Lukas MacNaughton

[canuckgbp]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Is he blooming late or was he just missed/ignored?

I believe he was a midfielder in university? Not sure when he exactly transitioned to CB. So maybe it’s all just falling into place for him later on. 
 

Edit- just looked, 2 of 4 years were at defensive midfielder spot. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by canuckgbp

[Shway]

I say lack of opportunity, and I'm sure they (Waterman, Farsi, Borges, Loturi, Farsi, Abzi, etc) would all agree.

Thank god for the CPL.

 

[Kent]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:36 PM, Shway said:

I say lack of opportunity, and I'm sure they (Waterman, Farsi, Borges, Loturi, Farsi, Abzi, etc) would all agree.

Thank god for the CPL.

 

That's perfect. As I read through (most of) the last couple pages I was just waiting to get to the end and post "I thought the main reason we made the CPL was so we don't have to talk about which MLS teams are worse at developing talent for the CMNT anymore." Then I see the last message was mentioning the CPL, then silence for 3 days... until I screw it up with this one.

[Ruffian]

I think with CPL and MLS teams we are way ahead with player development than we were 10 years ago. It used to be that a lot of our youth and club coaches were players with US college experience or just youth competitive experience. This next generation of coaches will have a huge talent pool to pull from where many of them will be ex CPL/MLS players with 3 plus years of professional experience. That is a huge step up in youth coach's experience to pass on.

[dyslexic nam]

Me hoping to read about LM:

 

[narduch]

37 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Me hoping to read about LM:

 

Speaking of LM. Cards? 😁

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Ruffian said:

I think with CPL and MLS teams we are way ahead with player development than we were 10 years ago. It used to be that a lot of our youth and club coaches were players with US college experience or just youth competitive experience. This next generation of coaches will have a huge talent pool to pull from where many of them will be ex CPL/MLS players with 3 plus years of professional experience. That is a huge step up in youth coach's experience to pass on.

Great post and to add to this: the US and Canada both called up college players within the last 10 years (Jordan Morris and Cyle Larin). I don’t think we’ll ever see that happen again. 

[dyslexic nam]

13 minutes ago, narduch said:

Speaking of LM. Cards? 😁

Fair.   Will get it sorted.   I am off this week so will PM you and the others.   

[Aird25]

54 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Me hoping to read about LM:

 

He's doing pretty well in Nashville starting 4/5 Leagues cup games (advancing to at least the semis which are today), and 10/11 MLS games he was available for (they are firmly in a playoff spot)

[RS]

17 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Great post and to add to this: the US and Canada both called up college players within the last 10 years (Jordan Morris and Cyle Larin). I don’t think we’ll ever see that happen again. 

Ever is a long time, especially in Canada's case.

Hell, the player this thread is supposed to be about is a university product.

[Aird25]

25 minutes ago, RS said:

Ever is a long time, especially in Canada's case.

Hell, the player this thread is supposed to be about is a university product.

MacNaughton is a product of many systems in a few countries. There's no doubt in my mind that he improved during his time at Pacific. The same is probably true of the clubs before and after. That's a good thing

Edited August 15, 2023 by Aird25

[RS]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

MacNaughton is a product of many systems in a few countries. There's no doubt in my mind that he improved during his time at Pacific. The same is probably true of the clubs before and after

Just as Larin improved during his time at Orlando and Morris improved in Seattle.

I agree with @CanadaFan123 that it's extremely unlikely that either Canada or (especially) the United States will call another active college player, I don't think it's impossible.

Our program could go through another down period (and given the state of the program, that's not entirely out of the question), at which point a standout NCAA player would become an option. I don't think it'll happen, especially with the growth of CPL and continued investment by the MLS clubs in their academies, but there's always a Jim Carrey-esque chance.

[Aird25]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

Just as Larin improved during his time at Orlando and Morris improved in Seattle.

I agree with @CanadaFan123 that it's extremely unlikely that either Canada or (especially) the United States will call another active college player, I don't think it's impossible.

Our program could go through another down period (and given the state of the program, that's not entirely out of the question), at which point a standout NCAA player would become an option. I don't think it'll happen, especially with the growth of CPL and continued investment by the MLS clubs in their academies, but there's always a Jim Carrey-esque chance.

We'll see. A player is a player though and they don't always develop or get identified at the same age. Especially if they're outside typical scouting zones. I'm not exactly confident our professional system is established enough to catch everyone at a young age yet. It's improving, but we still lose players left and right before they even make an impact here. The college/university system is a good one for those on the fringes of professional soccer

[RS]

21 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

We'll see. A player is a player though and they don't always develop or get identified at the same age. Especially if they're outside typical scouting zones. I'm not exactly confident our professional system is established enough to catch everyone at a young age yet. It's improving, but we still lose players left and right before they even make an impact here. The college/university system is a good one for those on the fringes of professional soccer

I don't think we're disagreeing here.

There will still be several players who play NCAA/CIS, turn pro and then find their way to the national team. I don't think that's going to end for quite a while, if ever.

What is extremely unlikely is a player being called to the CANMNT while still a college player. Larin in 2014 was the most recent (and Morris that same year for the USMNT), and should be the final one. However, as I said earlier, I still think it's a very remote possibility in the future, especially if Canada Soccer doesn't find a way to maintain the current standard of MNT player. 

[Gian-Luca]

Interesting that Nashville is bringing McNaughton all the way up to the opposite side of the field to take attacking long throws into the box - they nearly scored on one late in the first half against Monterrey

[Aird25]

MacNaughton and Schaffelberg get Miami in the final as well as a CCL berth

[CanadaFan123]

Got away with a clear PK last night (imo). I don’t see him ever being a Canada player but it’s great that we have guys at this level who aren’t even in contention. 

