Tani Oluwaseyi

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

I like this a lot. Aside from the "do you want to live there ... right now?" factor, this is an excellent semi step up. Oluwaseyi is fairly green and has never played outside the US. He's not going to go to a top Euro league and unlikely to go to a top club in a second rate Euro league like Turkey or Switzerland or Belgium.

Why not? Promise David went to USG who finished second in Belgium last year and I would argue is much less tested. Choiniere went to Grasshoppers too. Even Sam Adekugbe went to galatasaray and he was obviously much more known in Turkey when that happened, but it was clearly a big step up. 

[narduch]

20 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

To engage with this more seriously though, the translation makes it seem like a done deal? Though when I name search him up on Twitter, no other Israeli sources make mention of it, so assume this is similar to any of the Jonathan David rumours of this team or that team liking him.

 

Macabbi fans are all up in his IG comments though.

Could just be a Google translate error on the verb tense

[Obinna]

I will echo what has been said......putting aside the geopolitical considerations.....it is not a bad move....and in some ways it reminds me of Choiniere going to Grasshoppers. You drop a level just to get your foot in the door, then bet on your talent pushing you on to greener pastures. I think that will be easier for him as a striker, since goals get you noticed, but like Choiniere, Tani is not super young. Therefore, I think he needs to take a move now and strike while the iron is hot. I wish it were in another country, both from a geopolitical perspective and even a footballing perspective, but it is a club that dominates the league, which means he will score goals, perhaps leading to a move somewhere like AEK Athens in the near future. 

In summary, I would have preferred Western Europe, as we have seen Belgium and Holland are linked, but if he wants to be in Europe he needs to move now. The club level seems right, and let us not forget he was playing in USL like a year ago. To go from that to a club that should feature in Europa League or Conference League is a pretty good outcome, even if it is Israel. 

[InglewoodJack]

I know we probably don’t want to talk about the elephant in the room re: playing in Israel, but to tie that very thing back to sporting- the ISL’s quality has steadily declined due to a drop in foreign talent over the last few years: https://www.ynetnews.com/culture/article/bj4ar1x00c

This is like when Richie Enin went to Russia a few years ago and we thought it would be this whole thing for us- player going to a top league like RSL is great! Until you realize that a lot of the foreign talent that made them a top 8-10 league in the world had left during the war. I think we’re going to see a decline in league quality over the next few seasons as players leave and do not get replaced, and the foreigners who choose to follow money over quality will increasingly move towards Saudi Arabia, UAE, or MLS. 

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I will echo what has been said......putting aside the geopolitical considerations.....it is not a bad move....and in some ways it reminds me of Choiniere going to Grasshoppers. You drop a level just to get your foot in the door, then bet on your talent pushing you on to greener pastures. I think that will be easier for him as a striker, since goals get you noticed, but like Choiniere, Tani is not super young. Therefore, I think he needs to take a move now and strike while the iron is hot. I wish it were in another country, both from a geopolitical perspective and even a footballing perspective, but it is a club that dominates the league, which means he will score goals, perhaps leading to a move somewhere like AEK Athens in the near future. 

In summary, I would have preferred Western Europe, as we have seen Belgium and Holland are linked, but if he wants to be in Europe he needs to move now. The club level seems right, and let us not forget he was playing in USL like a year ago. To go from that to a club that should feature in Europa League or Conference League is a pretty good outcome, even if it is Israel. 

After a quick search is seems that Maccabi Hafia actually got knocked out of Conference League in the 2nd qualifying round. 

In my view, this move could make sense if he plays there a season or two at most, but since he will get no European ball this year, it really downgrades the move for me. A big pro to this move would be getting to play teams in Conference League, but he will not get that. 

[The Real Marc]

49 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Why not? Promise David went to USG who finished second in Belgium last year and I would argue is much less tested. Choiniere went to Grasshoppers too. Even Sam Adekugbe went to galatasaray and he was obviously much more known in Turkey when that happened, but it was clearly a big step up. 

For big clubs I was thinking Bruges or Olympiacos or Sturm Graz. Fener or Young Boys. That sort of thing. I wouldn't put USG and Grasshoppers as big clubs but to each their judgment. Choinière has four years of MLS experience and Adekugbe flopped at Gala despite having a track record in the league itself.

I mean, it's possible. But to me, Tani is hot and untested. M Haifa aren't a rinky dink outfit. He could wait for better, and may be he will, but that risks going cold and losing the profile. But of course, anything could happen.

Edited September 13 by The Real Marc

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, The Real Marc said:

For big clubs I was thinking Bruges or Olympiacos or Sturm Graz. I wouldn't put USG and Grasshoppers as big clubs but to each their judgment. Choinière has four years of MLS experience and Adekugbe flopped at Gala despite having a track record in the league itself.

