WCQ: Third Round - Window 3 (November 12-16, 2021)

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

@Shway Millar is in the form of his life (and probably the second most inform canadian player atm) playing for the 1st place team in Switzerland and with continental football ( the drop from EL to ECL is much much closer than CL to EL imo), and is already incorporated in the group and the tactics. Meanwhile we haven't heard any news about Ennin who's team is near relegation. He definitely could've been called up over Brym the last 2 windows when he got his 2 assists but if you actually think he deserves a callup over Millar right now there's no way you don't have a personal grudge against Millar.

Form of his life is relative, only to himself. As his form of his life isn't comparable to some guys best form (if you get what I mean).
Form is also relative to position, so assuming attacking players. Larin, David, and Buchanan are all ahead of him. He falls into the Ugbo, and Ennin category imo. 

I've seen Millar countless times in a CMNT, I personally can't say what he does good to warrant his name to be a staple/ continue to get several caps. I had the same notion for Piette a few years back, but his game evolved and became more clear as to what his position actually was/ what his skillset was best suited to do.

I've seen Corbeanu come in, and I immediately liked what he brought to the squad with his directness (which has resulted in him scoring 2 goals in 157 minutes in red. 

I've seen Millar do it at Charlton last season, I haven't seen him do it in Canada red.
At this point, I just want to see someone new to get garbage minutes. Ike might be that guy. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

33 minutes ago, Shway said:

FFS I have zero issues with Spitfire, don't @ him for attention (dont worry he likes you). I appreciate his contribution to his sons thread. I want his son, and any other Canadian kids to succeed what the hell. It sounds so juvenile to say I have a problem with someone I haven't met.

You guys are just clearing missing my point. And I've addressed it many times, but no one seems to acknowledge it. 

Why does the energy change for some but not others? Is it because their parent responds on the board? 

We get your point, which IMO seems totally inane. It is a chip, or else you have decided that you are bored with not saying anything of any consequence post over post, so you are just making up faux consequence because it feels good. But you are bad at it.  

I have been critical with Millar, in a constructive way, and am one of those who has posted most about Ennin. Far more than you in fact, I was posting about him last season at Tomsk. He has not had a goal and though playing, is not productive; his just-promoted team started the season well but has slipped, and he is not shining. Fair enough, Ugbo is in a similar situation, though the team is better,  he is still fitting into his new club. But has scored at least with less minutes. 

Millar is a starter on the club leading in Switzerland, with goals and assists, and is playing alongside guys on the Swiss national team--and called to the Brazilian national team. They have CL experience. And he has been in our programme for a long while and is progressing very constantly.

But you don't even know how they play, they are quite different players altogether. Ennin would be the second striker though he could lean to one side, and Millar is definitely an attacking wing, from the left mostly or right. So Ennin would be where Herdman would play Larin, would put David or Larin if Ugbo or Cav were on as a target, and Millar fits in up the right if Tajon is coming off or has a card, a knock. Or if we want to move Davies inside more he gives us a left side attack, the only alternative in fact now that Shaffelburg is not here. 

You can totally disagree with us, fine, your prerogative, but gratuitous slagging, don't think so.

 

[Shway]

19 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I actually agree with you in general re parentposting, but Ennin over Millar is objectively a weird take

We are talking garbage minutes at this point right? Late game substitutions...right? 

I've seen Millar be in this situation multtttippplle times. I want to see someone who hasn't got that opportunity, and has been playing at adequate levels. Ennin fit that description no?

Edited November 5, 2021 by Shway

[Ivan]

Just now, Shway said:

Form of his life is relative, only to himself. As his form of his life isn't comparable to some guys best form (if you get what I mean).
Form is also relative to position, so assuming attacking players. Larin, David, and Buchanan are all ahead of him. He falls into the Ugbo, and Ennin category imo. 

I've seen Millar countless times in a CMNT, I personally can't say what he does good to warrant his name to be a staple/ continue to get several caps. I had the same notion for Piette a few years back, but his game evolved and became more clear as to what his position actually was/ what his skillset was best suited to do.

I've seen Corbeanu come in, and I immediately liked what he brought to the squad with his directness (which has resulted in him scoring 2 goals in 157 minutes in red. 

I've seen Millar do it at Charlton last season, I haven't seen him do it in Canada red.
At this point, I just want to see someone new to get garbage minutes. Ike might be that guy. 

Herdman also makes a point of stressing his "brotherhood" of players and his leadership group.  Togetherness of the team.  That's why he called the injured players last round (Hutch, Larin, Hoillet, Cav) and probably why he called Cav again.  Millar is well integrated in the group.  He may not be part of the leadership group (pure speculation on my part), but is good buddies with Phonzie, David, Adekugbe, ZBG (I know he's not there this time) and others.  ennin may know some of the players, but Millar is far more integrated.

