2023 U20 CONCACAF Championship and U23 Olympic Qualification to be merged in a tournament in Summer 2022

[JamesF]

 

[Pottsy3]

12 hours ago, JamesF said:

 

Very interesting to see Justin Smith wearing the armband.

[Sal333]

2 hours ago, Pottsy3 said:

Very interesting to see Justin Smith wearing the armband.

Interesting in the sense that Tomori, a CB,  also wore the armband for U20 Canada?

[SpecialK]

32 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Interesting in the sense that Tomori, a CB,  also wore the armband for U20 Canada?

 

[Vasi]

1 hour ago, Sal333 said:

Interesting in the sense that Tomori, a CB,  also wore the armband for U20 Canada?

Lol.....well you just shat on everyone's future projection of what our 2026 anchor CB could be. 😝

[Shway]

Only difference is France doesn’t captie for capturing sake.

As soon as an English dual  player is making noise with another country, they pop back up with keen interest.

[Sal333]

20 minutes ago, Vasi said:

Lol.....well you just shat on everyone's future projection of what our 2026 anchor CB could be. 😝

You used the word "shat". For players this age I'd like to use the phrase "temper our expectations". After Tomori, Kolesho, Flores, Enis and dozens of other kids, we should learn to curb our enthusiasm. Now if this golden generation brings golden results from Qatar then I will get excited about kids that play for our U-teams moving onto our men's team. Many dual nationals won't think of using us as bait.

Also, even if this men's team shines in Qatar, I still fear the joker in this game. CSA is the joker. They've shown me they haven't improved in any way and they're the ones to shat on a nation's dream.

Just look at how the CSA has handled these two friendlies. 

Also, In another thread on this forum a poster mentioned that Nick Bontis was asking at the WC draw heads of other federations how many people they had on staff. The poster if I remember correctly thought this was a good sign. Bontis wanted to increase the size of CSA's staff.  I thought it was a terrible sign. One should set up goals and directives and then hire competent people to achieve those goals and directives. Nick Bontis has put the cart in front of the horse. He thinks just by hiring people, he'll get stuff done.

I fear that Herdman's success has people fooled into thinking that the CSA is well-oiled a machine. The only thing well-oiled in Canadian soccer is anything Herdman runs.

[Pottsy3]

2 hours ago, Sal333 said:

Interesting in the sense that Tomori, a CB,  also wore the armband for U20 Canada?

I didn't mean it as some sort of insane expectation or that he's resoundingly committed to the program.

 

I interpret it in two possible ways:

- Either he clearly showed that he was the most talented player in camp. Ability often seems to correlate to captaincy.

OR

- He was a leader amongst the boys, a quality that is pretty damn important for a CB. 

[Sal333]

1 minute ago, Pottsy3 said:

I didn't mean it as some sort of insane expectation or that he's resoundingly committed to the program.

 

I interpret it in two possible ways:

- Either he clearly showed that he was the most talented player in camp. Ability often seems to correlate to captaincy.

OR

- He was a leader amongst the boys, a quality that is pretty damn important for a CB. 

No, no, I understood how you meant it. No problems there. I just decided to use your post to vent some of the frustration I'm having with CSA.

[Pottsy3]

2 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

No, no, I understood how you meant it. No problems there. I just decided to use your post to vent some of the frustration I'm having with CSA.

Meh, in the cases of Tomori and Begovic the CSA did their job. Hindsight is 20/20 in regards to whether they could've brought into the senior side sooner.  They observed the programs and decided it wasn't for them. Heck, Tomori saw the upwards potential of the program when they took down England in the U20s and still didn't want to stay around.

Otherwise, I feel ya.

[Sal333]

Just now, Pottsy3 said:

Meh, in the cases of Tomori and Begovic the CSA did their job. Hindsight is 20/20 in regards to whether they could've brought into the senior side sooner.  They observed the programs and decided it wasn't for them. Heck, Tomori saw the upwards potential of the program when they took down England in the U20s and still didn't want to stay around.

Otherwise, I feel ya.

Go to the CSA web site and see how fucking disorganized they are. Until a few days ago their page on the U20 was  almost a decade old. I went this morning and they managed to post the coach and the assistant coaches. The picture of the U20 team is the one with Dunn and Busti. There isn't any info on the present team. It may not be a big thing for you but it spells incompetency to me and I'll give an example of what I mean.

