Travel for January 30 Canada match

[CanadianTraveller]

13 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think the covid test requirement by our government will throw cold water on some contemplating coming up for the game. If that continues I really dont expect big numbers coming up here

$150 (for a test) is a rounding error for U.S. travel to games. And for 9 out of 10 expected travellers, their health insurance covers the cost. And for the other 10% who might care, they can get a free PCR test just by asking...just like Canadians returning from the U.S.

Vax requirement shouldn't slow too many either, since many U.S. stadia already have a similar requirement. 

[Cblake]

Just now, CanadianTraveller said:

$150 (for a test) is a rounding error for U.S. travel to games. And for 9 out of 10 expected travellers, their health insurance covers the cost. And for the other 10% who might care, they can get a free PCR test just by asking...just like Canadians returning from the U.S.

Vax requirement shouldn't slow too many either, since many U.S. stadia already have a similar requirement. 

AO will be at the game in full force, anyone who doubts that is out to lunch. 

[CanadianTraveller]

9 hours ago, nfitz said:

We keep hearing this. But the roof does clear quickly naturally when there is snow on it. And they do schedule events in the stadium in the winter.

The difference is that two teams have a flight to a game 72 hours later - at absolute best you'd have an 18 hour window to get the game in. And one of those two teams will insist they leave immediately once the game is "postponed" to obtain a forfeit.

A bit different from losing a day or two out of 4 at the annual auto show. Anything greater than a 0.5% chance of "postponement" isn't worth the risk given the potential cost and minimal benefit.

But hey...take it to the players: "Team, we could play indoors in Montreal, but if there is significant snowfall on game day we forfeit the match without getting a chance to play. No risk of snow-forfeit in any other city. Any takers?" You know the answer....

[gator]

I suppose BC Place presents the least risk for  postponement although there is new turf that needs to be installed on time, the negatives there are if in fact the team doesn't want the extra travel and of course a large US contingent showing up, I don't think BMO's grass would be ready in January and if snow accumulated faster than undersoil heating could melt it what a mess it would be, TD Place in Ottawa looks nice and it is pointed out that there is covering for the delicate fans but as pointed out the weather in January is a fair bit colder than Southern Ontario! There is only one viable option here, Tim Hortons Field! 😀

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, CanadianTraveller said:

$150 (for a test) is a rounding error for U.S. travel to games. And for 9 out of 10 expected travellers, their health insurance covers the cost. And for the other 10% who might care, they can get a free PCR test just by asking...just like Canadians returning from the U.S.

Vax requirement shouldn't slow too many either, since many U.S. stadia already have a similar requirement. 

It's not about the cost. Maybe as a middle aged family man I have different priorities and responsibilities but I wouldn't be willing to potentially disrupt mine and everyone else around me lives just to go watch a football match on a 24hr turnaround. That's a bit selfish. If you've pre planned, booked a week off work anyways, travel refundable etc and as I said maybe the Americans don't make you do the hokey pokey if they give you a negative test, you just can't go then sure. 

I'm not gonna f up my families, friends, clients, co workers, kids classmates etc etc just to go watch football. To me that's incredibly selfish 

Edited November 18, 2021 by SpursFlu

[Footscray]

Is the risk of forfeit due to weather outdoors in Hamilton much lower than Montreal I wonder.  Snowfall risk may be a bit lower given warmer temps but you are also carrying a risk of a cold snap cancelling the game when you play outdoors that isn't present in a dome.  And is there any way for them to clear the roof of the Big O manually and expedite the process.

BC transportation network is devastated right now, the Coq is going to be down for a long time, not a huge factor for Herdman I am sure but driving down in January is a lot less feasible for the 1,000,000 people living in the BC interior which will probably cut the CDN attendance by a few thousand.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Footscray

[SpursFlu]

7 minutes ago, Footscray said:

Is the risk of forfeit due to weather outdoors in Hamilton much lower than Montreal I wonder.  Snowfall risk may be a bit lower given warmer temps but you are also carrying a risk of a cold snap cancelling the game when you play outdoors that isn't present in a dome.  And is there any way for them to clear the roof of the Big O manually and expedite the process.

BC transportation network is devastated right now, the Coq is going to be down for a long time, not a huge factor for Herdman I am sure but driving down in January is a lot less feasible for the 1,000,000 people living in the BC interior which will probably cut the CDN attendance by a few thousand.

