Luca Koleosho

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

He played 9 minutes of Eredivisie. 10 in Liga Nos, 198 in Jupiler Pro League. Banged 10 goals and 2 assists in 19 games in France D4 back in 18/19. Has 7 caps and 1 goal for Canada. 
 

I wanted to see Koleosho more than Brym, that’s for sure. But he he played 23 minutes in La Liga this season. Brym is an Holland D2 player on loan, but Koleosho is also a reserve player. I’m pretty sure we will see him against Uruguay.
 

Cavallini must be mad.

I think anyone playing at a certain level might feel they deserve minutes. 

I was a bit surprised Kennedy and Cornelius did not figure against Qatar, because I am not sure, fighting for a result late, if it is going to be that easy to sub them in and alter the way our defence looks. Unless of course we have a few guys like Vitoria or Miller with cards, quite possible too, so the decision would be easier to make.

The question for the subs is that I think Larin is really missing game fitness. I felt it a bit, he even looked a bit heavy to me. So that sub is easier. David not as much. But who? Cavallini has not been playing well enough to deserve a start vs. Uruguay, imo, but for sure for him to play 30 min could be really interesting. And if we are close to a result 2nd half he's a good guy to have on, he'd play with high intensity and he has a hold up game too. 

Theo--well he should have been on instead of Brym which is Herdman wasting valuable time on a player that is the only one in the group who proves every time out he is not at our standard. He did basically the same as Woobens Pacius or Terran Campbell would have done, since if you are basically fit and are surrounded by talent it's hard to look terrible. 

Theo--he could and even should get a start, the only reason he may not is because he dicked around last January and basically refused a call-up. With no good reason, either. He did a no-no, then was ignored. IMO he erred and maybe he'll have to do more to earn his way back in.

If Koleosho gets on for 10 minutes he'll have to be happy.

 

[solsous]

24 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Another word just as important: youth.

They are by far the youngest team at the WC, and you can't expect them to play with experience, know how to interpret a system, cover for each other with skill, take on full responsibility (which they don't have often with their clubs). 

But sure, if you want to argue it is also Berhalter's fault that the team is lacking balance and missing experience, I'd agree. 

While I agree with you in general, good to great national squads need midfield generals.  Currently, the USMNT sorely lacks that.  On the other hand, while he is not necessarily a pure midfielder, Davies is the closest thing to unlocking opponents defenses.

[Addona]

4 hours ago, Ally McCoist said:

One word: Berhalter.

I mean, I know the "Berhalter is trash" narrative, and I'm not saying he's an incredible coach, but I find it hard to believe that with the level of talent they have, they can look that bad.

Having said that, I still think they are well-positioned for the WC since they got such a favorable draw ... even England looks like absolute garbage at the moment (speaking of being worse than the sum of their parts!), and I wouldn't be surprised to see the U.S. top the group, and England crash out.

[canuckgbp]

https://www.mountainviewtoday.ca/national-sports/teenager-luca-koleosho-has-international-options-but-enjoys-time-in-canadas-camp-5868539
 

 

[P-O]

Give him a taste of Internation football tuesday.

No matter what's the score, play him RWB and see what he can do. He'll be tested, he might look out of place, but isn't why we have this camp in the first place? 

 

We know 10 of our starting 11.

Buchanan is injured and the only spot left is between Hutch, Kone, Piette & Osorio

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

43 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

https://www.mountainviewtoday.ca/national-sports/teenager-luca-koleosho-has-international-options-but-enjoys-time-in-canadas-camp-5868539
 

 

"But I'm enjoying it here. So we'll just see how things play out."

Very positive but yet to commit.

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, P-O said:

Give him a taste of Internation football tuesday.

No matter what's the score, play him RWB and see what he can do. He'll be tested, he might look out of place, but isn't why we have this camp in the first place? 

 

We know 10 of our starting 11.

Buchanan is injured and the only spot left is between Hutch, Kone, Piette & Osorio

Oh man, this trope never dies it seems....

[JAVIERF]

Liam Millar is someone hard to defend for the Uruguayans.  The teenager must play,  after 70 minutes

[SoCalTransport]

8 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

"But I'm enjoying it here. So we'll just see how things play out."

