Ismael Kenneth Kone

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Did anyone ever figure out what happens to the club compensation money that each team is supposed to get for their players appearing at the WC.  I guess MLS gets it but how does Montreal get their share of it.

I started a thread on it in the WC section. 

It's 10,000 US per player and club, whether you play or not. For the Canadians it was a minimum 2 weeks I think, because we started a few days after the opening match. The minimum regardless was 10 days, so 100,000 per player. For us, it would have been 140,000 player/club.

The club applies for it through the FIFA website, directly. You have to request it.

Any club where the player had been registered to play in the previous 2 years, loan or not, can also apply, and then FIFA has a formula of dividing those 2 years into thirds. Montreal would have made 140,000 x 6 then, minus the proportional part of Johnston having been at Nashville, whatever it would be.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think being at Watford allows him to play in the premier league if they get promoted, or if another team spots him and chooses to buy him, and as a last option, he can always go to Udinese. I think his goal has always been to make it to the premier league. If there’s an opportunity for him to play in the premier league next year, I think he takes it.

I really did not remember the connections, but reading about it now, I realise that they also owned Granada, or a share. But I think they pulled out, they used to have some interesting players on loan there.

I also see at one point when Watford was in EPL, the relationship was to favour them over Udinense, so it could go both ways. It is not an automatic favouring of Udinense over Watford if they are both in top flight, which I find interesting and is probably better for the player.

If he does not play at the WC and does not do well, the fee does not hold up like that. Same as Buchanan being cited as being worth 15million when a few weeks ago they were saying he could be worth maybe half that. Just as doing poorly, like for David, has hurt his winter transfer chances--play, and good play, matters. Along with age, young talent is going to have that extra value.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Aird25]

43 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I started a thread on it in the WC section. 

It's 10,000 US per player and club, whether you play or not. For the Canadians it was a minimum 2 weeks I think, because we started a few days after the opening match. The minimum regardless was 10 days, so 100,000 per player. For us, it would have been 140,000 player/club.

The club applies for it through the FIFA website, directly. You have to request it.

Any club where the player had been registered to play in the previous 2 years, loan or not, can also apply, and then FIFA has a formula of dividing those 2 years into thirds. Montreal would have made 140,000 x 6 then, minus the proportional part of Johnston having been at Nashville, whatever it would be.

Do we know if it applies to a player like MacNaughton who was there but not necessarily registered? That would be another reasonable return for Pacific 

[Unnamed Trialist]

25 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Do we know if it applies to a player like MacNaughton who was there but not necessarily registered? That would be another reasonable return for Pacific 

Think it only applies to the 26 on the official roster. 

The CSA will have paid them as well to be there, but not the clubs.

[Cheeta]

What happens if Watford promotes is, to my mind, looking too far ahead.  For now his place in this world is going to be measures over the next hundred something days.    

For Kone, that Watford is expected to promote, and that they're moving into the business side of the Championship season, is what matters isn't it?

He is going to know an intestity in football that he's never know before and would never know in MLS.  It's that simple.

Hundreds of millions of pounds are on the line and sink or swim he's a part of that know.

Wow.  I'm not sure he really knows what he's getting himself into but, wow. 

Good luck, lad.  You're braver than I.   

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, Cheeta said:

What happens if Watford promotes is, to my mind, looking too far ahead.  For now his place in this world is going to be measures over the next hundred something days.    

For Kone, that Watford is expected to promote, and that they're moving into the business side of the Championship season, is what matters isn't it?

He is going to know an intestity in football that he's never know before and would never know in MLS.  It's that simple.

Hundreds of millions of pounds are on the line and sink or swim he's a part of that know.

Wow.  I'm not sure he really knows what he's getting himself into but, wow. 

Good luck, lad.  You're braver than I.   

You wouldn't say he has gotten a taste of pressure and intensity playing at the World Cup?

I realise that in terms of fan pressure and support, home at Watford will be impressive, and away in the Championship will be intense. But he has gotten a taste I would say.

Their stadium is rather small.

Others know him better from Montreal, but he seems emotionally very even keel and did not look nervous in Qatar, wouldn't say. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[InglewoodJack]

Kone was a key part of an MLS team that was 2 points out of the Supporters Shield. FWIW, 2 of CFM's last 3 regular season losses came during games Kone did not feature in. He made an excellent team better. Then, he featured at the World Cup and looked pretty good. I get he's young and doesn't have many seasons under his belt, but we need to pump the brakes on the Kone hasn't been tested agenda. We've long seen the arguments that MLS' best could hang in the Championship, and Kone was one of the best on one of MLS' best. ELO scores, which don't mean all that much, but 538's model has Watford as the 162nd best club in the world, Montreal as the 170th.

