Luca Koleosho

[Canadian Chuck]

6 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

He's an American kid born and raised in the US, if his home country wants him, he'll go with them.

And just to add to your point, his father is American too (Nigerian-American) according to today's article from The Athletic. So his connection to the USA is not only that he was born and raised there, he has an American parent. His father is living with him in England according to the article.

As much as many would want him to play for Canada, his ties appear much closer to the US than to Canada

[Canadian Chuck]

The US winger depth is rather overrated.

Aaronson hasn't produced at all in either the PL or Bundesliga. Reyna isn't really a winger and has a feud with Berhalter. Taylor Booth and Malik Tillman, like Reyna, are central midfielders first. Paredes has a ton to prove and is probably a bit behind Koleosho right now.

Koleosho does have a chance to get semi-regular starts for the US because Pulisic and Weah are the only two proven top five league options and both are injury-prone.

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, Canadian Chuck said:

And just to add to your point, his father is American too (Nigerian-American) according to today's article from The Athletic. So his connection to the USA is not only that he was born and raised there, he has an American parent. His father is living with him in England according to the article.

As much as many would want him to play for Canada, his ties appear much closer to the US than to Canada

Nigerians are by and large glory hunters. He's probably pushing him to Italy just as much as his mom is 

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, Canadian Chuck said:

The US winger depth is rather overrated.

Aaronson hasn't produced at all in either the PL or Bundesliga. Reyna isn't really a winger and has a feud with Berhalter. Taylor Booth and Malik Tillman, like Reyna, are central midfielders first. Paredes has a ton to prove and is probably a bit behind Koleosho right now.

Koleosho does have a chance to get semi-regular starts for the US because Pulisic and Weah are the only two proven top five league options and both are injury-prone.

Why would Paredes have any more to prove then Koleosho?  If anything Paredes is more proven than Koleosho is at this point.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

Nigerians are by and large glory hunters. He's probably pushing him to Italy just as much as his mom is 

So how the why did you end up on this board? For the glory?

[zeelaw]

Classic case of getting too good too fast.

[InglewoodJack]

9 hours ago, Canadian Chuck said:

And just to add to your point, his father is American too (Nigerian-American) according to today's article from The Athletic. So his connection to the USA is not only that he was born and raised there, he has an American parent. His father is living with him in England according to the article.

As much as many would want him to play for Canada, his ties appear much closer to the US than to Canada

I wasn't sure if his dad was from Nigeria or if he was born or spent his life in America, but yeah, that's just one more reason he'll go play for the US.

I'll always wonder if there really was a chance for him to cap for us and lock in forever. He seemed surprisingly close, but I doubt that he and his team didn't have the foresight 10 months ago to project that he would get on both the Italy and US radars so quickly. I don't think anything over the last few years in his career has been a fluke. I'll go along and think that our player strike deprived him of a chance to leverage our team to improve his own situation for my peace of mind, but would love to learn years down the road whether we ever had a chance or not.

[SoccMan]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I wasn't sure if his dad was from Nigeria or if he was born or spent his life in America, but yeah, that's just one more reason he'll go play for the US.

I'll always wonder if there really was a chance for him to cap for us and lock in forever. He seemed surprisingly close, but I doubt that he and his team didn't have the foresight 10 months ago to project that he would get on both the Italy and US radars so quickly. I don't think anything over the last few years in his career has been a fluke. I'll go along and think that our player strike deprived him of a chance to leverage our team to improve his own situation for my peace of mind, but would love to learn years down the road whether we ever had a chance or not.

I will be very surprised if he picks Canada , born and raised mainly in the US , maybe Italy because he  played with their youth national teams , but  the US makes more sense .

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So how the why did you end up on this board? For the glory?

I'm the exception of course 😁

[Kadenge]

Not saying he will end up with Canada, but how many Canadians born & raised in Canada have/are playing for another country or holding out for a call from another nation? It's a two way street

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, zeelaw said:

Classic case of getting too good too fast.

Maybe I need to actually watch his play at Burnley, because it seems to me that hype over Koleosho is starting to go a bit overboard?

One poster suggested he may be further along than was Pulisic at the same age. Others have argued he could slot into the USMNT today and be 3rd in the depth chart behind only Weah and Pulisic. Hasn't he only played 5 games with Burnley so far? I guess we have been branding him as an EPL starting calibre winger now because he's been starting, but Burnley have a single point from 4 games. Maybe we should keep that in mind? They're a pretty weak team according to the table.

