Ismael Kenneth Kone

[InglewoodJack]

Anyone know what marseille’s midfield situation looks like next season? Currently they have former French national Jordan Veretout, Kondogbia, Congo international and former Atletico player, Ounahi who we may remember from Morocco’s team we faced in Qatar, and then a few teenagers. They also have Amine Harit, also a Morocco international who sometimes plays CM, sometimes AM. Lot of good players in the mix, they must think Kone is not only better but can be sold on for even more in a few years.

[Ed_S]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Marseille has a great supporters culture. I believe they’re considered to have one of Europe’s big left-wing supporters groups, and they have a kinship with St. Pauli and I believe AEK, whose supporters are relatively politically aligned with them.

Had a hate on Marseille dating way back when they jettisoned Julian de Guzman's career path when he chose to play for Canada at the U20 Concacaf qualifiers. He had to start again from nothing, getting a gig with FC Saarbrucken.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

He could also be taking a measured, intentional approach and trying to take a step that ensures he has playing time.  A step up that is too far at this point might see him sitting on the bench for a while.  

Yeah, Marseille is probably the safest step up the ladder of the 3 clubs, but for me the least exciting. Don't get me wrong, I would be very happy and it's definitely a step up and it's a big club, but with how PSG wins every year he probably won't challenge for the title.

....although I am sure many said the same about David 

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, Obinna said:

Yeah, Marseille is probably the safest step up the ladder of the 3 clubs, but for me the least exciting. Don't get me wrong, I would be very happy and it's definitely a step up and it's a big club, but with how PSG wins every year he probably won't challenge for the title.

....although I am sure many said the same about David 

I hear ya, but I also think he really is more likely to immediately get meaningful minutes at Marseilles.   I don’t think he walks into the starting 11 of a team in a top 3 league whereas that could quickly happen in Ligue 1.   

[Obinna]

The other thing is league level.

I think Kone could play in Serie A and the EPL today. Sure, he'd probably come off the bench at first, but for how long? We know how good he is. @dyslexic nam Would it surprise you to see him grab a starting spot before long?

"Guarenteed" playing time is all well and good, don't get me wrong, but if we want our players at the highest level, we probably should be rooting for a West Ham transfer firstly, then secondly a Roma transfer. 

Edited June 25 by Obinna

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I hear ya, but I also think he really is more likely to immediately get meaningful minutes at Marseilles.   I don’t think he walks into the starting 11 of a team in a top 3 league whereas that could quickly happen in Ligue 1.   

And to add, we always say this kind of thing. I remember saying I wanted Eustaquio to move to Braga, as playing time would come easier. As it were, he ended up joining Porto, and yes he started off as a bench player, but it really wasn't long until he grabbed a starting role. Now looking back, I am glad he took the Porto move. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

The other thing is league level.

I think Kone could play in Serie A and the EPL today. Sure, he'd probably come off the bench at first, but for how long? We know how good he is. @dyslexic nam Would it surprise you to see him grab a starting spot before long?

"Guarenteed" playing time is all well and good, don't get me wrong, but if we want our players at the highest level, we probably should be rooting for a West Ham transfer firstly, then secondly a Roma transfer. 

For sure.  And going to the biggest leagues could pay off pretty quickly.   I am just cautious about him being a bit-part player for a couple of years in a big league at a pretty key time in his growth and development when he could be a mainstay in a slightly lower one.  

[Obinna]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

For sure.  And going to the biggest leagues could pay off pretty quickly.   I am just cautious about him being a bit-part player for a couple of years in a big league at a pretty key time in his growth and development when he could be a mainstay in a slightly lower one.  

No doubt. It'll always be a debatable thing. He'll be successful regardless which path he takes, I think. He's that good. 

One pro in the OM column could be the future sale. With OM, it feels he could move on quickly, whereas with West Ham (and to a lesser extent Roma), it could be harder to move up from there, since it's already pretty high up the ladder. 

I went back through the last 3 seasons and OM are definitely spending more on bring transfers in than they are making on sales:

 

Was too lazy/busy to go back any further....but based on the past 3 seasons I don't like the trend if I am hoping for a transfer out. 

[InglewoodJack]

PSG is losing Mbappe this year and while they will replace him and then some, France is due for a new champion, it’s been 4 years. Marseille lost by 5 points a few seasons ago, and PSG won by a single point two seasons ago. Think Kone winning a title at Marseille would be the craziest thing any of our players could accomplish for their club this generation. Obviously another Davies champions league trophy would be massive, but I mean…

[jhoops__]

David already won a L1 title…

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

30 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

For sure.  And going to the biggest leagues could pay off pretty quickly.   I am just cautious about him being a bit-part player for a couple of years in a big league at a pretty key time in his growth and development when he could be a mainstay in a slightly lower one.  

If the reports are true and the manager really wants him at Marseilles then that's probably best.

We have new manager at whose played 433 in the past and wants to add quite a few players. With PSR, money seems tight.  Paqueta is gone to us either way probably, Alvarez not sure how healthy he is going to be yet but then have Soucek and Ward-Prowse who are very good even excellent at certain things but in a pacey passing side, they don't quite fit. The strange thing is we have a midfielder supposed to come back on loan, who did overall better in the Championship, objectively, than Kone.  But we will likely need to pay more for Kone than we will get for Downes. There is promising kid from the Academy as well.

The short of  that is that I'm not sure we are able to spend the amount talked about and not have him start at least some.  But also not sure he ready to be thrown in the deep end of the Premier League.

 

Edited June 25 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[VinceA]

23 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The other thing is league level.

