Luca Koleosho

[Obinna]

The first thing I thought of when Italian soccer purity came up was the English and my second thought was Tomori, who is a mainstay for AC Milan yet only has 5 English caps. AGR recently said the man should have 30 English caps if he wasn't being overlooked just for playing in Italy. I don't know about 30 caps, but he should have a hell of a lot more than 5. 

Anyway, English are probably the worst "offenders" of this, if you even want to characterize it as an offense. Rare to see players in their national team outside of the Premier League. Is there even a more homogeneous NT than England within the FIFA top 50?

[Unnamed Trialist]

18 hours ago, Obinna said:

The first thing I thought of when Italian soccer purity came up was the English and my second thought was Tomori, who is a mainstay for AC Milan yet only has 5 English caps. AGR recently said the man should have 30 English caps if he wasn't being overlooked just for playing in Italy. I don't know about 30 caps, but he should have a hell of a lot more than 5. 

Anyway, English are probably the worst "offenders" of this, if you even want to characterize it as an offense. Rare to see players in their national team outside of the Premier League. Is there even a more homogeneous NT than England within the FIFA top 50?

That's because Premiership overpays more recently, not because there's any historical bias. All the great English players who had important stints abroad were part of the national team, going back to Kevin Keegan, then Lineker, up to Owen, McManaman, Beckham, more recently Trippier, Bellingham (these last six I saw in Spain), now Gallagher is at Atlético. I don't think it is a real bias, though Southgate blackballing Tomori is an odd case; I think the fact that the NT has been highly competitive for the last 4 years is a key factor, if they'd been looking around more desperately for solutions he likely would have been tried. Just that now EPL overpays, you can be journeyman scrub and make a great salary, and English players don't go abroad because of it. Quite rightly. 

I personally think the bias of not paying attention to a player because he's gone abroad is really not a thing, it is hard to find any national team discriminating a player for being abroad in a league as good or better.

Edited August 26 by Unnamed Trialist

[Shway]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:33 AM, Obinna said:

Anyway, English are probably the worst "offenders" of this, if you even want to characterize it as an offense. Rare to see players in their national team outside of the Premier League. Is there even a more homogeneous NT than England within the FIFA top 50?

I think this isn't true....at all.

You would agree that the PL has been the best league for quite awhile now.
With that, it would make sense that they would pick their "best players" from the best league.

Also, to further challenge your point. Jadon Sancho and Jude were in the squad playing at Dortmund. Trippier was in the squad at Atletico. Tomori got called up when Milan won the league (you gotta earn it, playing abroad in inferior leagues).

I think it's just rare that English players play abroad if it's not for a European juggernaut (Real Madrid, Bayern Munich). 

[narduch]

Wasn't Sancho getting snubbed too until he moved to EPL?

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

Wasn't Sancho getting snubbed too until he moved to EPL?

Do you think it was a bias? Or because he was young?

[Shway]

19 minutes ago, narduch said:

Wasn't Sancho getting snubbed too until he moved to EPL?

No he wasn't, he was in the Euro 2020 squad as a 20yo. Him and Jude were the youngest in the squad  both coming from Dortmund.

He didn't play because of guys like Raheem, Grealish, Saka, Rashford.

 

[narduch]

9 minutes ago, Shway said:

No he wasn't, he was in the Euro 2020 squad as a 20yo. Him and Jude were the youngest in the squad  both coming from Dortmund.

He didn't play because of guys like Raheem, Grealish, Saka, Rashford.

 

That's right.

But I remember their being controversy over him not starting.

[InglewoodJack]

I wonder what “upping our interest” in Koleosho means. Would assume the convo is “hey wanna play for Canada?” “No sorry, we’re gonna try and make Italy work, will let you know if that changes”

What’s the upping the interest look like?

 

”hey, hope all is well! Circling back on my previous email. Keep us posted!

best, 

jesse”

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

I think this isn't true....at all.

You would agree that the PL has been the best league for quite awhile now.
With that, it would make sense that they would pick their "best players" from the best league.

Also, to further challenge your point. Jadon Sancho and Jude were in the squad playing at Dortmund. Trippier was in the squad at Atletico. Tomori got called up when Milan won the league (you gotta earn it, playing abroad in inferior leagues).

I think it's just rare that English players play abroad if it's not for a European juggernaut (Real Madrid, Bayern Munich). 

I mean, the bolded points are true and I am not going to dispute those facts, but it's also a fact (I think) that England always have the most domestic players, always. Take any snapshot in time and chances are England are the most "pure", if you want to put it that way, even more so than Italy. Good reasons for it, you can argue....

But I think you can also argue they sometimes prefer players in England when it may not be in their best interest to do so, Tomori being the example I used. I am sure similar examples exist for other nations, even Italy, but I think maybe with England it sticks out like a sore thumb. At least it does for me. Maybe others too, I don't know...

 

[blueseeka]

Looks like the end is upon us

Edited August 27 by blueseeka

[Atlantic]

Oh well, my belief he would ever choose us was extremely low. At least he won’t choose the USA either 

[Mattd97]

while hes in Italy he should stop by Tomori's house and ask how that early cap tie went

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

21 hours ago, Obinna said:

I mean, the bolded points are true and I am not going to dispute those facts, but it's also a fact (I think) that England always have the most domestic players, always. Take any snapshot in time and chances are England are the most "pure", if you want to put it that way, even more so than Italy. Good reasons for it, you can argue....

