Luca Koleosho

[Obinna]

32 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

More than a bit surprised he's starting for Burnley. Yes they just got promoted but he hardly played in La Liga last season and didn't play much in Spain's 2nd division. He was injured a lot though. Anyone watch him play at Butnley? Think it's either Italy or Canada, if we can get our house in order.  If it was the US why not commit to them now? WC  2026 in the bag & Copa 24 while Italy is in transition. I get Euro youth football is better but the US are calling him to the senior team.

Because he plans on taking Italy as far as it can go. Unfortunately I don't see how it's either Italy or Canada, because if Canada is in the picture then why not USA? If we use the logic that he would have committed to the USA now if he wanted to play for them, then go back to the first sentence of this paragraph. 

I think our saving grace is that he's gotten to know the Canadian players on two occassions. Hopefully he's formed some relationships and kept in touch with them. I'd like to think we have the advantage in that department. Balogun had Musa in his ear for example, they played youth ball at Arsenal together. Hopefully Davies or David formed a nice relationship with him and keeps Canada front of mind for him. I mean, these players tend to have WhatsApp groups and such they keep in contact with, and since Luca was called up twice maybe he's still in such a group. Or, maybe he left the group once he started getting Italy youth calls. 

Would love to be an insider on that kind of thing and know to what degree Luca keeps up with the boys, if he does at all. 

[blueseeka]

43 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Would love to be an insider on that kind of thing and know to what degree Luca keeps up with the boys, if he does at all. 

He (or his rep) just liked Liam instagram post on his move to Preston. We are back in boys...lol

[Kadenge]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Because he plans on taking Italy as far as it can go. Unfortunately I don't see how it's either Italy or Canada, because if Canada is in the picture then why not USA? If we use the logic that he would have committed to the USA now if he wanted to play for them, then go back to the first sentence of this paragraph. 

I think our saving grace is that he's gotten to know the Canadian players on two occassions. Hopefully he's formed some relationships and kept in touch with them. I'd like to think we have the advantage in that department. Balogun had Musa in his ear for example, they played youth ball at Arsenal together. Hopefully Davies or David formed a nice relationship with him and keeps Canada front of mind for him. I mean, these players tend to have WhatsApp groups and such they keep in contact with, and since Luca was called up twice maybe he's still in such a group. Or, maybe he left the group once he started getting Italy youth calls. 

Would love to be an insider on that kind of thing and know to what degree Luca keeps up with the boys, if he does at all. 

As you said he  attended 2 "A" camps with Canada including the training pre WC. He has not, as far as I know, attended an "A" USA camp. I have to go back and check but I think he only attended a youth camp for the US which was not even  an "A" youth squad. Going on memory there. He's also said that his favorite player is Phonzie. Italy is in front right now, but if not I still think we are his 2nd option, but we really do have to get our house in order and the sooner the better. 

[Kadenge]

3 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

How could he have played in Segunda División?

You're right, it was with Espanyol B vs segunda

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

How could he have played in Segunda División?

You are right, he had no 2nd division option at all.  I assumed he meant with the B team (fourth tier). He was not healthy last year and had few appearances overall and played a relatively low amount of minutes.

[blueseeka]

Luca With a great run which lead to an assist in the 4'. The announcers also referred to him as the "young Italian winger"

Edited September 2, 2023 by blueseeka

[blueseeka]

 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

He has been called to the Italian U20 squad:

https://www.figc.it/it/nazionali/news/sarà-alberto-bollini-a-guidare-gli-azzurrini-23-convocati-per-le-prime-due-sfide-di-elite-league-contro-germania-e-repubblica-ceca/

It's the same youth friendly tournament that Owen Goodman will be participating in for England.

 

Just for reference, here is the Italian U21 squad:

https://www.figc.it/it/nazionali/news/il-nuovo-biennio-inizia-in-lettonia-e-turchia-nunziata-convoca-26-calciatori-per-lesordio-nelle-qualificazioni-europee/

And their senior squad:

https://www.figc.it/it/nazionali/news/prime-convocazioni-per-spalletti-il-neo-ct-chiama-29-calciatori-per-le-gare-con-nord-macedonia-e-ucraina/

Edited September 2, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[sebdeserio]

Burnley's main outlet and best player of the first half against Forest creating the goal. Hope he ends up with Italy or somehow Nigeria because it would suck to have him in CONCACAF.

Edited September 18, 2023 by sebdeserio

[The Real Marc]

Article on him via the NYTimes app. 

[InglewoodJack]

Overdue to kick this thread over to World Soccer. He hasn't committed, but we're not even the second choice anymore.