I mean, it's possible. But to me, Tani is hot and untested. M Haifa aren't a rinky dink outfit. He could wait for better, and may be he will, but that risks going cold and losing the profile. But of course, anything could happen.

For big, I would just consider teams that are/could play in Europe. USG, yes, Grasshoppers not so much, but I doubt the salaries in Israel are higher than Switzerland- from what I understand, money in Israeli sports flows towards basketball more than soccer at this point.

I also think Israel is a dead end for him. He plays well, stays for 2 seasons, then what? Is there a rich market for a 26 year old striker with American and Israeli experience only? The player he would be replacing just moved to AEK Athens, at 29 which is a top Greek team, but that’s hardly a level that keeps you competitive in our striker depth charts. I do believe other clubs are or will come knocking, and I also think Minnesota is in a position to eventually pay him a DP salary that would match/best what Haifa could do. 
 

I think (hope) his end of year numbers at MNU will be in the same ballpark as Theo Bair’s last year, and those sent him to France. Think that lower end Ligue 1, Portugal, Netherlands all might be levels that would be a fit for where he’s at. 

[The Real Marc]

Fair enough. I think AEK Athens at 29 is a pretty good trajectory for Tani. He's not elite. I think Bair's transfer was a step too far though I do not blame him one bit for taking that opportunity, good for him.

Edited September 13 by The Real Marc

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

I mean, it's possible. But to me, Tani is hot and untested. M Haifa aren't a rinky dink outfit. He could wait for better, and may be he will, but that risks going cold and losing the profile. But of course, anything could happen.

This is why I kind of reluctantly hope he takes it. He has not scored for Canada and has just 1 goal for club since he made his international debut, so that risk you speak of is real in my view. For all we know though, he goes back to his club now and starts racking up the goals, maintaining his place as 3rd striker option for Canada, which in theory should keep that window opened, and keep interest hot. However, if he waits until the next transfer window, he is a little bit older, and perhaps a little bit less appealing.

Also on M Hafia not being a rinky dink outfit, I agree with you there, but as I mentioned they have no European competition to offer him this season. Domestic goals will look good, but the league strength is not impressive. Playing in Conference League is not the end all, be all, but for me as a fan I think it is the difference between me saying let us see how it goes to not wanting it to happen at all. The upside was already debatable, but without European ball it kind of tips the scales, for me at least. 

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

For big, I would just consider teams that are/could play in Europe. USG, yes, Grasshoppers not so much, but I doubt the salaries in Israel are higher than Switzerland- from what I understand, money in Israeli sports flows towards basketball more than soccer at this point.

I also think Israel is a dead end for him. He plays well, stays for 2 seasons, then what? Is there a rich market for a 26 year old striker with American and Israeli experience only? The player he would be replacing just moved to AEK Athens, at 29 which is a top Greek team, but that’s hardly a level that keeps you competitive in our striker depth charts. I do believe other clubs are or will come knocking, and I also think Minnesota is in a position to eventually pay him a DP salary that would match/best what Haifa could do. 
 

I think (hope) his end of year numbers at MNU will be in the same ballpark as Theo Bair’s last year, and those sent him to France. Think that lower end Ligue 1, Portugal, Netherlands all might be levels that would be a fit for where he’s at. 

Frantzdy Pierrot was also a goal scoring machine in Ligue 2, which Tani does not have on his resume. Nor does he have an elite goal scoring record internationally. Pierrot has scored like 22 goals in 31 games for Haiti. It is Haiti of course, but that is still a big deal when we are talking about clubs like AEK Athens, M. Hafia, etc.

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Fair enough. I think AEK Athens at 29 is a pretty good trajectory for Tani. He's not elite. I think Bair's transfer was a step too far though I do not blame him one bit for taking that opportunity, good for him.

For Tani, if he ends up at AEK Athens at some point, it’s a *massive* career W for him. From the CANMNT POV, we need to hope he does take a Bair-like leap (and that he + TB actually perform at that level), because that’s what would keep him in the mix. He is getting calls now because he came out of relative obscurity scoring a lot of goals off the jump, but 2-4 years from now, if he’s entering the back half of his 20s and doesn’t have an extra gear to hit, I think he’s out of our national team picture. 

 

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Frantzdy Pierrot was also a goal scoring machine in Ligue 2, which Tani does not have on his resume. Nor does he have an elite goal scoring record internationally. Pierrot has scored like 22 goals in 31 games for Haiti. It is Haiti of course, but that is still a big deal when we are talking about clubs like AEK Athens, M. Hafia, etc.