[Ruffian]

12 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Got away with a clear PK last night (imo). I don’t see him ever being a Canada player but it’s great that we have guys at this level who aren’t even in contention. 

I have been negative about MacNaughton before but we don't really have anybody way ahead of him. he is in the mix because of that. He is the starting CB for a team that just made the final of the League's Cup.

[Bigandy]

16 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

I have been negative about MacNaughton before but we don't really have anybody way ahead of him. he is in the mix because of that. He is the starting CB for a team that just made the final of the League's Cup.

I would say we have 10 guys ahead of him with only 8,9,10 considered in the same category as mcnaughton. Thats so far down the pecking order that there would have to be an extreme amount of unluckiness before he gets a call. Now add that it may be better to blood a guy like stefanovic instead of having a almost 30 CB sit on the bench and theres not tons of optimism for a CMNT call up. Hes not out of contention but theres gotta be a big swing to bring him in. 
1. vitoria
2. Miller
3. AJ (if we play 3atb)
4. Mcgraw
5. Bombito
6. Cornleius
7. Kennedy
8. Zator
9. Heibert
10. Waterman

Some potential youngsters who could surpass him in the next year or 2. 
1. stefanovic
2. Pearlman 
3. Knight Lebel
4. Nimick? Maybe...who knows.... long shot 
5. LDF if he commits
6. smith? Maybe... CDM.... Who knows 
7 Ferkranus...? 

 

[Ruffian]

2 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I would say we have 10 guys ahead of him with only 8,9,10 considered in the same category as mcnaughton. Thats so far down the pecking order that there would have to be an extreme amount of unluckiness before he gets a call. Now add that it may be better to blood a guy like stefanovic instead of having a almost 30 CB sit on the bench and theres not tons of optimism for a CMNT call up. Hes not out of contention but theres gotta be a big swing to bring him in. 
1. vitoria
2. Miller
3. AJ (if we play 3atb)
4. Mcgraw
5. Bombito
6. Cornleius
7. Kennedy
8. Zator
9. Heibert
10. Waterman

Some potential youngsters who could surpass him in the next year or 2. 
1. stefanovic
2. Pearlman 
3. Knight Lebel
4. Nimick? Maybe...who knows.... long shot 
5. LDF if he commits
6. smith? Maybe... CDM.... Who knows 
7 Ferkranus...? 

 

The only people I would have ahead of him for sure are Vitoria, Miller and AJ. That is it. Lukas is the starting CB for a team that is, right now, better than all of those other player's teams.

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Got away with a clear PK last night (imo). I don’t see him ever being a Canada player but it’s great that we have guys at this level who aren’t even in contention. 

He's already a Canada player, but if you mean you don't ever see him being a starter for our best team I could see where you are coming from.

That said, we could do worse than a guy who will start for Nashville in the Leagues Cup final. I am not penciling him into our starting 11, but it feels like he should earn a few more caps this cycle. MacNaughton, Zator, Waterman and McGraw are the right-footed CB options behind Vitoria and one could argue that MacNaughton should be top of that list.

But speaking of CanPL bred CBs, I wonder if there's still time for Didic to make a move to MLS. He's regarded as one of the top players in the league and he's spent time in MLS before with SKC. Like all these other guys he's in his prime and moving to MLS would/should put him right in the mix when we see how Waterman and MacNaughton have adapted and even thrived in MLS.

[Bigandy]

4 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

The only people I would have ahead of him for sure are Vitoria, Miller and AJ. That is it. Lukas is the starting CB for a team that is, right now, better than all of those other player's teams.

I respect your opinion but I would say its quite clear that all those other guys (with the exception of waterman and maybe hiebert) are clear of him in the eyes of the coaching staff.  

If you break it down further, he probably lacks the mobility to play at RCB. He also is much better when the play is in front of him. That limits his value to the national team to playing the vitoria role. 

Kennedy and cornelius are definintely much higher than LM on the depth chart and would likely fill the central CB role if vitoria and ZMG cant go. Bombito may even get the look before LM. 

Now consider our lack of aerially presence and ZMG/vitoria/bombito all provide more value in this area. 

Sure he may be performing well in a system that suits him on a good MLS team, but once you look at what his skillset offers CMNT vs others, i think it becomes clearer that hes not the best option regardless of if he is technically a better player or not.  Its the same reason for why I dont believe waterman will ever contribute meaningfully to CMNT. 

[Ansem]

19 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

1. vitoria
2. Miller
3. AJ (if we play 3atb)
4. Mcgraw
5. Bombito
6. Cornleius
7. Kennedy
8. Zator
9. Heibert
10. Waterman

No way Cornelius is that low - let alone Bombito and Mcgraw ahead of him. In a world where we don't play guys out of position (AJ at RB), Cornelius should be #1 on that list.

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

No way Cornelius is that low - let alone Bombito and Mcgraw ahead of him. In a world where we don't play guys out of position (AJ at RB), Cornelius should be #1 on that list.

I should have clarified that my list wasnt in order. Just the guys I think are ahead of LM. 

[Obinna]

36 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I should have clarified that my list wasnt in order. Just the guys I think are ahead of LM. 

That's a big list ahead of LM - but you could make a case for them all. 

At the same time you could do the reverse for most of the names. I can find arguments that LM is ahead of Heibert, Bombito, Zator, Waterman and even McGraw. Each of these guys have single-digit caps and all besides Bombito are basically the same age and stage in their careers. They are all basically interchangable in my eyes. None are standouts and all are servicable. 

Bombito is the odd ball, very young but lacks experience and raw so prone to errors.