[Obinna]

31 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Burnley's main outlet and best player of the first half against Forest creating the goal. Hope he ends up with Italy or somehow Nigeria because it would suck to have him in CONCACAF.

I guess the good news is that he's not playing ahead of Pulisic and probably Weah. Is he ahead of Aaronson or Reyna out wide? Maybe...since neither is a pure winger...but I am not convinced. Is he ahead of Parades at Wolfsburg, who is just a year older but who is further ahead in his career in terms of first team minutes?

That's probably the type of guy he'd be competing with and Parades himself had to wait over a year before he got on the field for the USMNT. Paredes can also play wing back and winger, kind of like Buchanan, which I am not sure is in Koleosho's locker. I seem to recall him playing wingback at least once for Españyol...

This is not to say his job will be much easier getting into the Italian team, but it's probably not much tougher either, and I am banking on the fact he can play for Italy without necessarily losing his eligibility. If that proves a frustrating task and if he's desperate for a long international career (a lot of IFs admittedly), Canada would be his best bet. As things stand he's really just behind Davies and Buchanan and to be honest he's probably not that far behind Buchanan. 

 

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Overdue to kick this thread over to World Soccer. He hasn't committed, but we're not even the second choice anymore.

I think we had a small chance with JH. We may get another chance depending on the next manager we hire. But its really hard to see a possibility he picks us anytime soon. 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Overdue to kick this thread over to World Soccer. He hasn't committed, but we're not even the second choice anymore.

Is that based on the NYT article?

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I guess the good news is that he's not playing ahead of Pulisic and probably Weah. Is he ahead of Aaronson or Reyna out wide? Maybe...since neither is a pure winger...but I am not convinced. Is he ahead of Parades at Wolfsburg, who is just a year older but who is further ahead in his career in terms of first team minutes?

That's probably the type of guy he'd be competing with and Parades himself had to wait over a year before he got on the field for the USMNT. Paredes can also play wing back and winger, kind of like Buchanan, which I am not sure is in Koleosho's locker. I seem to recall him playing wingback at least once for Españyol...

This is not to say his job will be much easier getting into the Italian team, but it's probably not much tougher either, and I am banking on the fact he can play for Italy without necessarily losing his eligibility. If that proves a frustrating task and if he's desperate for a long international career (a lot of IFs admittedly), Canada would be his best bet. As things stand he's really just behind Davies and Buchanan and to be honest he's probably not that far behind Buchanan. 

 

I think davies goes LB and buchanan plays on one wing. The other wing is a wide open race. On paper, kolo easily slots into our starting lineup as winger. 

davies, cornelius, ZMG AJ 
Kone staq
buchanan oso/hoilet/choiniere Kolo
David 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think davies goes LB and buchanan plays on one wing. The other wing is a wide open race. On paper, kolo easily slots into our starting lineup as winger. 

davies, cornelius, ZMG AJ 
Kone staq
buchanan oso/hoilet/choiniere Kolo
David 

I like it. Larin never seems to be good as a sub but still may be worth it to get Koleosho on the field.

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I think we had a small chance with JH. We may get another chance depending on the next manager we hire. But its really hard to see a possibility he picks us anytime soon. 

I think we had a very small chance, and if he plays that friendly against Iran, he gets called up to the world cup, and maybe he accepts and then we're good. I think Italy was already beating around the bush at that point and he would've likely played the friendly and bounced, but we had a very small window, and now it's closed. I don't think coach will make a difference.

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Is that based on the NYT article?

Just based on everything. He's firmly in the Italy youth setting, and this is the first time that there's been explicit USMNT interest from him. He's an American kid born and raised in the US, if his home country wants him, he'll go with them. And he should. He's a 19 year old premier league starter; I wouldn't worry about breaking into the roster and going with us because he might have an easier time getting minutes for us vs. them.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think we had a very small chance, and if he plays that friendly against Iran, he gets called up to the world cup, and maybe he accepts and then we're good. I think Italy was already beating around the bush at that point and he would've likely played the friendly and bounced, but we had a very small window, and now it's closed. I don't think coach will make a difference.

Just based on everything. He's firmly in the Italy youth setting, and this is the first time that there's been explicit USMNT interest from him. He's an American kid born and raised in the US, if his home country wants him, he'll go with them. And he should. He's a 19 year old premier league starter; I wouldn't worry about breaking into the roster and going with us because he might have an easier time getting minutes for us vs. them.

His home country wants him but he's not going to be a starter for them. Same is true for Italy but at least he can be patient and see where it goes. Can't really do that with the USA. If you are Luca do you make a switch knowing there's a reasonable chance you will be a bit part player? If you are okay being a bit part player why not just stay with Italy? My thinking is that maybe if he switches it's to be an important player, not just a squad player. That's where Canada can come in, I am hoping.