I’ll take fewer MLS goals over more Ligue 2 goals, but it’s also true that Pierrot is an absolute machine and has put up numbers everywhere he’s been. For Tani to get that next move, he has to probably get at or around 20Gs for Haifa over a season to get that interest.

Did see a Haifa fan call him “Tani Soprano” which transfer or not, I hope sticks. 

[The Real Marc]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

... but 2-4 years from now, if he’s entering the back half of his 20s and doesn’t have an extra gear to hit, I think he’s out of our national team picture. 

Oh I don't think we're that good yet! Playing at a top club in Greece he'll still be in the picture, but as a depth piece - which I think is his ceiling. But let's hope it's not!

[Ottawafan]

2 hours ago, nolando said:

He reminds me in a some ways of Tosaint Ricketts, and this move somehow as well.

Surely MLS overall has to be a better and more competitive league than Israel overall, no? 

Used to love watching Ricketts play.  Not from a he's going to help us somehow perspective but more from a what silly thing is he going to do now?

[narduch]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

I know we probably don’t want to talk about the elephant in the room re: playing in Israel, but to tie that very thing back to sporting- the ISL’s quality has steadily declined due to a drop in foreign talent over the last few years: https://www.ynetnews.com/culture/article/bj4ar1x00c

This is like when Richie Enin went to Russia a few years ago and we thought it would be this whole thing for us- player going to a top league like RSL is great! Until you realize that a lot of the foreign talent that made them a top 8-10 league in the world had left during the war. I think we’re going to see a decline in league quality over the next few seasons as players leave and do not get replaced, and the foreigners who choose to follow money over quality will increasingly move towards Saudi Arabia, UAE, or MLS. 

Sort of off topic, but Mexico's Cesar Montes just signed with a Russian club

[Obinna]

13 minutes ago, narduch said:

Sort of off topic, but Mexico's Cesar Montes just signed with a Russian club

Chaves is with Dynamo Moscow already, so maybe that will grow into a trend. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

To engage with this more seriously though, the translation makes it seem like a done deal? Though when I name search him up on Twitter, no other Israeli sources make mention of it, so assume this is similar to any of the Jonathan David rumours of this team or that team liking him.

 

Macabbi fans are all up in his IG comments though.

Careful you can't call the team Maccabi because half the sports clubs in Israel are called Maccabi!

Better to say Haifa since I think there's no other bigger club from there. 

It's probably the safest spot in the country but I suppose that depends on what Iran asks Hezbollah to test their missiles on. 

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

Oh I don't think we're that good yet! Playing at a top club in Greece he'll still be in the picture, but as a depth piece - which I think is his ceiling. But let's hope it's not!

If he’s one of the best strikers in Greece, AEK is playing European ball, etc., I agree- I guess that’s thinking 7 steps ahead, but I also feel like we after David and Larin, our depth is going to be young guys who have promise for the future. If he’s like 27 playing in Greece, I would think we’d be more inclined to bring in an ascendant Kwasi Poku, JRR, Bair, or even Jebbison or Lopez if they’re with us; we’ve already more or less phased out Ike Ugbo who is quietly putting together a respectable career in the championship, which I don’t think we would have if he was 22 or so. 
 

Lots of assumptions need to be made to figure out where he’ll end up and how he’ll compare to our other guys, but all this has me thinking- wouldn’t mind if he just went to Greece right now.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Lots of assumptions need to be made to figure out where he’ll end up and how he’ll compare to our other guys, but all this has me thinking- wouldn’t mind if he just went to Greece right now.

I think I would prefer that to him going to Israel, but does he go straight to a team like AEK Athens? He may need to go to a Panetolikos first before going to a PAOK, for instance. All theoretical convo of course, but would you prefer something like that over a move like M. Hafia, which at least club wise seems below the best in Greece, but above the rest of the league?

[InglewoodJack]

35 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think I would prefer that to him going to Israel, but does he go straight to a team like AEK Athens? He may need to go to a Panetolikos first before going to a PAOK, for instance. All theoretical convo of course, but would you prefer something like that over a move like M. Hafia, which at least club wise seems below the best in Greece, but above the rest of the league?

Well, he is legitimately one of the best strikers in MLS currently. I think his G/90 is second to only Messi? A good comp for me might be Adam Buksa who was sold to Lens at 26 after 1.5 strong seasons; Tani’s pacing not too far off from where Buksa was during his breakout season. Maybe it’s not France for Tani, but I think he does deserve a very good club if he can score at more or less 0.5 goals per game in his first season.

