2023 U20 CONCACAF Championship and U23 Olympic Qualification to be merged in a tournament in Summer 2022

[Aird25]

8 hours ago, Footyeh said:

Wouldn't agree that it's the speed of the play, it's really not high in the CPL if we're being honest.. It's more so the type/style of play more than anything.  It's like taking a player from Spain/Portugal/Italy and dropping them in the Scottish league.  It's vastly different than being surrounded by the SA/EU talent in the Caps 1st team that play to his style.  His few 1st team cameo's last year are more telling for me than anything he will show playing for Pacific.  Would put his technical ability up against any other player in the pool but again... if we don't have the players behind to keep and play with the ball, of course players like this will be useless as how would you expect him to impact the game?  Him and Lowell were pressing from the front the entire first half and the few times they got on the ball, there really were no options other than to go backwards.  IMO Luna, Aaronson, Sullivan from the States are all players of similar profile to Habibullah and I'd bet that individually they would all struggle to make an impact playing in our U20 side.

Campagna is very good on the ball from CB, Smith from CDM is fantastic in the build up even under pressure.  Our fullbacks and midfield don't have the technical ability, confidence, composure to play out of trouble and until we develop players who can at this level, we will continue to sit in a defensive bunker for 90 mins with a World Cup/Olympics on the line.  

 

I acknowledged that the speed of play in CPL wasn't particularly high in the post you responded to. In spite of that Habibullah has struggled. I hope you're right, but he just hasn't been the player you're describing for us yet, apart from in pre-season matches against amateur teams. He's probably 3rd choice for us now behind Josh Heard, and Dutch winger Dos Santos (who I've really never been all that impressed with).

I also think a full season with Pacific will be far more telling, and better for his development, than 30 minutes of MLS play closing out 3-0 games with Bair and Baldisimo that are already won or lost.  I don't think Vancouver would have loaned him if they felt otherwise. Oh, and Vancouver's DP Attacking Mid is Scottish and cut his teeth in the SPL before moving to Portugal

 

[hodgkiss]

So far it has been difficult to gauge the talent level because of the opposition. Clearly Cuba is much better than originally anticipated (even though we attacked a lot of this match) and USA are obviously a strong attacking team (in which we defended most of the match), I feel that we might get a better sense of the team and the players in this next match vs St Kitts & Nevis. We should be able to attack at will and run up the tally.

It will be interesting to see how USA does against Cuba... will they unlock Cuba or will this be another close one? Maybe 2-1 USA? 

[Footyeh]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I acknowledged that the speed of play in CPL wasn't particularly high in the post you responded to. In spite of that Habibullah has struggled. I hope you're right, but he just hasn't been the player you're describing for us yet, apart from in pre-season matches against amateur teams. He's probably 3rd choice for us now behind Josh Heard, and Dutch winger Dos Santos (who I've really never been all that impressed with).

I also think a full season with Pacific will be far more telling, and better for his development, than 30 minutes of MLS play closing out 3-0 games with Bair and Baldisimo that are already won or lost.  I don't think Vancouver would have loaned him if they felt otherwise. Oh, and Vancouver's DP Attacking Mid is Scottish and cut his teeth in the SPL before moving to Portugal

 

I think you just identified the problem with a lot of CPL teams in general, I'm sorry but players like Josh Heard and Dos Santos have no business being pushed.  Like the US has been doing for many years now, the emphasis has to be on the best YOUNG talent (16-21) and how the league can help them develop into the types of players we need for OUR national team moving forward and a league that looks like the Scottish 1st division doesn't advance our country forward one bit.  Of course we want a competitive league and you need older players but those players have to advance the quality of the league and the key demographic of players the league is built for.  York does it the best.  Just my opinion as an older player and someone who used to be involved in youth national setups, I haven't seen any progression in 15 years with the CSA.  

If you ask around the club you'll know that the current manager has an issue with him going back to the academy, last year the club wouldn't even let him go.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Footyeh

[VinceA]

35 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

I think you just identified the problem with a lot of CPL teams in general, I'm sorry but players like Josh Heard and Dos Santos have no business being pushed.  Like the US has been doing for many years now, the emphasis has to be on the best YOUNG talent (16-21) and how the league can help them develop into the types of players we need for OUR national team moving forward and a league that looks like the Scottish 1st division doesn't advance our country forward one bit.  Of course we want a competitive league and you need older players but those players have to advance the quality of the league and the key demographic of players the league is built for.  York does it the best.  Just my opinion as an older player and someone who used to be involved in youth national setups, I haven't seen any progression in 15 years with the CSA.  