Does that make sense?

[Obinna]

@InglewoodJack if you disagree and believe that he'd get a lot of minutes then great I would love to have that debate/conversation.

[Bigandy]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

His home country wants him but he's not going to be a starter for them. Same is true for Italy but at least he can be patient and see where it goes. Can't really do that with the USA. If you are Luca do you make a switch knowing there's a reasonable chance you will be a bit part player? If you are okay being a bit part player why not just stay with Italy? My thinking is that maybe if he switches it's to be an important player, not just a squad player. That's where Canada can come in, I am hoping.

Does that make sense?

Italian wingers 
Berardi 
Chiesa 
Politano 
Gnoto
Zacagni
Raspadori?
Zaniolo?

Theres certainly options for italy too. 

Koleosho would only be guaranteed to start for us. 

[InglewoodJack]

24 minutes ago, Obinna said:

His home country wants him but he's not going to be a starter for them. Same is true for Italy but at least he can be patient and see where it goes. Can't really do that with the USA. If you are Luca do you make a switch knowing there's a reasonable chance you will be a bit part player? If you are okay being a bit part player why not just stay with Italy? My thinking is that maybe if he switches it's to be an important player, not just a squad player. That's where Canada can come in, I am hoping.

Does that make sense?

Other than Pulisic who was a semi-starter for BVB at that age, none of the US' other guys were where LK is at his age, and even with Pulisic, I think Koleosho might have as if not a more impressive resume to this point. Aaronson hasn't looked good for Berlin, wasn't very good with Leeds, he's not a guy you worry about standing in your way, and Reyna has a blood fued with Berhalter.

Also, re: bit player in general- do players actually switch when the choice is between being a bench player vs. starter? When I look at our biggest dual nat wins over the past, it's Eustaquio, Vitoria, Ugbo, all these guys who were so far out of their other nation's systems that the choice was between playing minutes for us or not playing any international ball at all. Guys we've lost to relatively similar quality countries like Mitrovic, Morris, etc., will probably have a much more difficult time starting for those teams than us, but that didn't dissuade them.

Plus, we say next WC is a home tournament for us, but it's even more of a home tournament for the Americans. While he might potentially play one game in Toronto at the next WC if he goes with us, he's guaranteed to play probably 3-5 games on American soil regardless. As an American kid, doing that with another country's shirt on your back has to be weird.

Basically, I don't think the potential additional minutes playing for us is worth giving up his home country or Italy for. Plus, in our depth chart, AD is always going to be a threat for that LW spot, and barring whatever injury he has now, Buchanan is apparently all but an Atletico Madrid player (where have we heard that before...). Liam Millar is another coach favourite too.  Davies and Buchanan is better wing depth than Pulisic and Weah if he's worrying about that aspect too.

 

Edit: mentioned Buchanan because for some reason I thought Koleosho played on both wings. Even if we’re just focusing on the left, we’ve got the best left winger in concacaf. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Obinna]

17 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Other than Pulisic who was a semi-starter for BVB at that age, none of the US' other guys were where LK is at his age, and even with Pulisic, I think Koleosho might have as if not a more impressive resume to this point. Aaronson hasn't looked good for Berlin, wasn't very good with Leeds, he's not a guy you worry about standing in your way, and Reyna has a blood fued with Berhalter.

Also, re: bit player in general- do players actually switch when the choice is between being a bench player vs. starter? When I look at our biggest dual nat wins over the past, it's Eustaquio, Vitoria, Ugbo, all these guys who were so far out of their other nation's systems that the choice was between playing minutes for us or not playing any international ball at all. Guys we've lost to relatively similar quality countries like Mitrovic, Morris, etc., will probably have a much more difficult time starting for those teams than us, but that didn't dissuade them.

Plus, we say next WC is a home tournament for us, but it's even more of a home tournament for the Americans. While he might potentially play one game in Toronto at the next WC if he goes with us, he's guaranteed to play probably 3-5 games on American soil regardless. As an American kid, doing that with another country's shirt on your back has to be weird.

Basically, I don't think the potential additional minutes playing for us is worth giving up his home country or Italy for. Plus, in our depth chart, AD is always going to be a threat for that LW spot, and barring whatever injury he has now, Buchanan is apparently all but an Atletico Madrid player (where have we heard that before...). Liam Millar is another coach favourite too.  Davies and Buchanan is better wing depth than Pulisic and Weah if he's worrying about that aspect too.