Very positive but yet to commit.

I believe  if he’s not ready to commit, why is he even called.

This camp is about preparing for the World Cup, Herdman’s choices have been questionable, he’s lucky it didn’t burn him during WC qualifying.

Edited September 26, 2022 by SoCalTransport

[Unnamed Trialist]

59 minutes ago, SoCalTransport said:

I believe  if he’s not ready to commit, why is he even called.

This camp is about preparing for the World Cup, Herdman’s choices have been questionable, he’s lucky it didn’t burn him during WC qualifying.

I sort of agree.

I like what Eustaquio said, if you go you have to be ready to commit. None of this, to use the appropriate phrase we use here in Spanish, none of this "puta y la Ramona" business.

[The Real Marc]

I have no problem with Koleosho testing the waters. But at our pre-WC camp? We don't have games and training to burn. That call-up should be for someone else who we know will play for us.

Edited September 26, 2022 by The Real Marc

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

I have no problem with Koleosho testing the waters. But at our pre-WC camp? We don't have games and training to burn. That call-up should be for someone else who we know will play for us.

If it leads him to the World Cup with minimal garbage minutes in one of the 24-26 slots and a permanent cap-tie?

Not sure I have decided myself. If he was smart he would probably refuse, not a great look for us, to be fair. If we care.

I agree we do need look at players, in central midfield especially.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'd like him to be verbally positive, but I guess he's being told to hedge his bets.

Or, from seeing how he was in that interview with Tactical Manager, he's just a bit guileless and was just speaking like the kid he is. 

I'm not sure. I accept it's a reciprocal relationship, he knows he can't expect big minutes from us with the wingers he has around him. We know he can't promise us anything either. 

Thing is: if we miss him he may end up playing for the US next summer against us, and that would hurt.

[InglewoodJack]

16 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

I have no problem with Koleosho testing the waters. But at our pre-WC camp? We don't have games and training to burn. That call-up should be for someone else who we know will play for us.

I think we have to accept this as a reality of the type of country we are- most of our talented players will share citizenship with another soccer country, and we're going to have to invest in making them choose us.

I also think the fact that he's an American kid who grew up in the states, lives there in the off season, and is only eligible for Canada on a technicality is understated. He's also in the perfect developmental pipeline to eventually make the US team, so to get a player like him to play for us, Canada has to pull off a heist, and that's precisely what we're trying to do.

For this reason, I'd be more fine going the extra mile to accommodate Koleosho while he publicly says his options are open vs. if we were in a similar situation where you had canadian born & raised Stefan Mitrovic publicly saying his heart is with serbia, etc., but he'll come to our camp to see what's up.

[The Real Marc]

10 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think we have to accept this as a reality of the type of country we are- most of our talented players will share citizenship with another soccer country, and we're going to have to invest in making them choose us.

Absoultely. We need to baby the dual nationals. The hardball approach sounds good on messageboards and soothes the emotions but alienates the kids.

The thing is, inviting him to this camp and letting him train alongside the boys isn't investing in him.

If we're serious, sit him down, tell him where he fits, how much he'll play, and how we intend to put him out there into the games.

If we're not, sure then invite him to a no-commitment camp - just not at the only camp we have before the first World Cup in 30 years.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by The Real Marc

[Mitchryan11]

well when you could of potentially locked up a midfielder that would of played with us instead of giving a position up to someone who is on the fence, john herdman dropped the ball

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

Or, from seeing how he was in that interview with Tactical Manager, he's just a bit guileless and was just speaking like the kid he is. 

I'm not sure. I accept it's a reciprocal relationship, he knows he can't expect big minutes from us with the wingers he has around him. We know he can't promise us anything either. 

 

I think we forget 2 things with athletes especially when they're so young:

1) They're effectively children who have one shot at getting their careers right. The sky is the limit for a 17 year old playing in la liga, but he has to make the right decisions for himself. Just the marketing opportunities from being the next big thing in American soccer

2) Just because they're children doesn't mean they're stupid- they understand that in sports it's always going to be athlete vs. organization, whether it's club or country.