And no, if you ask around the you'll know that the current manager has an issue with him going back to the academy, last year the club wouldn't even let him go.

While the CPL does help with the development of our young players, coaches have mandates to win, particularly with a defending champion like Pacific. They'll use the players they believe can do that. If Habibullah isn't showing that he's a starter (like Assi is showing with Cavalry) then that's on him. 

Habibullah has some hype behind him but a number of soccer people have pointed out he's currently a one trick pony and needs to add more to his game otherwise he'll plateau very soon.

[RS]

12 hours ago, Shway said:

In typical Canadian soccer journo fashion, he deleted his comment because he didn’t want to mess up any future opportunities…

He's an actor, but ok

[RS]

48 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Like the US has been doing for many years now, the emphasis has to be on the best YOUNG talent (16-21) and how the league can help them develop into the types of players we need for OUR national team moving forward

Which US league is doing this more than the CPL?

[Kent]

So who else here is dreaming for a USA loss to Cuba, and us smashing Saint Kitts to overturn our goal difference against USA, so that we finish 2nd and USA finishes 3rd in the group and goes over to Mexico's side of the bracket?

[hodgkiss]

17 minutes ago, Kent said:

So who else here is dreaming for a USA loss to Cuba, and us smashing Saint Kitts to overturn our goal difference against USA, so that we finish 2nd and USA finishes 3rd in the group and goes over to Mexico's side of the bracket?

Was just thinking about that a little while ago - manifesting...

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Footyeh said:

I think you just identified the problem with a lot of CPL teams in general, I'm sorry but players like Josh Heard and Dos Santos have no business being pushed.  Like the US has been doing for many years now, the emphasis has to be on the best YOUNG talent (16-21) and how the league can help them develop into the types of players we need for OUR national team moving forward and a league that looks like the Scottish 1st division doesn't advance our country forward one bit.  Of course we want a competitive league and you need older players but those players have to advance the quality of the league and the key demographic of players the league is built for.  York does it the best.  Just my opinion as an older player and someone who used to be involved in youth national setups, I haven't seen any progression in 15 years with the CSA.  

If you ask around the club you'll know that the current manager has an issue with him going back to the academy, last year the club wouldn't even let him go.

I disagree that what we need to progress as a nation is to turn our D1 League into a youth league, and I also disagree that it would benefit players like Habibullah. Pacific were the shining example of playing youth in the first few years. This was the Whitecaps crop before Habibullah, and several of them looked much better for us than he's looked so far this season. Those players aged out and then went to other Canadian teams after winning us a championship. I'd be surprised if any of them ever get to play for Canada again but many played for our youth teams and were highly touted. Does that mean they served their purpose in this league, or should youth players now have to prove they're better than the crop before them?

Gianni Dos Santos is an international for a nation ranked where we were just last season, and Josh Heard has 130 professional games. Habibullah is still struggling to adapt to professional competition and he could learn from both those players, as well as others like Marco Bustos, and Alejandro Diaz. He's not third choice because the players ahead of him are being pushed. They've just been better than him. His ceiling may be above CPL, unlike some of the older players in the league, but he needs to prove that and learn the game at this level. To do that he needs game time against mature players and not just other kids in youth setups.

[Footyeh]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Which US league is doing this more than the CPL?

MLS, USL, MLS Next Pro... take your pick and look up the data on how many players they have in those ages actually playing

[RS]

Just now, Footyeh said:

MLS, USL, MLS Next Pro... take your pick and look up the data on how many players they have in those ages actually playing

Many MLS teams barely play Americans, much less young Americans. There are exceptions, of course, and the sheer number of teams works in the US' favour in that regard.

The other two leagues are comparable to CPL skill-wise and don't have a minutes requirement for U21 players.

[Footyeh]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

Many MLS teams barely play Americans, much less young Americans. There are exceptions, of course, and the sheer number of teams works in the US' favour in that regard.

The other two leagues are comparable to CPL skill-wise and don't have a minutes requirement for U21 players.

Without minimum requirements for U21 players they still do more for those players than the CPL, its not even comparable.  I obviously want us to succeed and I'm not against our league but the data is in plain sight for everyone to see.  Search up Kobi Henry, 18 year old from Orange County in the USL Championship, one of the best teams that would handle CPL teams, he was afforded 30 games for them as a 2005 born and now sold to Ligue 1.  That's the example of what we should be doing.  

