TFC - 2022 Season Thread

[gwsmith63]

4 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

That is only from the usual Toronto nonsense of people arriving late, leaving early (for each half) etc. As others who were there have already said, It was clearly (to those of us in thee stadium) sold out.

Ok, we’ll go with that then.  👍
 

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Lol.

Pretty obvious you don't frequent the CPL sub forum.

I have checked it out.  If some of those CPL markets of over a million people would be able to draw one fifth of what TFC have been averaging this year,  it would be gold for soccer in Canada.  Consider how lousy this club has been this year,  21K, 24K, 24K, 25K, 27K, 29K ...etc is pretty darn good.   And those numbers pretty much pass the eye test IMHO.    Yet, we often see posts from people who aren't there in person suggesting that this company would doctor the numbers.  Well, if that's true then would it be TFC only that doctors the numbers?   In truth,  I believe that they have no incentive to doctor the numbers and they are not doctored or fudged.   

As has been the case for all the year you might might want to check the attendance numbers of the other two MLS clubs in Canada,  who actually have good teams and dont have to contend with competition from Major league baseball in their markets.    Montreal is roughly the size of Seattle and Vancouver is roughly the size of Cincinnati, shall we do a comparison?   No we better not,  becasue it could be painfull.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Free kick

[narduch]

27 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I have checked it out.  If some of those CPL markets of over a million people would be able to draw one fifth of what TFC have been averaging this year,  it would be gold for soccer in Canada.  Consider how lousy this club has been this year,  21K, 24K, 24K, 25K, 27K, 29K ...etc is pretty darn good.   And those numbers pretty much pass the eye test IMHO.    Yet, we often see posts from people who aren't there in person suggesting that this company would doctor the numbers.  Well, if that's true then would it be TFC only that doctors the numbers?   In truth,  I believe that they have no incentive to doctor the numbers and they are not doctored or fudged.   

As has been the case for all the year you might might want to check the attendance numbers of the other two MLS clubs in Canada,  who actually have good teams and dont have to contend with competition from Major league baseball in their markets.    Montreal is roughly the size of Seattle and Vancouver is roughly the size of Cincinnati, shall we do a comparison?   No we better not,  becasue it could be painfull.

Really I barely see any attendance talk in the MLS sub forum. 

MLS as a league overall does seem to doctor the numbers in certain markets. 

Personally I think TFC inflates their numbers slightly in order to paint a rosier picture. Even tonight they announced a 'sell out' despite being almost 1,000 under capacity 

Edited July 24, 2022 by narduch

[Free kick]

50 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

That is only from the usual Toronto nonsense of people arriving late, leaving early (for each half) etc. As others who were there have already said, It was clearly (to those of us in thee stadium) sold out.

yes,  and there are people who have this obsession with going to the concessions during play.   Ok occasionally so do I  .   

But there is another angle to this, and I mentioned this in the past.  There is something unique and about the clientele that have bought season seats in in the lower section of the of the east stands;  the stands that cameras point to and are seen by the TV viewers the most.   I have have observed that that group is that is susceptible most to what your talking about. Seems like there are lots of families there with young kids.   .     

[Free kick]

4 minutes ago, narduch said:

 

Personally I think TFC inflates their numbers slightly in order to paint a rosier picture. 

Then why would TFC do that and not anybody else?    there are MLS and CPL clubs in other Canadian towns and cities.  Do you have the same scepticism towards the numbers that they report?

Edited July 24, 2022 by Free kick

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Then why would TFC do that and not anybody else?    there are clubs MLS and CPL in other Canadian towns and cities.  Do you have the same scepticism towards the numbers that they report?

Yes I am highly skeptical.

Somebody posted on this site an FOI request that showed the Whitecaps inflate their numbers. They were able to get this info because BC Place is run by the province 

Sorry I can't remember what thread.

[Bison44]

You see what everyone else has to put up with in the CPL attendance thread??  You are lucky Ozzie isnt giving you a speech about what % of those tickets were give aways and promotions and was it announced attendance or tickets sold and the maps of ticketmaster blue dots and photos of the crowd before the anthems ad nauseum.   