Last year My son's boss left and went to work for another company. He called my son to come work for him (because he knew he was a good worker). My son went for the interview. They promised to train him (it was in a completely different field) and they offered him almost double what he was earning. After the interview he came to talk to me. I told him that's great news. He said he wasn't going to take the job. I asked why. He said the head office looked run down and it gave him bad vibes. I thought of the free training and the doubling of salary and thought he was making a mistake.

Four months later his old boss returned to work with my son. Told him the company went belly up.

Now that story makes my point even if the company didn't go belly up. My son was influenced by the shoddy head office. Likewise many dual nationals will be influenced by the overwhelming incompetency on display at the CSA.

[Stryker911]

Where is the CSA head office and who do they actually answer to?

Also it would be nice if Nef and Galindo asked Bontis some hard questions next time he was on their podcast. 

[Pottsy3]

2 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Go to the CSA web site and see how fucking disorganized they are. Until a few days ago their page on the U20 was  almost a decade old. I went this morning and they managed to post the coach and the assistant coaches. The picture of the U20 team is the one with Dunn and Busti. There isn't any info on the present team. It may not be a big thing for you but it spells incompetency to me and I'll give an example of what I mean.

Last year My son's boss left and went to work for another company. He called my son to come work for him (because he knew he was a good worker). My son went for the interview. They promised to train him (it was in a completely different field) and they offered him almost double what he was earning. After the interview he came to talk to me. I told him that's great news. He said he wasn't going to take the job. I asked why. He said the head office looked run down and it gave him bad vibes. I thought of the free training and the doubling of salary and thought he was making a mistake.

Four months later his old boss returned to work with my son. Told him the company went belly up.

Now that story makes my point even if the company didn't go belly up. My son was influenced by the shoddy head office. Likewise many dual nationals will be influenced by the overwhelming incompetency on display at the CSA.

Idk if it was meant as hyperbole, but that camp was four years ago and was our most recent U20 camp thanks to this whole pandemic. 
 

Do I think the CSA should be doing more to advertise their youth programs? Absolutely. 
 

Should the CSA be hosting more youth camps? Obviously, we’ve been begging for years.

 

However, I do think it’s a bit dramatic to suggest CSA turmoil due to a website that was updated a week too late. The program is still in its best position to succeed moving forward that it’s ever been in. 
 

I’m glad your son made a wise decision, but in Canada Soccer’s case I think most of the outward representation of our program as of late has been overwhelmingly positive.  We have had years of unstreamed coverage, or shotty opposition streams even at the senior level. But considering the exposure to mainstream media as of late, I’m not concerned about the CSA’s public image right now. Not everything is darkness.

 

 

[Vasi]

52 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

You used the word "shat". For players this age I'd like to use the phrase "temper our expectations". After Tomori, Kolesho, Flores, Enis and dozens of other kids, we should learn to curb our enthusiasm. Now if this golden generation brings golden results from Qatar then I will get excited about kids that play for our U-teams moving onto our men's team. Many dual nationals won't think of using us as bait.

Also, even if this men's team shines in Qatar, I still fear the joker in this game. CSA is the joker. They've shown me they haven't improved in any way and they're the ones to shat on a nation's dream.

Just look at how the CSA has handled these two friendlies. 

Also, In another thread on this forum a poster mentioned that Nick Bontis was asking at the WC draw heads of other federations how many people they had on staff. The poster if I remember correctly thought this was a good sign. Bontis wanted to increase the size of CSA's staff.  I thought it was a terrible sign. One should set up goals and directives and then hire competent people to achieve those goals and directives. Nick Bontis has put the cart in front of the horse. He thinks just by hiring people, he'll get stuff done.

I fear that Herdman's success has people fooled into thinking that the CSA is well-oiled a machine. The only thing well-oiled in Canadian soccer is anything Herdman runs.

Lol...my comment was intended to be a joke. 

 

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, Vasi said:

Lol...my comment was intended to be a joke. 

 

So was my original comment.

[lamptern]

To me, that outdated CSA webpage representing an attitude/ work ethic.

It could be just a lazy/incompetent website maintaince employee. However, a sucess management team should not let this happen. Although they are not in a show business (or maybe they are), It's about the appearance of Canada soccer. Attitude matters.

Edited April 23, 2022 by lamptern

[Sal333]

7 hours ago, lamptern said:

To me, that outdated CSA webpage representing an attitude/ work ethic.