The game is on January 30th. Its November 18th

And I can assure you that if the business plan was to have thousands of people drive in from the Okanagan using the Coquihalla in January then that was a terrible game plan

Edited November 18, 2021 by SpursFlu

[Footscray]

1 minute ago, SpursFlu said:

The game is on January 30th. Its November 18th

I dunno I am not a transportation guy but am hearing anecdotally through others in logistics that it could take a very long time to repair the coq apparently there are 4 or 5 bridges completely destroyed.  And the secondary route the transcan has a major bridge out as well and the rail line is destroyed @ lytton.  I think we are going to basically only have highway 3 and 99 open from rest of Canada into Vancouver for quite a while and those much longer secondary routes which are not highways folks in interior would ever voluntarily drive to get to vancouver in winter.

[narduch]

8 minutes ago, Footscray said:

Is the risk of forfeit due to weather outdoors in Hamilton much lower than Montreal I wonder.  Snowfall risk may be a bit lower given warmer temps but you are also carrying a risk of a cold snap cancelling the game when you play outdoors that isn't present in a dome.  And is there any way for them to clear the roof of the Big O manually and expedite the process.

BC transportation network is devastated right now, the Coq is going to be down for a long time, not a huge factor for Herdman I am sure but driving down in January is a lot less feasible for the 1,000,000 people living in the BC interior which will probably cut the CDN attendance by a few thousand.

If the weather was so bad the match had to be canceled they would not force us to forfeit. The game would be rescheduled. Just like if a Hurricane came through a Caribbean nation.

[SpursFlu]

1 minute ago, Footscray said:

I dunno I am not a transportation guy but am hearing anecdotally through others in logistics that it could take a very long time to repair the coq apparently there are 4 or 5 bridges completely destroyed.  And the secondary route the transcan has a major bridge out as well and the rail line is destroyed @ lytton.  I think we are going to basically only have highway 3 and 99 open from rest of Canada into Vancouver for quite a while and those much longer secondary routes which are not highways folks in interior would ever voluntarily drive to get to vancouver in winter.

It will be fine. Unless they don't want it to be fine

[Footscray]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

If the weather was so bad the match had to be canceled they would not force us to forfeit. The game would be rescheduled. Just like if a Hurricane came through a Caribbean nation.

I wondered about that... I know they reschedule for force majeure type unexpected weather events but I wonder if FIFA would view a very cold day or snowstorm outdoors in Hamilton or heavy snow in Montreal in January in the same light if Canada voluntarily chose the setting.  The probability of that occurring is much much higher than a hurricane.  Honestly don't know on my end. 

I remember when Poland had to cancel that game due to heavy rain and English media was pushing for a forfeit because they had failed to close the stadium roof, though it was just rescheduled to my recollection with no sanctions.

[narduch]

Just now, Footscray said:

I wondered about that... I know they reschedule for force majeure type unexpected weather events but I wonder if FIFA would view a very cold day or snowstorm outdoors in Hamilton or heavy snow in Montreal in January in the same light if Canada voluntarily chose the setting.  The probability of that occurring is much much higher than a hurricane.  Honestly don't know on my end. 

I remember when Poland had to cancel that game due to heavy rain and English media was pushing for a forfeit because they had failed to close the stadium roof, though it was just rescheduled to my recollection with no sanctions.

Its not Canada's fault that FIFA scheduled WCQ during the heart of our winter.

It would be ludicrous to force us to forfeit.

[Footscray]

8 minutes ago, narduch said:

Its not Canada's fault that FIFA scheduled WCQ during the heart of our winter.

It would be ludicrous to force us to forfeit.

Really have no idea how FIFA works and if it would be forfeited... (I guess who does among normal fans) but I am sure the opponent would be calling for a forfeit if Canada voluntarily chose a venue with a reasonable chance of cancellation when there were other surefire options available.

Only citation from FIFA regs I can find say:

Any match which is not played or which is abandoned – except in cases of force majeure recognized by the FIFA Organizing Committee – may lead to the imposition of sanctions against the relevant associations by the FIFA Disciplinary Committee in accordance with the FIFA Disciplinary Code. In such cases, the FIFA Disciplinary Committee may also order that the match be replayed. 

So basically to me reads as, they will be at the mercy of some fifa committee

Edited November 18, 2021 by Footscray

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Postponements or abandonments for weather related reasons would almost certainly get played at a later date as that would be a recognized force majeure. Problem would be calling up players if it wasn't in an international window.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Approve My Account Pls]

Highly doubt that this would be the guy to break the news, but the highlight pack on CBS dropped Hamilton as the location

 

[Footscray]

2 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Postponements for weather related reasons would almost certainly get played at a later date as that would be a recognized force majeure. Problem would be calling up players if it wasn't in an international window.

