Ismael Kenneth Kone

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Another way to look at this is that Watford is a yo-yo club, they're often in the premier league which means that they have some of the best resources in the championship, likely some of the best facilities, staff, etc. Sure, maybe playing a team like Huddersfield is lesser competition than LAFC or NYC, but in all cases, you're training day in day out with a team who wants to, and can reach the premier league, have the resources to do so, and who has a track record of developing future stars, and getting them to teams where they can flourish.

Watford is around the ~same place now as Nottingham Forest was last year with Laryea. Both are making a mad dash to promotion, Laryea couldn't even get on the pitch, and Kone is starting. It takes quite the player to be able to start week in week out while your team is battling for promotion.

Not sure why you think that responds in any way to what I wrote? The points I made were that the relative merits of MLS and the Championship don't really matter that much if the player is clearly still progressing in terms of his on field ability, and that it was interesting that being on the CF Montreal U-23 team that had no league to play in at the time rather than being loaned out to CanPL didn't seem to hinder his emergence as a CMNT starter.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Aird25]

38 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not sure why you think that responds in any way to what I wrote? The points I made were that the relative merits of MLS and the Championship don't really matter that much if the player is clearly still progressing in terms of his on field ability, and that it was interesting that being on the CF Montreal U-23 team that had no league to play in at the time rather than being loaned out to CanPL didn't seem to hinder his emergence as a CMNT starter.

I don't follow Montreal closely, but I thought his identification and assent was pretty quick so I don't know when he would've gone on loan to CPL.  I thought it went PLSQ - Belgium - Montreal - Bologna - Montreal - Watford in pretty quick succession. I think he was training with the first team while mostly competing with the U23s in PLSQ to end 2021, but there were only a couple of months remaining in the season after being chased back to Canada by Covid

Edited March 30, 2023 by Aird25
Spelling

[narduch]

Did he actually play PLSQ with CF Montréal U23?

I thought he got hurt

[Aird25]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

Did he actually play PLSQ with CF Montréal U23?

I thought he got hurt

I don't really know tbh. I think most of my understanding came from this thread or AGR's article, but I don't think he had a season with Montreal where it would have realistically been expected that he'd go to CPL to further develop like some other players from Montreal have. I could be totally wrong about that though 

https://destroyandprogress.substack.com/p/who-is-ismael-kone-exploring-more?s=r

[El Hombre]

50 minutes ago, narduch said:

Did he actually play PLSQ with CF Montréal U23?

I thought he got hurt

He trained with them but he didn't actually sign a contract with CF Montreal until August 2021.  I don't think he would be allowed to be sent on loan by a team that doesn't have a contract with him.  He then injured his knee.

Not to poke holes in my favourite poster's narrative that CanPL is not good for developing players, but he was never in a position to actually get a loan there.  If, perhaps, there was a CanPL team in Quebec, he may have been identified earlier than he was rather than playing for CS St. Laurent.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not sure why you think that responds in any way to what I wrote? The points I made were that the relative merits of MLS and the Championship don't really matter that much if the player is clearly still progressing in terms of his on field ability, and that it was interesting that being on the CF Montreal U-23 team that had no league to play in at the time rather than being loaned out to CanPL didn't seem to hinder his emergence as a CMNT starter.

Not sure where the confusion is here- I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm saying there's value in playing for TFC because you get to train with guys like Insigne and Bernadeschi- just like playing for Watford, regardless of how you feel about the Championship vs. MLS level, because they effectively have premier league facilities and train with staff that has a track record of getting their players over to some very elite teams down the road. It's not only about him playing more difficult competition in the championship- which I think he is- but the fact that he's in a very good environment to grow.

[Ally McCoist]

Ok back on track:  

He made CONCACAF's best XI for the window.

[dyslexic nam]

Totally deserved.   Love the Oso shout out too. 
 

And of course Larin deserves it.  