 

Edit: mentioned Buchanan because for some reason I thought Koleosho played on both wings. Even if we’re just focusing on the left, we’ve got the best left winger in concacaf. 

It's a very good point you bring up with Morris and Mitrovic, thanks for that.

Morris committed himself to the hard road with the USA vs the easy road with Canada, which shows that players don't always take the easy road. However, for me Koleosho has two hard roads and an easy road (ignoring Nigeria for sake of argument) and the Italian hard road is actually easier from the perspective that he doesn't have to do or change anything, just play his football and wait for a call.

Mitrovic is different for me. I guess we can say Mitrovic will have more difficulty starting for Serbia, that's true, but he was also playing for their youth teams and doing well, so I would say that's Italy in the Koleosho situation, not the United States. Remember, he needs to file a switch to play for them. He cannot play youth ball and ease himself into it like Mitrovic.

It is a bit wild to suggest Koleosho is further along than Pulisic was at the same age, but regardless I don't know how much value we can take from saying he is already better than so-and-so at that age, because the reality is he's not better than these guys today. Are you playing over Weah if you are Koleosho? Are you even playing over Aaronson? None of these guys are aging out anytime soon and Koleosho would be looking at a long international career as backup to Pulisic and Weah. Maybe Aaronson he can get ahead of or Reyna, simply for the fact both are ideally inside players. 

You have a good argument though because if we say Davies-Buchanan is roughly equal to Pulisic-Weah then maybe there isn't many more minutes for him at Canada versus the States. Again though I think of the US depth and our depth and go back to my premise that Canada is an easier nut to crack. If we got Koleosho tomorrow we'd likely re-jig our line up to start him (see @Bigandy's post), whereas you don't do that if you are the States - at least in my opinion for what it's worth.

[InglewoodJack]

5 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It's a very good point you bring up with Morris and Mitrovic, thanks for that.

Morris committed himself to the hard road with the USA vs the easy road with Canada, which shows that players don't always take the easy road. However, for me Koleosho has two hard roads and an easy road (ignoring Nigeria for sake of argument) and the Italian hard road is actually easier from the perspective that he doesn't have to do or change anything, just play his football and wait for a call.

Mitrovic is different for me. I guess we can say Mitrovic will have more difficulty starting for Serbia, that's true, but he was also playing for their youth teams and doing well, so I would say that's Italy in the Koleosho situation, not the United States. Remember, he needs to file a switch to play for them. He cannot play youth ball and ease himself into it like Mitrovic.

It is a bit wild to suggest Koleosho is further along than Pulisic was at the same age, but regardless I don't know how much value we can take from saying he is already better than so-and-so at that age, because the reality is he's not better than these guys today. Are you playing over Weah if you are Koleosho? Are you even playing over Aaronson? None of these guys are aging out anytime soon and Koleosho would be looking at a long international career as backup to Pulisic and Weah. Maybe Aaronson he can get ahead of or Reyna, simply for the fact both are ideally inside players. 

You have a good argument though because if we say Davies-Buchanan is roughly equal to Pulisic-Weah then maybe there isn't many more minutes for him at Canada versus the States. Again though I think of the US depth and our depth and go back to my premise that Canada is an easier nut to crack. If we got Koleosho tomorrow we'd likely re-jig our line up to start him (see @Bigandy's post), whereas you don't do that if you are the States - at least in my opinion for what it's worth.

My whole point is more or less that players don't typically commit to one team over another when the difference is starting vs. riding the bench- they usually do when the door to the better team shuts. Not to mention, teams don't field the same lineup every single game. Koleosho isn't a lock to be a world cup starter today, but he could start on a team that wins the Gold Cup or Nations League. My point in comping his progress to CP and Weah is that he's probably looking to his future- by 2026 he should be a premier league player with 3 years of experience at just 22. He should consider himself, and I'm sure his people are considering him a top talent who has as much skill and potential as anyone on that US team. These guys don't make it this far without betting on themselves, I don't know why he wouldn't try betting on himself to be a big part of the USMNT.

[Bison44]

23 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Morris committed himself to the hard road with the USA vs the easy road with Canada, which shows that players don't always take the easy road. However, for me Koleosho has two hard roads and an easy road (ignoring Nigeria for sake of argument) and the Italian hard road is actually easier from the perspective that he doesn't have to do or change anything, just play his football and wait for a call.

 

I still think there are some players out there that see only one road eh?  They may toy with other countries a bit, but  are really only going to commit to one, no matter how hard or easy the roads are.  

[RJB]

He should play for wherever his heart is. Enough nation shopping with these guys.  It shouldn't be about what the country can do for you and your career, but how you came help them be better, because you love the country.