[RS]

1 minute ago, Footyeh said:

Without minimum requirements for U21 players they still do more for those players than the CPL, its not even comparable.  I obviously want us to succeed and I'm not against our league but the data is in plain sight for everyone to see.  Search up Kobi Henry, 18 year old from Orange County in the USL Championship, one of the best teams that would handle CPL teams, he was afforded 30 games for them as a 2005 born and now sold to Ligue 1.  That's the example of what we should be doing.  

I mean, we're talking about a league with more teams and a much longer history, yet CPL gives tons of youth minutes out as well.

Do it enough and they'll hit paydirt too.

[Shway]

1 hour ago, RS said:

He's an actor, but ok

I know he is. Maybe I worded it wrong. Probably should've said "In a typical Canadian soccer journo fashion way".

Not one Canadian journalist who writes about soccer asks/writes about the tough stuff.

[RS]

Ok.

[Shway]

I know you take that personal....but it is what is it.

[Footyeh]

22 minutes ago, RS said:

I mean, we're talking about a league with more teams and a much longer history, yet CPL gives tons of youth minutes out as well.

Do it enough and they'll hit paydirt too.

What are we defining as Youth though?

[RS]

6 minutes ago, Shway said:

I know you take that personal....but it is what is it.

I don’t care enough to argue your opinion, to be honest. 

You said the dude was a journo and I told you he wasn’t. Then you decided to hit me with an opinion. It is what it is, indeed.

[RS]

1 minute ago, Footyeh said:

What are we defining as Youth though?

Under 21. 

CPL has to build up its reputation more before it attracts the types of teenagers who will get looks from big European leagues, but given that it’s Year 4 (and it’s really Year 2), I’d say it’s on the right track. Even so, the codified youth minutes will force teams to try to unearth gems worthy of playing alongside experienced pros (rather than simply making up the numbers)  

More transfers like the one Cavalry announced today will help.

[Aird25]

48 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Without minimum requirements for U21 players they still do more for those players than the CPL, its not even comparable.  I obviously want us to succeed and I'm not against our league but the data is in plain sight for everyone to see.

Is it actually though? The average age of the CPL is younger than either of the first two divisions in the states, and that includes some second teams like NYRBII with an average age of ~19. You were also specifically talking about a player that was on loan from MLS to CPL in order to get minutes, in a thread with several examples of just that. CPL also has significantly fewer foreigners than either of those US leagues

Edited June 21, 2022 by Aird25

[Unnamed Trialist]

Until the CPL decides on youth academies, to develop their own players from earlier on, we can't be lauding their youth development. 

Probably with a u-17 league, or u-18, the CPL would be making an important step. True, they decided it was not part of their business model. Because they can get youth from the MLS teams and U-Sports rather cheaply. Because they can pick up League One players (where I am not sure about the youth minute rules, are there any?).

How soon until CPL teams set up youth teams to play in the L1s across the country? Is that going to be the solution?

They are dedicating themselves to young pros, and that is great. U-21 minutes. It will help. But they are still not being groomed by these pro clubs. Where in the world do you have a league where NONE of the clubs has a youth programme? And don't cite Sigma because often the Sigma players coming in to Forge are not youth at all. 

So let's not wash it over.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Footyeh]

16 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Is it actually though? The average age of the CPL is younger than either of the first two divisions in the states, and that includes some second teams like NYRBII with an average age of ~19. You were also specifically talking about a player that was on loan from MLS to CPL in order to get minutes, in a thread with several examples of just that. 

Simple check shows that 95 players between 2003/04/05 age groups have at least been on the bench this year in the USL Championship alone.  An independent league, independent teams with no affiliation to the MLS anymore (minus 3) is still looking to develop players for the next level.  The defending Champions trusted an 05 CB, surrounded him with players that would aid in his development and now sold him.  Louisville is a powerhouse in the USL, draws bigger crowds than most, looks to win every weekend and they have an 05 CB they play every game.  Chances are he will be the next one sold.  

[narduch]

Wow Aruba beating El Salvador 1-0 near the end of the 2nd half

[jordan]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Wow Aruba beating El Salvador 1-0 near the end of the 2nd half

Do you have a link to their message board? Looking to compare how their meltdowns compare/differ to ours.

[dyslexic nam]

Damn that field is looking uglier all the time.