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'd like him to be verbally positive, but I guess he's being told to hedge his bets.

Or, from seeing how he was in that interview with Tactical Manager, he's just a bit guileless and was just speaking like the kid he is. 

I'm not sure. I accept it's a reciprocal relationship, he knows he can't expect big minutes from us with the wingers he has around him. We know he can't promise us anything either. 

Thing is: if we miss him he may end up playing for the US next summer against us, and that would hurt.

At the end of the day, Koleosho (and all of the other similar players we discuss) are children who are presented with tremendous opportunity that they may not even fully comprehend, and they must make a series of decisions that impacts the rest of their lives, and they have no take backs. Just the marketing opportunities for Koleosho if he becomes the next big thing in American soccer should give him pause from committing to Canada. But the chance to be a contributor for arguably soccer's best underdog story of this generation- Canada- should give him pause from committing to the US, because we can offer him quite a bit too. It's the decision between going to work for Google or going to work for a start up that could become a billion dollar company with you as its 10th employee, or could go belly up next year.

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, this kid seems like the kind of guy that deserves a bit of courting.  He literally just turned 18th and has played in La Liga.  I don’t care if they were sub minutes for a depleted team - that is still an exceptionally high level for a guy who was 17 at the time.  We were (rightly)excited to see if Smith ever debuted for Nice and here is a younger guy playing at a higher level.  I have no problem with the idea of a bit of wooing.  

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Absoultely. We need to baby the dual nationals. The hardball approach sounds good on messageboards and soothes the emotions but alienates the kids.

The thing is, inviting him to this camp and letting him train alongside the boys isn't investing in him.

If we're serious, sit him down, tell him where he fits, how much he'll play, and how we intend to put him out there into the games.

If we're not, sure then invite him to a no-commitment camp - just not at the only camp we have before the first World Cup in 30 years.

 

I do wonder whether the interpersonal effects of attending a camp really have an impact. Say a 17 year old kid goes to a camp with a bunch of guys that like each other, including apparently his favourite player, he has a lot of fun, it's good vibes, etc., does that bring a player significantly closer to a national team, despite the tangible opportunities presented by joining another team? I would consider bringing him into a camp just to hang out an investment, but it's only a good investment if he actually plays. I'm fine with bringing him into last camp just to vibe, but I would want that to translate into him playing against Qatar or Uruguay.

 

I do think that featuring him in an actual friendly might go a long way with Koleosho. He's only 18 and knows the drill with playing time, but from his perspective, but in the last year, he's featured 3 times for Espanyol B, 3 times for Espanyol, his home country has let him get courted by Canada... I mean, at some point the kid might just want to actually play competitive soccer at the senior level, something he hasn't really been able to do yet. Give him some time to run around out there and do cardio against Uruguay- we'd be the first organization to give hum such an opportunity since he turned pro.

[Unnamed Trialist]

44 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I do wonder whether the interpersonal effects of attending a camp really have an impact. Say a 17 year old kid goes to a camp with a bunch of guys that like each other, including apparently his favourite player, he has a lot of fun, it's good vibes, etc., does that bring a player significantly closer to a national team, despite the tangible opportunities presented by joining another team? I would consider bringing him into a camp just to hang out an investment, but it's only a good investment if he actually plays. I'm fine with bringing him into last camp just to vibe, but I would want that to translate into him playing against Qatar or Uruguay.

 

I do think that featuring him in an actual friendly might go a long way with Koleosho. He's only 18 and knows the drill with playing time, but from his perspective, but in the last year, he's featured 3 times for Espanyol B, 3 times for Espanyol, his home country has let him get courted by Canada... I mean, at some point the kid might just want to actually play competitive soccer at the senior level, something he hasn't really been able to do yet. Give him some time to run around out there and do cardio against Uruguay- we'd be the first organization to give hum such an opportunity since he turned pro.

I imagine he has a clause in his contract where if he is called or plays for a NT he gets a bonus. It is not uncommon here.

I keep coming back to little details.

He went to a US camp in April-May and it did not seem to convince him, I think it was because it was a u-20 B camp and they clearly had him in the second tier even for the age group. Then they did low-level friendlies. 