It could be just a lazy/incompetent website maintaince employee. However, a sucess management team should not let this happen. Although they are not in a show business (or maybe they are), It's about the appearance of Canada soccer. Attitude matters.

I think they have no one taking care of it. Last I looked they still haven't entered Ike Ugbo into the men's senior team.

That's why I laughed when someone posted the tidbit that Nick Bontis was asking other federation heads the size of their staff. That shows me this guy is a bullshitter. He's exactly what some posters were accusing Herdman of being. All talk and no action.

If Bontis was serious he would not need to ask the size of other federation's staff. You identify goals and directives and then you assign the duties. If you don't have enough people you hire.  How long is this guy at his job? He doesn't realize CSA needs someone in charge of communications? He has never taken a look at that CSA web site? Okay the budget was down to nothing for the last 2-3 years. He had that excuse. But 2021 has been successful both on the pitch and in the coffers. Where has that money gone? We're heading into the fifth month of 2022 and that website still looks like it is being run by an octogenarian with Alzheimer.

On this site and another site, I've heard of posters ordering merchandise from CSA's store and having to wait months before receiving anything. When asked about that Bontis passed the buck onto the supplier. Bullshit, Nick! You're in charge. The buck stops with you. Nick Bontis strikes me as the complete opposite of John Herdman. Herdman gets shit done. Bontis just runs his mouth.

[PendezLeBurke]

Agreed. It is neither expensive nor time consuming to maintain a basic, up-to-date website. So it reflects very poorly on an organization that can't even do that much effectively. I'm a fairly new Canada soccer follower so my first visit to the site probably happened in 2020 or 2021; and I've been routinely underwhelmed ever since. The CSA's inability to provide basic roster and game information for the recent U20 games seems to be a symptom of a larger organizational problem of inattention to detail. It's a cop-out to blame budgetary constraints for everything. I don't buy it.

[gigi riva]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:34 AM, Pottsy3 said:

Idk if it was meant as hyperbole, but that camp was four years ago and was our most recent U20 camp thanks to this whole pandemic. 
 

Do I think the CSA should be doing more to advertise their youth programs? Absolutely. 
 

Should the CSA be hosting more youth camps? Obviously, we’ve been begging for years.

 

However, I do think it’s a bit dramatic to suggest CSA turmoil due to a website that was updated a week too late. The program is still in its best position to succeed moving forward that it’s ever been in. 
 

I’m glad your son made a wise decision, but in Canada Soccer’s case I think most of the outward representation of our program as of late has been overwhelmingly positive.  We have had years of unstreamed coverage, or shotty opposition streams even at the senior level. But considering the exposure to mainstream media as of late, I’m not concerned about the CSA’s public image right now. Not everything is darkness.

 

 

Hopefuly with the extra miney the CSA is getting for WC qualification, and with Corporate backing too (Fingers Crossed) We will see some of your suggestions up a bpve come to fruition. 

[An Observer]

9 minutes ago, PendezLeBurke said:

Agreed. It is neither expensive nor time consuming to maintain a basic, up-to-date website. So it reflects very poorly on an organization that can't even do that much effectively. I'm a fairly new Canada soccer follower so my first visit to the site probably happened in 2020 or 2021; and I've been routinely underwhelmed ever since. The CSA's inability to provide basic roster and game information for the recent U20 games seems to be a symptom of a larger organizational problem of inattention to detail. It's a cop-out to blame budgetary constraints for everything. I don't buy it.

I would agree with this.  I run an organisation and we have a kid that keeps our website up to date and that person doesn’t cost a lot (plus they do other things for us as it is not a full-time job unless you are positing daily and substantially). Indeed, my wife is a social media influencer and she pays a person $10 an hour in the Philippines to maintain her presence daily for about 1 or 2 hours a day of work.  Beyond that for my business, it is just a prerequisite of the other senior staff’s job to provide the basic content in a timely manner when there is relevant information to be provided.  If they don’t, it comes back to me and I speak to the relevant senior staff to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Frankly, I would say we have a fairly basic website and kinda crappy social media presence but we are B2B and ours still is much better than CSA’s who has a whole public who is clambering for info on a weekly if not daily basis. That’s certainly not the case for us. 