[Mattd97]

1 hour ago, frattinator said:

I remember Herdman said in one of his interviews is that when he calls in players he wants to make sure they can get some game time. It's about respect for their commitment and acknowledging the toll of traveling etc., so if they are called he wants to make sure they have a good chance of at least making some appearances (of course it doesn't always work out that way).  

I think this is it too, herdman is a players coach. But, at this stage in the program, it's a battle to make this squad. Good players are being left off. Good players should want to take that sacrifice and put in that work for a chance. 

We'll get there. But I think we could be there now.

[Shway]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

......You can totally disagree with us, fine, your prerogative, but gratuitous slagging, don't think so.

I would accept this from anyone but you...it's actually hilariously that YOU would have the audacity to say this lol.
Completely voided all possible logic in that post. 

But anyways this topic has become mundane, and past the point of opinion it seems.

Like always, I hope when Liam gets his chance to score - he will!

[Approve My Account Pls]

Not to dead the ongoing argument above, but how close is this to our full strength best 23? Assuming everyone is healthy, I can't see too many changes.

Kennedy in for either Cornelius or Henry is a lock. I'm struggling to see who would come out for Hoilett although he belongs in. For me, just by talent, I'd replace Piette, but Piette offers something as a sub that not many of the other mids do - so maybe Wotherspoon instead? Otherwise the only change I could see is maybe a 3rd keeper swap but thats pretty much irrelevant. 

[Bison44]

2 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Herdman also makes a point of stressing his "brotherhood" of players and his leadership group.  Togetherness of the team.  That's why he called the injured players last round (Hutch, Larin, Hoillet, Cav) and probably why he called Cav again.  Millar is well integrated in the group.  He may not be part of the leadership group (pure speculation on my part), but is good buddies with Phonzie, David, Adekugbe, ZBG (I know he's not there this time) and others.  ennin may know some of the players, but Millar is far more integrated.

What abut IKE then??  Are we saying integration is important  to Herdman etc etc, unless you are just a bit better player (IKE) then it doesnt matter??  I Honestly dont know enough about him to say whether Corbeanu or Ennin etc should are on his level.  But I do understand that he was prob promised an immediate call up before he made his switch to canada and that trumps any notions of brotherhood and togetherness.  

[king1010]

Has Costa Rica put out their squad?

[Shway]

17 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Not to dead the ongoing argument above, but how close is this to our full strength best 23? Assuming everyone is healthy, I can't see too many changes.

Kennedy in for either Cornelius or Henry is a lock. I'm struggling to see who would come out for Hoilett although he belongs in. For me, just by talent, I'd replace Piette, but Piette offers something as a sub that not many of the other mids do - so maybe Wotherspoon instead? Otherwise the only change I could see is maybe a 3rd keeper swap but thats pretty much irrelevant. 

Is Kennedy considered to be in form? He’s been out for what would be a month. He hasn’t played much CMNT to be considered a lock. Imo.

Hoilett always contributes when he plays so I would swap him for one of the attackers.

Can’t switch him for Piette or Wotherspoon as our midfielders are all on cards, and liable to miss a game. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Shway

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Not to dead the ongoing argument above, but how close is this to our full strength best 23? Assuming everyone is healthy, I can't see too many changes.

Kennedy in for either Cornelius or Henry is a lock. I'm struggling to see who would come out for Hoilett although he belongs in. For me, just by talent, I'd replace Piette, but Piette offers something as a sub that not many of the other mids do - so maybe Wotherspoon instead? Otherwise the only change I could see is maybe a 3rd keeper swap but thats pretty much irrelevant. 

Kennedy for Cornelius. Hoilett for Wotherspoon, even though it's not really like-for-like. Pretty much a best 23 after that, on paper, though on current form you could drop Cavallini if there's another player you'd want. Maybe a Corbeanu or Schaffleburg, who some have argued for, or Ennin who's probably deserving of a look. Arguably Brault-Guillard could be included too. 

All in all though, it's pretty close.

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Where the fuck is Liam Fraser?!?  What else are we going to argue about if Fraser isn't there?

(all things considered, I like Liam)

Nevermind.  Looks like we've found something to argue about...

[Obinna]

9 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

What abut IKE then??  Are we saying integration is important  to Herdman etc etc, unless you are just a bit better player (IKE) then it doesnt matter??  I Honestly dont know enough about him to say whether Corbeanu or Ennin etc should are on his level.  But I do understand that he was prob promised an immediate call up before he made his switch to canada and that trumps any notions of brotherhood and togetherness.  

Not sure what point you're making here, but I will say that none of us are experts on the player (Ike), but considering his resume and the circumstances, I am in favor of calling and integrating him. 

A word on Millar and Canada (to back up @Shway a bit) - as good as he's been at Basel, he hasn't been overly impressive for Canada. That's not a disrespectful take and I am sure the Millar camp expect more and believe the best is yet to come from Liam in Red. 