I think Kone could play in Serie A and the EPL today. Sure, he'd probably come off the bench at first, but for how long? We know how good he is. @dyslexic nam Would it surprise you to see him grab a starting spot before long?

"Guarenteed" playing time is all well and good, don't get me wrong, but if we want our players at the highest level, we probably should be rooting for a West Ham transfer firstly, then secondly a Roma transfer. 

I think we overrate Kone too much on this board. He's getting better but he was very inconsistent for Watford and only hit his stride towards the end of the season.

Assuming he makes the step up in competition gracefully is risky. We just saw the inconsistent nature of his play against Argentina after a good performance against France.

[InglewoodJack]

8 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

David already won a L1 title…

Marseille, one of the biggest clubs in France have won one title in the last 34 years. Not to take anything away from Lille winning a title, but I think a Marseille title looks similar to napoli’s last year in just the sheer explosion of fan celebration. 
 

(I think Lille’s title with David is the most impressive trophy any of our guys have to date FWIW)

Edited June 25 by InglewoodJack

[El Diego]

16 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I think we overrate Kone too much on this board. He's getting better but he was very inconsistent for Watford and only hit his stride towards the end of the season.

Assuming he makes the step up in competition gracefully is risky. We just saw the inconsistent nature of his play against Argentina after a good performance against France.

I agree, his highs are really high but of the matches I watched of Watford this season, there were many long stretches where he looked out of place in a bad way. I am worried about a move up in quality, he really needs to lock in his focus and defensive awareness.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I agree, his highs are really high but of the matches I watched of Watford this season, there were many long stretches where he looked out of place in a bad way. I am worried about a move up in quality, he really needs to lock in his focus and defensive awareness.

I have been critical of him as well at Watford. 

But I would say looking out of place there comes partially from them not knowing what they were doing and what they were doing with him.

A (not multiple) manager with a clear plan for him will solve a numbers of problems.

[El Diego]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I have been critical of him as well at Watford. 

But I would say looking out of place there comes partially from them not knowing what they were doing and what they were doing with him.

A (not multiple) manager with a clear plan for him will solve a numbers of problems.

I've heard this sentiment, and I may buy that it is responsible for some of his mistakes but not sure about all of them. I hope you're right.

[InglewoodJack]

Watford plays as 11 guys looking to shoot highlight reel footage for their agents to pass around to bigger clubs. No vibe on that team, no cohesion, no one who actually wanted to be there and 4 coaches in 18 months. Look at both how he played for Watford when he decided to take over games and look at how he plays with Canada, a far more cohesive unit with a common goal.

Half the time, Kone had this rigid role with no rope to make mistakes on before his coach yanks him and sticks him to the bench. He can get better, sure, but it’s the natural talent and ability he has that get people excited, just like Bombito. I don’t think he’s overrated, if anything, he’s a bit underrated with the way many people will look at his stat sheet or club ranking to determine his value. 

[Obinna]

32 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I think we overrate Kone too much on this board. He's getting better but he was very inconsistent for Watford and only hit his stride towards the end of the season.

Assuming he makes the step up in competition gracefully is risky. We just saw the inconsistent nature of his play against Argentina after a good performance against France.

The flipside to this is that he has a gigantic ceiling. That's what myself and others are rating him on. Yes he's inconsistent and that led to him being in-and-out of the Watford line up. Yet, he's still being linked with 3 big clubs. 

I get what you're saying, but I kind of think you want him to go to the highest level possible and test himself. If he doesn't make the step up than so be it, he can drop down a level. He could go to Ligue 1 and never get a chance in the EPL. Or, he could take the EPL chance (assuming it's on offer) and battle it out. 

By the way, I don't think he was bad against Argentina. He was flawless against France, but against Argentina there was good and bad. Most importanly though, you could tell that technically and athletically he's a tier 1 player in the making. I rate him on that potential rather than looking too harshly at his mistakes.

Give it a few years and I will expect those mistakes to be cut out of his game, or else I would be judging him much harder.

[Cheeta]

He has 2 professional years under his belt.  Literally.  One in MLS, one at ramshackle Watford.  And now he's a starter in Copa America.  

Wait until he lands in a truly professional environment.  

[Macksam]

Probably been the worst guy on the pitch so far, so many giveaways...

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Macksam said:

Probably been the worst guy on the pitch so far, so many giveaways...

With two poor games in a row I think he loses the starting spot now game.  I still think Choiniere has a role to play and his energy could be useful as a 69 minute starter, but maybe Marsch has only seen 2024 Choiniere and not the 2023 version.   Either way I don’t see Kone getting a 3rd start in a row.  

[Kadenge]

Perhaps the transfer stuff is getting to Kone. Marsch has elected to sub in Oso vs Chioniere though and it's unlikely he will drop Kone for a game vs Chile where we need a result. 

[Floortom]

Two absolute stinkers. I’m guessing he’s a locked in starter for now but I like that Marsch was quick to sub him out.

[kingvikingstad]

At some point in the Argentina game, he totally lost his head, and hasnt recovered. He looks like he has negative confidence. He's overthinking everything and nothing is coming natural

[dyslexic nam]

8 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Perhaps the transfer stuff is getting to Kone. Marsch has elected to sub in Oso vs Chioniere though and it's unlikely he will drop Kone for a game vs Chile where we need a result. 

I just can't see him starting the next one after the last two games.  Unless Marsch really feels that the other two are "last resort" options at this point, I am not sure how Kone gets another start. 

I also think he is likely undermining his transfer potential with these games.  I know big teams don't get overly swayed by small samples but this is highlighting his mercurial play and it would be making me cautious if I was a potential bidder.