This is not a money issue. It’s an organisation one and rests clearly on Bontis’s head. It gives me no confidence that he won’t scupper whatever World Cup dividend we get both directly from FIFA and indirectly. Your the head of the organisation and you need to make sure the basics work well. And if you don’t have the skill set to do it, hire a COO who does. And if you don’t have the money for a CEO and a COO, then you need to do it. If you cant, you need to go and that last bit is on the CSA board.  They should be asking questions of the leadership as to why our communications suck so badly and having no money is not an excuse for where they are now (see above). 

[lamptern]

Out source to JJD TV may works better than what it is now.

Enthusiasm counts.

Edited April 24, 2022 by lamptern

[red card]

On 4/23/2022 at 10:12 PM, An Observer said:

I would agree with this.  I run an organisation and we have a kid that keeps our website up to date and that person doesn’t cost a lot (plus they do other things for us as it is not a full-time job unless you are positing daily and substantially). Indeed, my wife is a social media influencer and she pays a person $10 an hour in the Philippines to maintain her presence daily for about 1 or 2 hours a day of work.  Beyond that for my business, it is just a prerequisite of the other senior staff’s job to provide the basic content in a timely manner when there is relevant information to be provided.  If they don’t, it comes back to me and I speak to the relevant senior staff to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Frankly, I would say we have a fairly basic website and kinda crappy social media presence but we are B2B and ours still is much better than CSA’s who has a whole public who is clambering for info on a weekly if not daily basis. That’s certainly not the case for us. 

This is not a money issue. It’s an organisation one and rests clearly on Bontis’s head. It gives me no confidence that he won’t scupper whatever World Cup dividend we get both directly from FIFA and indirectly. Your the head of the organisation and you need to make sure the basics work well. And if you don’t have the skill set to do it, hire a COO who does. And if you don’t have the money for a CEO and a COO, then you need to do it. If you cant, you need to go and that last bit is on the CSA board.  They should be asking questions of the leadership as to why our communications suck so badly and having no money is not an excuse for where they are now (see above). 

In the past year, CSA's General Secretary or basically CSA's COO left to run WC2026 and the Deputy Secretary retired. 

They hired a search firm to find replacements but I haven't seen any announcements yet. 

Bontis is also still playing professor at McMaster. So, the CSA pay isn't good enough and there should be change in the governance rules preventing CSA execs holding external paying jobs.

Though, even the US prez untill recently got no salary. Now, she'll get 125k and she is still working as a youth soccer coach. USSF CEO makes over US$400k. 

In terms of the website, my experience working at a large firm says the guts of the current Canada Soccer site is outdated & crappy and therefore too cumbersome to update. I don't see any videos and audio links send you to a third party site. The one or two people who may be in charge of site updates are probably the most frustrated. 

No improvements will be seen till the site is revamped. It may not be a priority spend as the focus has already moved to social media channels which have more updated tech and drives more engagement.

Edited April 25, 2022 by red card

[Sal333]

8 hours ago, red card said:

It may not be a priority spend as the focus has already moved to social media channels which have more updated tech and drives more engagement.

Social media channel? Oh that's right. Their social media presence was very evident with these two U-20 friendlies against Costa Rica. We were so swamped we couldn't keep up with all their releases.

[scooterlawrence5]

To be clear, the President and Vice President donate their time to the CSA as volunteers and do not receive any compensation.

[red card]

Star article from the weekend highlights the need for "Canadian soccer to stop operating like a non-profit and start thinking of itself along the lines of a successful sports franchise, comparable to the Toronto Maple Leafs".

Brock sports mgmt prof Naraine suggests hiring a general secretary from outside the organization to bring in a fresh perspective, an approach that paid off with coaches John Herdman and Bev Priestman. The prototype, he says, is former Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment CEO Tim Leiweke — not necessarily a soccer expert, but someone with deep business connections who knows what it takes to build a sports and entertainment empire and connect to the community around it.

“Canada Soccer, to unlock its value, needs to (make money) through real estate, through corporate partnership, through betting partners. These are all things that they should be doing that they haven’t done yet.”

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/analysis/2022/04/23/the-golden-age-of-canadian-soccer-could-be-a-gold-mine-in-the-right-hands.html

It does mean fans will need to pay up. You can't complain about CanadaRedWhite membership fees or ticket prices and also complain at the same time about lack of camps, friendlies and an outdated website.

Edited April 25, 2022 by red card