But I think you can also argue they sometimes prefer players in England when it may not be in their best interest to do so, Tomori being the example I used. I am sure similar examples exist for other nations, even Italy, but I think maybe with England it sticks out like a sore thumb. At least it does for me. Maybe others too, I don't know...

Unfortunately, @Shway 's initial point included a 2 point definition of "pure" but to me, at least, the club nationality part of it is interesting and relevant. 

Did a quick count at the big 2 tournaments in the last 10 years, so it starts with 2014 World Cup and ending with this summer's  Euro.

So players playing outside their national league system in what I think we can agree have included the top 4 leagues over that time.  (Hope it formats okay)

Germany    7    9    8    8    6    6
Italy            3    5    na   4   na   3
Spain          9    9    6   13    8    7
England      1    0    0    3     1      2

 

So clearly Germany and Spain are one tier, Italy below and England somewhat below that. The numbers would back up your (and my) impression that England is the most "pure" in this sense.  

I have complained about a big club bias in the England team before and that is obviously normally big English clubs, but there are some other numbers that maybe trouble that.  They also trouble @Unnamed Trialist point about being "overpaid" in England. Though I can also  agree partially with it. 

 

In all these tournaments, through all the national teams, the English league system provides the most players, sometimes by a lot.

Ie. It's not just the English manager who is picking English league players. 
 

The English league system provided over 100 players to every one of these tournaments, the only other team to reach that is Italy at this year's Euros. 

The most (always English) and least by year

2014 - 119 to Spain's 64

2016 - 135 to Spain's 35

2018 - 129 to Italy's 58 (Italy missed that World Cup, to give context)

2020 - 147 to Spain's 42 

2022 - 164 to Italy's 68 (Again missed that)

2023 - 114 to Spain's 56 (?Serie A renaissance reflected in that Italy were close with 104). 

 

So maybe many of the better (the best is a somewhat different argument) players are playing in England, so logically they would get paid more and get picked more often for national teams (again not just England's).  For instance, I don't think Heimir Hallgrímsson had an English bias when he pick so many England-based players for Jamaica. 

Edited August 27 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[ahmedou]

No Koleosho, No Problems

Next

 

[blueseeka]

Called to Italian u21 team. Still not captied

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

3 hours ago, blueseeka said:

Called to Italian u21 team. Still not captied

Link is here:

https://www.figc.it/it/nazionali/news/il-cammino-nelle-qualificazioni-alleuropeo-riparte-dalle-sfide-contro-san-marino-e-norvegia-savona-la-novità-tra-i-convocati-di-nunziata/

For reference, this is the senior squad:

https://www.figc.it/it/nazionali/news/ventitré-convocati-per-le-gare-con-francia-e-israele-torna-tonali-le-novità-sono-okoli-e-brescianini/

 

[Kadenge]

I know Luca's mother is Italian Canadian, but was she  born in Canada or Italy? Watched him play for the first time, Burnley vs Blackburn. He's pacey with good 1v1 skills. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Kadenge said:

I know Luca's mother is Italian Canadian, but was she  born in Canada or Italy? Watched him play for the first time, Burnley vs Blackburn. He's pacey with good 1v1 skills. 

Born in Canada, I believe in Montreal.

[Kadenge]

Not in the squad for Italy U21 in their 7-0 win over San Marino today.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

8 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Not in the squad for Italy U21 in their 7-0 win over San Marino today.

He has been removed from the U21 list:

https://www.figc.it/it/nazionali/news/latina-accoglie-gli-azzurrini-giovedì-al-francioni-italia-san-marino-nunziata-orgogliosi-di-essere-qui-lassessore-palazzo-sarà-una-festa/

but he wasn't added to the senior team list.

An injury?

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

23 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

An injury?

"Causa indisponibilità l'attaccante del Burnley Luca Koleosho non potrà rispondere alla convocazione"

https://figc.it/it/nazionali/news/il-cammino-nelle-qualificazioni-alleuropeo-riparte-dalle-sfide-contro-san-marino-e-norvegia-savona-la-novità-tra-i-convocati-di-nunziata/

They simply listed him as unavailable. Vague.

[dyslexic nam]

 

Just kidding. 

[Kadenge]

52 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

"Causa indisponibilità l'attaccante del Burnley Luca Koleosho non potrà rispondere alla convocazione"

https://figc.it/it/nazionali/news/il-cammino-nelle-qualificazioni-alleuropeo-riparte-dalle-sfide-contro-san-marino-e-norvegia-savona-la-novità-tra-i-convocati-di-nunziata/

They simply listed him as unavailable. Vague.

Let the speculation begin 🙂

[frattinator]

Without any insider information, I would rank our chances below Italy and USA still. Maybe that’s just my emotional hedging, but 1) we are fairly deep on the wings, and 2) he would immediately step into the starting 11 for the US in that position. 
 

But I would be happy to be proven wrong, so cmon Luca prove me wrong!

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, frattinator said:

Without any insider information, I would rank our chances below Italy and USA still. Maybe that’s just my emotional hedging, but 1) we are fairly deep on the wings, and 2) he would immediately step into the starting 11 for the US in that position. 
 

So you are saying he is ahead of Pulisic or Weah? If so, he would  start for us.