I know I'm just splitting hairs at this point so bear with me lol but is snow in Hamilton or Montreal in January really a force majeure?

Think a force majeure is defined as an event that is unforeseeable and can not be avoided with due diligence.  

I don't think a snowstorm or cold snap in those two cities in January qualifies as unforeseeable, or even unavoidable if you have other venues available that are not subject to same risk.

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Footscray said:

Really have no idea how FIFA works and if it would be forfeited... (I guess who does among normal fans) but I am sure the opponent would be calling for a forfeit if Canada voluntarily chose a venue with a reasonable chance of cancellation when there were other surefire options available.

Only citation from FIFA regs I can find say:

Any match which is not played or which is abandoned – except in cases of force majeure recognized by the FIFA Organizing Committee – may lead to the imposition of sanctions against the relevant associations by the FIFA Disciplinary Committee in accordance with the FIFA Disciplinary Code. In such cases, the FIFA Disciplinary Committee may also order that the match be replayed. 

So basically to me reads as, they will be at the mercy of some fifa committee

So what if we didn't have an indoor stadium? Most nations don't. Zero chance this would happen.

[Footscray]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

So what if we didn't have an indoor stadium? Most nations don't. Zero chance this would happen.

Then it would be unavoidable risk.  But we do, and that risk is avoidable

[narduch]

Just now, Footscray said:

Then it would be unavoidable risk.  But we do, and that risk is avoidable

Dude, you can't will BC Place. I'm sorry. You are wrong on this one.

[Footscray]

I honestly don't care where they play as far as personal impact.  I am just as happy watching with friends with a beer in a pub or at home.  I just think it's a bad decision on multiple levels and am concerned that it's not going to be in the CMNT's best interest which is what I care most about, finally making an effing WC.  Making the players go from +25 to -10 to +25, playing within driving distance of 8 US MLS clubs and risking a weather event all seem like bad calls to me.  Not angry about it, I'm just shooting the shit on it, and loving it btw as I do talking anything to do with the CMNT.

And I mean all due respect but you've not really provided a counter point on risk of a forfeit there or the force majeure point and just stated I'm wrong which really hasn't convinced me at all.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Footscray

[Beaut]

Be funny if Herdman was just CONCACAFing the US with a bunch of mixed messaging...

[narduch]

Just now, Footscray said:

I honestly don't care where they play.  I am just as happy watching with friends with a beer in a pub or at home.  I just think it's a bad decision on multiple levels and am concerned that it's not going to be in the CMNT's best interest which is what I care most about, finally making an effing WC.  Making the players go from +25 to -10 to +25, playing within driving distance of 8 US MLS clubs and risking a weather event all seem like bad calls to me.  Not angry about it, I'm just shooting the shit on it, and loving it btw as I do talking anything to do with the CMNT.

And I mean all due respect but you've not really provided a counter point on risk of a forfeit there or the force majeure point and just stated I'm wrong which really hasn't convinced me at all.

No offense but you haven't provided any proof a forfeit would be forced either. I've followed World soccer long enough to clearly state that what you are suggesting is total nonsense. Full stop.

We will be inundated with US fans no matter where we play. That I am sure of.

And your worry about players going from 25C to -10C is also laughable. You sound like my mom telling me to put a jacket on.

[Footscray]

I don't know if there is a risk of a forfeit, all I could find was that one passage from FIFA which seems to indicate weather event has to be unforseen and unavoidable which makes me a bit concerned.  I have also never seen a game snowed out in world soccer so maybe there is zero risk of that forfeit happening.  Folks at the CSA will have good info on that through Victor M and his connections so am sure they will be way better equipped than me to make the right call!  Like Beaut said nobody knows yet even where it will be.  Sorry for hijacking the thread all I'll stand down 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Footscray

[Approve My Account Pls]

We're likely going to be arguing this right up until the announcement which has to be a minimum of 60 days before, so end of November. Regardless of location, I hope that Canada Soccer is prepping their marketing asap and tries to capitalize on all the hype they've built this window

[gator]

18 minutes ago, narduch said:

No offense but you haven't provided any proof a forfeit would be forced either. I've followed World soccer long enough to clearly state that what you are suggesting is total nonsense. Full stop.

We will be inundated with US fans no matter where we play. That I am sure of.

And your worry about players going from 25C to -10C is also laughable. You sound like my mom telling me to put a jacket on.

Someone already posted about approximately half their fanbase already being ineligiable to cross the border, we should do everything possible to limit ticket sales to a designated away supporters section and give them the minimum! If the match is at THF away fans scattered amongst the locals will not be a very good idea at all!