explore something where there's no definitive host country until the knock out rounds. For example, you have 4 "regions" hosting the group stage: 

- CAN/US: maybe Montreal, Toronto, and two close American cities

- Mexico

- Carribean

- Central America

That would decrease the burden on whatever host country would host QF, SF, and Finals and you'd only need 3-4 good venues to host that. Let's be real, even when hosted in America, the majority of the matches are empty. Maybe putting earlier matches in other markets will fill those seats.

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

I agree this is the most likely scenario. Although I wish CONCACAF would get fun with it. Even just hosting in the US, there's still some large amounts of travel. I wish they'd explore something where there's no definitive host country until the knock out rounds. For example, you have 4 "regions" hosting the group stage: 

- CAN/US: maybe Montreal, Toronto, and two close American cities

- Mexico

- Carribean

- Central America

That would decrease the burden on whatever host country would host QF, SF, and Finals and you'd only need 3-4 good venues to host that. Let's be real, even when hosted in America, the majority of the matches are empty. Maybe putting earlier matches in other markets will fill those seats.

I could be wrong but I think caribbean and central american venues would be poor draws if the host country isn't playing. So then it becomes a matter of who do you want to give a home game to, which is fine I suppose. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Obinna

[CanadaFan123]

5 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

I agree this is the most likely scenario. Although I wish CONCACAF would get fun with it. Even just hosting in the US, there's still some large amounts of travel. I wish they'd explore something where there's no definitive host country until the knock out rounds. For example, you have 4 "regions" hosting the group stage: 

- CAN/US: maybe Montreal, Toronto, and two close American cities

- Mexico

- Carribean

- Central America

That would decrease the burden on whatever host country would host QF, SF, and Finals and you'd only need 3-4 good venues to host that. Let's be real, even when hosted in America, the majority of the matches are empty. Maybe putting earlier matches in other markets will fill those seats.

In the 2019 Gold Cup matches were played in Jamaica and Costa Rica. They drew 17k~ and 19k~ respectively. 

Not bad but certainly a lower gate than anywhere in the States. It would be great to have entire groups elsewhere though. A nice week long trip to Panama to watch 3 Canada matches? Yes please. 

[archer21]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think this argument has been made a number of times but it always comes down to money.  Agree that the integrity of the competition and a basic sense of fairness should dictate that it move around but it doesn’t seem like the powers that be agree.   It is sort of like us hosting the World Juniors so often - at some point organizers just follow the money. 

The only silver lining is that the luxury of frequently playing at home leaves the US with relatively less experienced playing in hostile away environments which hopefully disadvantages them at other times.  

Bringing up the World Juniors is a pretty similar situation actually. It would be nice if they rotated like World Juniors does, even if it is often in USA. Why not rotate between USA and some other country each tournament? They’d still host every 4 years, which is how often other tournaments are played anyways. 

[ted]

14 hours ago, Shway said:

Now before there’s any backlash from the westsiders, please understand my thinking.

A lot of the negative reviews about the Gold Cup from the players has been solely around the travel demands of the tournament, where teams are travelling across the country through various timezones. It’s also harder for fans to follow their teams at reasonable lengths. No other continental tournament does this. 

I highlighted the last line here because it is crucial to the, "no one else does it" argument. With few exceptions (China in 2004 being an example) none of these tournaments have been played in countries approaching our size. The World Cup in Russia had huge distances and had to work hard to overcome this issue.

The thing is, the issue is simple to overcome but spineless organizers give in to whiners (like me) who want the "home" team to be everywhere. The solution is simply to organize the tournament into 4 provinces (BC, AB, ON, PQ) with two stadiums/cities each:
Group stage: two stadiums (ie. Vancouver & Victoria, Edmonton & Calgary, etc)
First Knock-out: games played between adjacent groups (ie. the two above)
Quarterfinals: one in each province with half the teams travelling
Semifinals & Finals: biggest stadiums regardless of location.

And yes, this solution would mean that most of Canada would not get to attend CMNT games for the bulk of the tournament but so long as they switched to the other side for the Semis and final I'd be willing to take my lumps. Not everyone gets to attend a live match.

[Shway]

The world juniors within the past 10 years have brought the tournament to Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, and the USA outside of rotating it with Canada.

They also are an example for how it’s setup by having a host city! 

In life is it’s better to try something and if it fails - it fails. You learn from your mistakes, adjust or never do it again. Butt you can’t fail without trying. How do they/we have it all figured out that it won’t work.

We gotta kill the passive mentality as Canadians that we can’t do shit on our own. I hate it.