[Gian-Luca]

Didn't see this posted yet:

https://www.thecanadianpressnews.ca/sports/young-canadian-midfielder-ismael-kone-turns-heads-with-club-and-country/article_5cb8184d-0131-57e8-a716-d87b89cf1db7.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

[shorty]

Independent of the good comments here on league strength, quality of opposition, club resources, etc. I think a key force in the development or stagnation of a player is the faith of a coach with a clear plan. Witness those who have struggled without the (complete) faith of the manager (Laryea at NFFC, JMR at TFC, Larin at Brugge) vs those who have succeeded in making progress from whatever stage they were at in their development (Kone under Nancy at CFM and now Watford, AJ at CFM and now Celtic, Larin at RV). Even Carl Robinson who I don’t think is a great manager overall had a clear plan for Phonzie and brought him along wisely, imo. You could argue that Phonzie is a generational talent who would have succeeded regardless but can you not imagine a different manager stapling to the bench because he’s too young, or feeding his head too much and throwing him to the wolves early (bad pun). 

[Cicero]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:57 AM, InglewoodJack said:

Watford is around the ~same place now as Nottingham Forest was last year with Laryea. Both are making a mad dash to promotion, Laryea couldn't even get on the pitch, and Kone is starting. It takes quite the player to be able to start week in week out while your team is battling for promotion.

I think it's important not to underestimate the effect of going to the right situation with a manager who wants you there. Richie Laryea was absolutely good enough to play for Nottingham, I have zero doubt about that, but Cooper wasn't interested. Kone wasn't really even a star in MLS last year. He was a prospect who emerged somewhat by surprise, and has a lot of upside. He was a solid player, but only started 18 games and played just under 1600 minutes, and likely would not have gotten the chance on many other MLS teams with more depth at MF. Laryea was already established as a top five wide back in MLS. Life ain't always fair.

I suspect people overestimate the overall quality of the Championship. But the bench depth is better, particularly at the top end of the league.  

[Bdog]

On 3/30/2023 at 5:10 PM, Ally McCoist said:

Ok back on track:  

He made CONCACAF's best XI for the window.

Mexico are a minnow now.

[narduch]

Starting v Luton 

[narduch]

Starting v  Huddersfield. 

Its on DAZN 

[dyslexic nam]

He has been really involved in their attacking play.  

[El Hombre]

He looked like the veteran in that midfield.  He was making smart passes, patient, wasn't trying to force anything.

[sebdeserio]

Why'd he get pulled early?

[narduch]

They lose 3-2.

Probably shouldn't have sacked their manager 

[Joe1973]

They have another game Monday...they made 4 subs from what it looks like early in second half. Probably personnel management taken into account as well. 

[cronaldo7]

I watched the match. Kone is so slick with the ball, it’s like he’s gliding around. 
 

Had a couple careless giveaways but definitely looks the part of a Championship-quality player at the young age of 20. 
 

 

[costarg]

22 hours ago, Joe1973 said:

They have another game Monday...they made 4 subs from what it looks like early in second half. Probably personnel management taken into account as well. 

They took him off for a striker at the 56th, immediately following Huddersfield's go ahead 2nd goal, so they might'be been  looking for more offence I guess.

[Kadenge]

The play by play commentator was saying that on paper Watford have one of the strongest sides in the Championship but have not played to their potential. The team as a whole were sloppy vs Huddersfield who are a big team and played a very physical game. Kone got pushed off the ball a few times. Got a hockey assist on Watford's 1st goal. Early in the game he had a wicked shot from outside the box that just sailed over the crossbar. He will get stronger and his ability to strike the ball with power from long range is something we really need from our midfield

[Joe1973]

He's not starting today...curious to see if he gets in second half with team winning 2-0

[toontownman]

53 minutes ago, Joe1973 said:

He's not starting today...curious to see if he gets in second half with team winning 2-0

Remained on the bench. Did he pick up a knock? They desperately needed some calm in midfield. They have been dreadful this second half. Truly dreadful. They drop the lead and probably should have lost.

Edited April 10, 2023 by toontownman

[Joe1973]

36 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Remained on the bench. Did he pick up a knock? They desperately needed some calm in midfield. They have been dreadful this second half. Truly dreadful. They drop the lead and probably should have lost.

Curious to see what happens next game. Coach during pre-match interview was very adamant on how he didn't like the lack of "fight" by some of the Watford players in last game. Didn't see that game but based on comments above, if he was pushed off ball a few times, he definitely might have been 1 of the players who the coach was referring to.