His father is American but Nigerian born--I am pretty sure, if I am wrong I'm happy to be corrected-- and he may not have anyone patriotically pushing him towards the US in the way other kids might get. 

He is not just eligible for Canada by distant relatives or a freak passport. But mom is Canadian, worked in the Impact organisation, is a PhD physiotherapist, so a part of his sports identity goes that way.

He left very early, age 11, for Spain, so he's been on his own a long time. He did not grow up fully in the US, he's done high school here (and that means, believe it or not, in Catalan and Spanish). So he may not have as powerful a bond to the US as we might imagine. That also may mean he's eligible for Spain, or could be after age 18, and that is something to be watchful of.

Then, finally: Eric Tenllado came out of the Espanyol system and that I am sure has been a factor, I am convinced he's had that dialogue with Eric and that has been a boon for us.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[InglewoodJack]

36 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I imagine he has a clause in his contract where if he is called or plays for a NT he gets a bonus. It is not uncommon here.

I keep coming back to little details.

He went to a US camp in April-May and it did not seem to convince him, I think it was because it was a u-20 B camp and they clearly had him in the second tier even for the age group. Then they did low-level friendlies. 

His father is American but Nigerian born--I am pretty sure, if I am wrong I'm happy to be corrected-- and he may not have anyone patriotically pushing him towards the US in the way other kids might get. 

He is not just eligible for Canada by distant relatives or a freak passport. But mom is Canadian, worked in the Impact organisation, is a PhD physiotherapist, so a part of his sports identity goes that way.

He left very early, age 11, for Spain, so he's been on his own a long time. He did not grow up fully in the US, he's done high school here (and that means, believe it or not, in Catalan and Spanish). So he may not have as powerful a bond to the US as we might imagine. That also may mean he's eligible for Spain, or could be after age 18, and that is something to be watchful of.

Then, finally: Eric Tenllado came out of the Espanyol system and that I am sure has been a factor, I am convinced he's had that dialogue with Eric and that has been a boon for us.

Agreed on all of this, and these are all reasons that Canada isn't out of the running yet. I just think we ought to be understanding that his decision will take time because he has very legitimate ties to the US, where he was born and first picked up a soccer ball. I'm more willing to be patient with him than someone born here who is using Canada as a bargaining chip to get in with another nation.

I do wonder what the behind the scenes conversations between Herdman & Berhalter about this are like. The US seem not to rate him very highly- a U20 B camp earlier this year, and I don't think there was a push to get him into their camp this year- they don't think he's ready for the senior team, that much is clear, but the US are still not deep enough to truly turn their back on an 18 year old La Liga player unless they had explicit reason to do so, so I'm wondering if they see Koleosho the same way Canada saw Mitrovic circa ~2020.

[SoCalTransport]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

canadian born & raised Stefan Mitrovic publicly saying his heart is with serbia

You mean Ivan’s heart 

[Sal333]

30 minutes ago, SoCalTransport said:

You mean Ivan’s heart 

To quote Tom Reagan (Gabriel Byrne) in Miller's Crossing, "What heart?"

[Ottawafan]

We don't know where he will be professionally speaking in a year, two or 5 years from now.  But if he gets to a certain level, Canada will have needed to build a relationship over that time.  We aren't a country that a dual with multiple options can be swayed at the last minute by swooping in and saying ok we will take you.  Need to put in the time. 

[Obinna]

On 9/24/2022 at 3:09 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Another word just as important: youth.

They are by far the youngest team at the WC, and you can't expect them to play with experience, know how to interpret a system, cover for each other with skill, take on full responsibility (which they don't have often with their clubs). 

But sure, if you want to argue it is also Berhalter's fault that the team is lacking balance and missing experience, I'd agree. 

Ecuador are technically younger, I believe. I think they are expected to be a close second for youngest team in Qatar.

Also, the USA are not forced to play young players, they choose to. Yes, of course it is normal to pick the best players regardless of age, then try your best to coach them up, but the option to pick older players exists, so it's not an excuse (which you acknowledge at the end of your post). 

Ironically, Berhalter picked many older players earlier in the cycle and got raked over the coals for it.