I know it's early but right now they are firmly amongst the relegation favourites and I expect a lot of the Koleosho to USMNT talk will cool off once he finds he finds himself in the Championship. Maybe if Burnley get relegated he uses his Italian connects to move to Serie A, but also maybe he just settles in the Championship? Good level for a CanMNT player, but not necessarily the level you're going to see the USMNT move mountains for. And for Koleosho, maybe at his age it would simply be better to stay in the Championship and get minutes instead of moving clubs again. 

None of this is to say he will play for us. I am pretty confident he will play for Italy, eventually. I guess I am just holding out hope that maybe he gives up on Italy and views us as the alternative, not the Americans, since they have far more depth than we do. I think overall the USMNT is probably closer to the Italian depth than the CanMNT depth.

Anways, It's probably a fool's hope on my part, but it is what it is.

[VinceA]

He's not playing for us. All of this talk is moot.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Maybe I need to actually watch his play at Burnley, because it seems to me that hype over Koleosho is starting to go a bit overboard?

One poster suggested he may be further along than was Pulisic at the same age. Others have argued he could slot into the USMNT today and be 3rd in the depth chart behind only Weah and Pulisic. Hasn't he only played 5 games with Burnley so far? I guess we have been branding him as an EPL starting calibre winger now because he's been starting, but Burnley have a single point from 4 games. Maybe we should keep that in mind? They're a pretty weak team according to the table.

I know it's early but right now they are firmly amongst the relegation favourites and I expect a lot of the Koleosho to USMNT talk will cool off once he finds he finds himself in the Championship. Maybe if Burnley get relegated he uses his Italian connects to move to Serie A, but also maybe he just settles in the Championship? Good level for a CanMNT player, but not necessarily the level you're going to see the USMNT move mountains for. And for Koleosho, maybe at his age it would simply be better to stay in the Championship and get minutes instead of moving clubs again. 

None of this is to say he will play for us. I am pretty confident he will play for Italy, eventually. I guess I am just holding out hope that maybe he gives up on Italy and views us as the alternative, not the Americans, since they have far more depth than we do. I think overall the USMNT is probably closer to the Italian depth than the CanMNT depth.

Anways, It's probably a fool's hope on my part, but it is what it is.

Potential aside, Whats the difference in quality between a championship winger on the best team producing goals and assists (millar) vs a winger on the worst team in the prem who I believe has one assist? (kolo)

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Bigandy said:

Potential aside, Whats the difference in quality between a championship winger on the best team producing goals and assists (millar) vs a winger on the worst team in the prem who I believe has one assist? (kolo)

Exactly. It's just potential. Koleosho may tear it up for Burnley and be their player of the season and keep them up. Or, he could get dragged down into the Championship and settle there, or worse he could hit a rough patch and end up playing reserve team ball. He did play a lot with the Espanyol B in the very recent past. 

Here's the thing too, it's not just age ....it's reps. Koleosho is 19 years old, but has played very little first team games, must be around 10 combined between Espanyol and Burnley. Ricardo Pepi is 20 and has over 100 games under his belt. There is a LOT of potential with Pepi, but we also have a better idea of what his career arch will be. We simply don't have the same about of data right now on Koleosho.

[Dominic94]

19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Exactly. It's just potential. Koleosho may tear it up for Burnley and be their player of the season and keep them up. Or, he could get dragged down into the Championship and settle there, or worse he could hit a rough patch and end up playing reserve team ball. He did play a lot with the Espanyol B in the very recent past. 

Here's the thing too, it's not just age ....it's reps. Koleosho is 19 years old, but has played very little first team games, must be around 10 combined between Espanyol and Burnley. Ricardo Pepi is 20 and has over 100 games under his belt. There is a LOT of potential with Pepi, but we also have a better idea of what his career arch will be. We simply don't have the same about of data right now on Koleosho.

At the end of the day, there will be more duals and eventually they will lose even bigger ones than Koleosho

[Unnamed Trialist]

Koleosho will be on a 2nd tier team roster by next May and Espanyol will have promoted to la Liga again. So in a year his former B team buddies will be carving out their Liga careers and he's be lucky to get a transfer or loan to stay in EPL.

[narduch]

11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Koleosho will be on a 2nd tier team roster by next May and Espanyol will have promoted to la Liga again. So in a year his former B team buddies will be carving out their Liga careers and he's be lucky to get a transfer or loan to stay in EPL.

I predict Italy cap ties him in October v Malta, subbing in at the 89th minute with Italy already leading 4-0.

When Burnley relegates he will move to some mid tier Serie A team (Udinese or Fiorentina, etc.)