That said, I feel he just needs to put one away for us and his form/confidence will explode, just as we are seeing in Switzerland.

For me though, Millar's call ahead of Ennin is justified right now. Yes the league is a bit lower compared to Russia, but the club is better and top of the table, which is important (for me).

I want Ennin in camp sooner than later, don't get me wrong, but my preference is Millar at the moment. It's not a crazy argument to want the Ennin over Millar though, considering he is already integrated and hasn't set the world on fire for Canada yet. From the view of prioritizing the expansion of the pool you could certainly argue for Ennin over Millar...

[narduch]

17 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Has Costa Rica put out their squad?

I've been checking their official Twitter and haven't seen it yet 

[El Hombre]

Just now, narduch said:

I've been checking their official Twitter and haven't seen it yet 

It's probably taking awhile to track down all their legal guardians so that they can sign them out of the retirement home for this field trip.

[Stryker911]

So much for the Teibert debate.

[lenny]

55 minutes ago, Shway said:

We are talking garbage minutes at this point right? Late game substitutions...right? 
 

That can change quickly with injuries and cards, so it has to be the best player getting the call, and I think Millar has the edge on Ennin at this point.

And if Millar wouldn't be the first one I'd drop - it would be Cav.

[Approve My Account Pls]

37 minutes ago, Shway said:

Is Kennedy considered to be in form? He’s been out for what would be a month. He hasn’t played much CMNT to be considered a lock. Imo.

Hoilett always contributes when he plays so I would swap him for one of the attackers.

Can’t switch him for Piette or Wotherspoon as our midfielders are all on cards, and liable to miss a game. 

If you read I put in the assume everyone is healthy. I'm less debating for this window and more for in general what is our best 23. Kennedy's clearly not healthy, forget in form, therefore no one's arguing his current inclusion. Sure he hasn't played much, but I don't think there's too many people arguing that when healthy he slots in immediately ahead of both Cornelius and Henry at the least.

Same goes for the argument about Hoilett, cards aren't really relevant in a generic best 23 debate. But on that point you bring up, if you're replacing him for an attacker, curious to know who you'd bring out for him?

[Approve My Account Pls]

51 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

What abut IKE then??  Are we saying integration is important  to Herdman etc etc, unless you are just a bit better player (IKE) then it doesnt matter??  I Honestly dont know enough about him to say whether Corbeanu or Ennin etc should are on his level.  But I do understand that he was prob promised an immediate call up before he made his switch to canada and that trumps any notions of brotherhood and togetherness.  

Yes

[Joe MacCarthy]

Don't need drones for this one, Herdman will manipulate the artificial turf.

[Francois79]

With a 23 man roster, Is it crazy to think that since it's a full camp at home, Herdman could call few more players, local guys, like ZBG, Tiebert, Okello, Baldissimo, Nelson, Choiniere, even some CPL guys like Zator, Didic, Yao, Ongaro, Campbell...

[Shway]

22 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

If you read I put in the assume everyone is healthy. I'm less debating for this window and more for in general what is our best 23. Kennedy's clearly not healthy, forget in form, therefore no one's arguing his current inclusion. Sure he hasn't played much, but I don't think there's too many people arguing that when healthy he slots in immediately ahead of both Cornelius and Henry at the least.

Same goes for the argument about Hoilett, cards aren't really relevant in a generic best 23 debate. But on that point you bring up, if you're replacing him for an attacker, curious to know who you'd bring out for him?

Lol I edited what I initially wrote because I thought it was form based. 

But cmon the all time assists leader, and can contribute for goals too…you know who I’m replacing if it’s simply a best 23 and not form based.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Shway

[Floortom]

3 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Don't need drones for this one, Herdman will manipulate the artificial turf.

I saw that and didn’t really understand - isn’t the turf what it is? It’s not like grass that can be manipulated. How do you change the way turf plays? 

[Bison44]

HAHA, I dont know why we have to debate this so hard....why couldnt we call a couple extra??  Ennin and Fraser just for El Hombre.  And talking about "garbage minutes".....this is WCQ....having to bring in Brym to play shows us that we shouldnt ever just assume that we have enough guys and its a waste to call someone.  Look at Kaye all those years ago. 

[Approve My Account Pls]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

Lol I edited what initially wrote because I thought I was form based. 

But cmon the all time assists leader, and can contribute for goals too…you know who I’m replacing if it’s simply a best 23 and not form based.

Yeah, for me it's not a debate of Hoilett being in a best 23 but rather who comes out. So in that regard I was more curious as to which attacker you drop as opposed to a midfield player. I'd personally just rather have Millar or Cav (those are the two attackers that come to mind as options for me to drop) as an option off the bench as opposed to Wotherspoon or Piette. I do understand that Piette offers a skillset in the midfield that we don't have a lot of on the bench and that's pure defensive mindset in the centre of the park.