[Free kick]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

Yes I am highly skeptical.

Somebody posted on this site an FOI request that showed the Whitecaps inflate their numbers. They were able to get this info because BC Place is run by the province 

Sorry I can't remember what thread.

Ok, so if others inflate their numbers as well,  as you said,  Then the the attendance at BMO must be pretty darn good in comparisons. 

Then if they inflate their numbers,  then they must be inflating the Argos numbers as well.   Ouch!  

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Free kick

[narduch]

Just now, Free kick said:

 

 Then if they inflate their numbers,  then they must be inflating the Argos numbers as we 

No argument from me there

[Free kick]

the point i am trying to make is: When it comes to attendance for games in Canada,  TFC's  is the the least of the worries.  By far.  So I still dont know why it even comes up.   

 

PS.:  Unless concretely proven to the contrary,  I am going to go with what is reported in links like the one below.   Sure we dont know how they count and it could be estimates, but as i said,  to me it passes the eye test.  I really dont see the incentive in lying (or painting a rosier picture) or inflating numbers because credibility is also important to any big public company.   And its big public companies that own this entity and they have bigger issues as far credibility to worry about than what they report as attendance at a TFC game.  So there is no reason to be more skeptical about what they report than there is for what other clubs and teams report irrespective of the team or league (MLS or CPL etc).   And you can go further than than that,  there is no reason to be more skeptical of what MLS reports than what MLB reports, or the NHL or NBA.

 

2022 MLS Attendance - Soccer Stadium Digest

Edited July 24, 2022 by Free kick

[RS]

There aren’t 30,000 seats at BMO Field. Actual seating capacity around 28,000-29,000, with the rest being made up in standing room tickets.

For some reason TFC has elected to not install the north end bleachers that sit directly under the scoreboard this year, even though demand is there for it. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[narduch]

8 minutes ago, Free kick said:

the point i am trying to make is: When it comes to attendance for games in Canada,  TFC's  is the the least of the worries.  By far.  So I still dont know why it even comes up.   

 

PS.:  Unless concretely proven to the contrary,  I am going to go with what is reported in links like the one below.   Sure we dont know how they count and it could be estimates, but as i said,  to me it passes the eye test.  I really done see the indentive in lying or inflateing numbers becasue credibility is also to any compnay.  

 

2022 MLS Attendance - Soccer Stadium Digest

You are being a bit naive here.

It's well documented that MLS teams do indeed inflate attendance. 

I'm just too lazy to Google News articles for you.

[Gian-Luca]

Just want to point out that before Kaye got hurt to bring TFC down to 10 men after they used all their subs, it was Bradley, Bono & 9 Canadians on the field for TFC.

On a separate note, Christian Fuchs proved tonight that you can be very experienced and still be an idiot on the field. Why he decided to make an obvious red-card challenge in a game where his team is behind 4-0 with little over 20 minutes is beyond me. I could see him fouling Nelson there when its 1-0, or 1-1 or even if his team has the lead. But 4-0 which about 25 minutes left? You have to be fuched in the head to make that kind of play.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Looks like Belotti is being actively shopped around alsoran English Premiership clubs:

 

so we are probably not going to see what a 4-3-3 with Insigne-Belotti-Bernardeschi up front and Kaye-Bradley-Osorio in midfield would do to MLS defences.

[jordan]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Looks like Belotti is being actively shopped around alsoran English Premiership clubs:

 

so we are probably not going to see what a 4-3-3 with Insigne-Belotti-Bernardeschi up front and Kaye-Bradley-Osorio in midfield would do to MLS defences.

Never were

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The Italian media have been saying something different. Why am I supposed to believe you rather than them?

Edited July 24, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[TOcanadafan]

11 hours ago, rkomar said:

I missed the first half, so I was surprised to see that it was 4-0 for TFC at the start of the second half.  My surprise just got deeper through the rest of the game because the team was playing exactly like they did before this game, i.e. they couldn't hold on to the ball when going on the attack and spent most of their time in their own half of the field making weak clearances.  I really need to catch the first half next game and see what I was missing.