Edited September 19, 2023 by narduch

[dyslexic nam]

FWIW, this is exactly the kind of case people are thinking of when they hope a talented dual does well - but not too well.  Some people scoff at that idea as if it is blasphemous, but the reality is that most of these guys look at their international careers as business decisions rather than matters of the heart.  And unfortunately, from a business perspective, Canada is often the second (or in this case, third) choice.  So if someone overachieves and earns a callup from a top nation, we generally lose out (see Tomori, and now Koleosho).  

It isn’t ludicrous to want some dual prospects to just do okay while they are undecided - it is pragmatism.   
 

[Unnamed Trialist]

46 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

FWIW, this is exactly the kind of case people are thinking of when they hope a talented dual does well - but not too well.  Some people scoff at that idea as if it is blasphemous, but the reality is that most of these guys look at their international careers as business decisions rather than matters of the heart.  And unfortunately, from a business perspective, Canada is often the second (or in this case, third) choice.  So if someone overachieves and earns a callup from a top nation, we generally lose out (see Tomori, and now Koleosho).  

It isn’t ludicrous to want some dual prospects to just do okay while they are undecided - it is pragmatism.   
 

For his position, I'd much prefer to see Tomori make a switch, it'd benefit us incredibly. 

Canada is not in dire need of an outside attacker, unless of course Luca rises notably and starts producing some stats to go along with the play.

[Ruud]

Why play for Italy or US right now?  I think people overestimate how much fun Berhalter is!

and Italy may not even make 2026 or the next Euros 

[Ruud]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:42 AM, VinceA said:

He's not playing for us. All of this talk is moot.

He has come to camp… not all is lost 

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

FWIW, this is exactly the kind of case people are thinking of when they hope a talented dual does well - but not too well.  Some people scoff at that idea as if it is blasphemous, but the reality is that most of these guys look at their international careers as business decisions rather than matters of the heart.  And unfortunately, from a business perspective, Canada is often the second (or in this case, third) choice.  So if someone overachieves and earns a callup from a top nation, we generally lose out (see Tomori, and now Koleosho).  

It isn’t ludicrous to want some dual prospects to just do okay while they are undecided - it is pragmatism.   
 

Fully agree except I would see it more like first choice Italy and debatable which is his second choice between us and the USA. Did he recently say that USA is his 2nd choice? I feel like we are automatically relegating ourselves to 3rd because the USA have more talent, but to me that may actually work to our advantage.

To me it's certainly debatable which is his 2nd choice and that is actually a compliment to the states as well. I don't think their depth is far off the Italian depth, so if he cannot break into the Italian senior team I am not convinced he makes an impact with the Yanks. They'd cap tie him in a second no doubt, but how likely is it he cannot earn a senior cap for Italy but he can just walk into the USA team? Doesn't seem a slam dunk to me right now. Maybe he'd have the confidence to file the US switch and bet on himself though ..

Edited September 22, 2023 by Obinna

[Bigandy]

We want him to do well but not too well... 

My hope is that he gets relegated, stays for kompany and does well in the championship....but who cares about the championship. Italy dont push too hard and then we have a battle vs the states. He sees we've hired a good coach and that hes a starter for us. 3 potential world class players join the program. Nimick, stefanovic and an unknown CDM all join the prem and we have some quality depth too. Koleosho cannot resist when we announce hargreaves has filed his one time switch and is coming out of retirement. 

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

For his position, I'd much prefer to see Tomori make a switch, it'd benefit us incredibly. 

Canada is not in dire need of an outside attacker, unless of course Luca rises notably and starts producing some stats to go along with the play.

I still maintain the Tomori was the single biggest (realistic) loss since the whore.  In our area of greatest need we had the (slim) chance of locking down a premium young CB who could have anchored our defence for 3-4 cycles.  That one will never cease to sting. 

[dyslexic nam]

36 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I feel like we are automatically relegating ourselves to 3rd because the USA have more talent, but to me that may actually work to our advantage.

To me it's certainly debatable which is his 2nd choice and that is actually a compliment to the states as well. I don't think their depth is far off the Italian depth, so if he cannot break into the Italian senior team I am not convinced he makes an impact with the Yanks. They'd cap tie him in a second no doubt, but how likely is it he cannot earn a senior cap for Italy but he can just walk into the USA team? Doesn't seem a slam dunk to me right now. Maybe he'd have the confidence to file the US switch and bet on himself though ..

Guilty as charged.  Maybe we can sneak into second spot whether due to his potential (young) teammates or because of some connection.  But for me he is still a lost cause when it comes to the red and white.