[Obinna]

31 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Well, he is legitimately one of the best strikers in MLS currently. I think his G/90 is second to only Messi? A good comp for me might be Adam Buksa who was sold to Lens at 26 after 1.5 strong seasons; Tani’s pacing not too far off from where Buksa was during his breakout season. Maybe it’s not France for Tani, but I think he does deserve a very good club if he can score at more or less 0.5 goals per game in his first season.

Nice example with Buksa.

Some observations and noticeable difference, though:

1. Buksa is a Polish international with a much better strike rate of 18 (7), compared to Tani's 8 (0) for Canada (FWIW)
2. Buksa failed at Lens, so maybe the step out of MLS was too high. 
3. Buksa being a European had European experience prior to MLS, so was more of a solid bet.

Even though he failed at Lens, he basically repeated his NER strike rate in Turkey, which is roughly an equivalent level. Now he's in Denmark and off to a great start of 3 goals in 4 games. 

I think if we project his stats into the future, Tani today is a good comparison to Buksa from a few years ago. Tani can probably end up with a similar strike rate to what Buksa had if he stays in MLS a few more season. Again though, he's a late bloomer and North American, which may work against him in terms of moving to Europe, not to mention the cultural adjustment of playing in Europe. For those reasons, Tani may want to take a lesser move and build himself up. Maybe something like M. Hafia, but not M. Hafia if you know what I mean. Mid table Belgium perhaps?

Edited September 13 by Obinna

[Lansdude]

Surely he can hold out for another club in Switzerland or Denmark or something. Canada players are on the radar everywhere now. I guess that might be the European door cracking open but the league must be kinda balls. Just guessing. And I guess if that's the team holding the sack with the dollar sign on it that's what you do. 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Lansdude said:

Surely he can hold out for another club in Switzerland or Denmark or something. Canada players are on the radar everywhere now. I guess that might be the European door cracking open but the league must be kinda balls. Just guessing. And I guess if that's the team holding the sack with the dollar sign on it that's what you do. 

Again, I don't want to get into the geopolitical stuff, which should make one want to avoid playing in Israel all things being equal, but if he wants to play in Europe AND wants a sack with the dollar sign, Turkey would be much better. Plenty of solid teams outside the traditional to 3, and who knows maybe a Besiktas takes a punt on him. 

[GasPed]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Maccabi Haifa is one of the stronger teams in Israel. 

They're playing European competitions "abroad", mostly in Hungary but other Eastern European sites. Obviously it can't be the most comfortable place to be right now. Still, it's a good league to jump off from, though usually it'd mean going to Greece or Switzerland, Austria. Rare that you'd transfer better.

It's rare that you could transfer from Israel to one of the Big 5 leagues, but not completely unheard of (e.g. Daniel Peretz signed to Bayern last year from Maccabi Tel Aviv).

[Unnamed Trialist]

27 minutes ago, GasPed said:

It's rare that you could transfer from Israel to one of the Big 5 leagues, but not completely unheard of (e.g. Daniel Peretz signed to Bayern last year from Maccabi Tel Aviv).

Going through a few Israelis in La Liga over the years, these four from Maccabi Haifa:

-Shon Weissman at Granada, who was also with Valladolid, transferred from Wolfsberger, Kennedy's club in Austria. He came through the M Haifa system. That seems a reasonable path. He's really a 2nd division level striker.

-Dudu Aouate, the keeper, was also a Maccabi Haifa player and transferred directly to Racing Santander almost 2 decades ago, who were then in top flight. Was at Depor I think when De Guzman was there; then did a long stint to finish his career in Mallorca. Quality player. His move to Spain came after M Haifa beat Manchester United in a Champions match.

-Chaim Revivo, one of the greatest modern Israelis, creative striker, went directly from Haifa to Celta Vigo in 1996. Had a nice Spain career.

-Benayoun, better than Revivo, was another Maccabi Haifa player, transferred to Racing Santander in top flight in 2002, went on to play for the Hammers, Liverpool, Chelsea.

I think it's a good set of precedents, direct from Haifa to a Liga team. I am actually surprised by this as I did not think Maccabi Haifa was producing this level, as they are not the historically strongest Israeli team.

Edited September 13 by Unnamed Trialist

[Acid-Tone]

7 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

What's not to like?

 

7 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

Aside from the "do you want to live there ... right now?"

 

I respect that people have differing opinions, and I'm obviously not in Tani's shoes, so I won't judge him negatively if he does decide to go, however, if I were in his shoes..... I don't think I could do it.

There's just so much death/pain/anger in that region right now that I can't imagine choosing to add that into my life. 

A football game is 90 minutes long, but there's still another 10 000 or so every week you gotta get through.