I think there was a huge difference in effort level in both halves, most notably from the midfield… everyone wanted to impress the new Italians in the first half and then were content in the 2nd half just to play out the game.  

[Gian-Luca]

Have to admit as someone who has been a lifelong Canada & Azzurri fan, it is somewhat surreal to see regular members of both teams celebrating on the field as teammates for your hometown club. I know this happened to an extent with Giovinco, but he was more of a fringe National team player in comparison to Insigne (even if the latter never is called again in Italy's rebuilding phase):

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Putting three Azzurri level talents around Michael Bradley showed in this game how he was able to impress with Chievo and AS Roma earlier in his career. He doesn't have the talent and pace to carry a team from central midfield at this point in his career but he's probably better able to do what Insigne and Bernardeschi have in mind than most of his teammates in a Victor Vazquez with Sebastian Giovinco sort of way. Hope that keeps happening for the rest of this season even if he isn't going to be the answer for that role through to 2026.

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Have to admit as someone who has been a lifelong Canada & Azzurri fan, it is somewhat surreal to see regular members of both teams celebrating on the field as teammates for your hometown club. I know this happened to an extent with Giovinco, but he was more of a fringe National team player in comparison to Insigne (even if the latter never is called again in Italy's rebuilding phase):

 

The dilemna here is:  if Italy had qualified for the WC, would these guys be playing here?  I am guessing, No.  Except for maybe Criscito. I think that they are aware of the fact that if you play in MLS,  they wont get called up because the perception (rightly or wrongly) that MLS is not at the level they want for their NT players.  I doubt that they would have wanted to miss out on the WC.    I think that had the same Giovinco, that played for TFC, played elsewhere in Europe, he would have been called up much more often. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Free kick

[Club Linesman]

What a first half performance.  Unfortunately there may not be enough time to recover from the expected poor start, but realistically TFC is as talented as any team in the league now.  

We went from playing young Canadians en masse to fielding a team with 2 Italian NT, a former Italian NT, a former USNT captain (who did look rejuvenated last night), and 3 important CMNT players. That is quite the pedigree for MLS.  While happy that the kids were playing, team needs to be competitive in this market to be appreciated.  And in the long run training with world class players should help our youngsters develop.

Gonna be an exciting finish to the year and TFC with another signing or 2 will no doubt compete for the title starting again next year and assuming their position as one of the top clubs in MLS.

[Gian-Luca]

5 hours ago, Free kick said:

The dilemna here is:  if Italy had qualified for the WC, would these guys be playing here?  I am guessing, No.  Except for maybe Criscito. I think that they are aware of the fact that if you play in MLS,  they wont get called up because the perception (rightly or wrongly) that MLS is not at the level they want for their NT players.  I doubt that they would have wanted to miss out on the WC.    I think that had the same Giovinco, that played for TFC, played elsewhere in Europe, he would have been called up much more often. 

Insigne agreed to sign for TFC before eliminated were shock-eliminated from qualifying and I suspect he would not have been dropped suddenly from the Italian National team just prior to the World Cup given that he was a starter. That said, I don't think he would still be getting called up next season for a variety of reasons. As for Bernadeschi, we'll never really know - Mancini went with all kids for their nations league games after the horrid match against Argentina in the last window (which was the only game he started), so he may not have any more use for him anyway. On the other hand, at 28 he would still be around for the next Euros if not the next WC - not sure if Inisgne would still get called at 33 for Euro 2024. If Mancini looked at the highlights of the match last night he wouldn't necessarily be impressed with Bernadeschi's goal because he normally wouldn't have that amount of time to shoot playing in Serie A.

[Gian-Luca]

This camera angle for the first Bradley goal especially (once more people got to their seats) gives an idea of how full the stadium was on the side of the field that doesn't get picked up by the television cameras.

 

[Goal_Kick]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

This camera angle for the first Bradley goal especially (once more people got to their seats) gives an idea of how full the stadium was on the side of the field that doesn't get picked up by the television cameras.

 

Ummm.....hi, folks.   Vancouver Whitecaps fan here.

Your team just unveiled two new stars and you pumped four goals into your opponent's net before half-time in your last game.

Why are you so concerned with how many fans were there?