If all goes to plan, he should easily be a significant contributor for Watford this season, and being that it's his goal, being that it's what everyone has been saying for the last 10 months, he is a player with Premier League quality, and his goal is to get there- Watford would not have signed him, and he wouldn't have been attracted to Watford's offer if that were not the case.

I know it's natural for us to think our guys aren't meant to reach such levels because so many of them have flamed out, but sometimes we actually do find gems, and we're seeing one of them develop in front of our eyes.

He'll be fine at Watford, and he'll be competing to crack their roster once they make it back to the big boy league next year, which will be made easier by Kone being one of the key factors that took them there. That's that.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You wouldn't say he has gotten a taste of pressure and intensity playing at the World Cup?

I realise that in terms of fan pressure and support, home at Watford will be impressive, and away in the Championship will be intense. But he has gotten a taste I would say.

Others know him better from Montreal, but he seems emotionally very even keel and did not look nervous in Qatar, wouldn't say. 

Lots of bias but Watford fans don't seem that intense, unless you count Elton John.  They finished second when the First Division was actually the first division, during his chairmanship. Also I am sure the Watford-Luton rivalry, like the Oxford United-Swindon, is big, requiring police horses at the station etc. but not known much outside the area.

Vicarage holds 22,000 and I saw a bunch of empty seats when they played Reading in early November. 

They have bought and developed some very good players.  Over £45 million in sales 3 of the last 5 years, including Emmanuel Dennis, Abdoulaye Doucouré and Richarlison. 

Not a bad stepping stone. 

But are mostly know for sacking their managers -  16 in the last 10 years, I believe. 

 

 

[InglewoodJack]

New future teammate for Kone: signed to Udinese with an immediate loan to Watford: 

Another positive sign for Kone: if his fee is a record fee for Montreal, there’s a very good chance that Watford paid more for an older Canadian player than a younger Brazilian midfielder. That says quite a bit about how they value Kone. 

[InglewoodJack]

 

[Strait Red]

Brief interview

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

Watford grab Canadian youngster Kone ahead of promotion rivals
Andrew French watfordobserver.co.uk December 4 2022

Watford are on the verge of completing the signing of Canadian international midfielder Ismael Kone on a four-and-a-half-year deal.

The 20-year-old has just made three appearances for Canada at the World Cup, and the final bits of paperwork of his transfer from CF Montreal are being completed.

He has already undergone a medical, and I understand Watford could officially announce the signing as early as tomorrow.

He will join up with the Watford squad on January 1.

Although the fee is expected to be undisclosed, it has been suggested it will be a new record amount received by CF Montreal, beating the €6m they banked for USA international Djordje Mihailovic who will move to Dutch side AZ Alkmaar on January 1.

He is the third player to leave Montreal in recent months to head to Europe, with fellow Canadian international Alistair Johnson agreeing to join Scottish side Celtic a couple of days ago.

It has been a meteoric rise for Kone, who was playing semi-professional football for CS Saint-Laurent in Montreal as recently as 2020.

In the recent MLS season he made 26 appearances for Montreal, scoring twice and claiming five assists.

He then scored as Montreal beat Orlando in the qualifying round of the MLS play-offs before they went out to New York City in the quarter-finals.

Kone only made his Canada debut in March in a World Cup qualifying game against Costa Rica, and he has since gone on to earn nine caps, scoring his first international goal in Canada’s 2-2 draw in a friendly with Bahrain in November.

He came off the bench in all three of Canada’s World Cup Finals Group F games, getting 32 minutes against Belgium, the whole second half against Croatia and 29 minutes in the match with Morocco.

It’s understood Kone, who was born in the Ivory Coast but moved to Canada at the age of seven, had attracted the attention of both Sheffield United and Norwich, but the Hornets moved swiftly and decisively to land the highly-rated young talent.

[toontownman]

He is going to a solid squad too. Some older heads in central mid to learn from like Gosling and Cleverley but also some younger players like Choudhury and Louza.

Also, IF they stay at Watford past January, Pedro is a stud and Sarr is also immense. They could connect up well.

Watford know how to identify and bring through young talent so I think Kone will be in a good place with Italy on call.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I hadn't realised Mihailovic was so young, just 24. 

The numbers you see on these fees vary, because the buyers don't want to say how much they will pay, and tend to downplay it; and the sellers often overstate what they have gotten (one side wants to look like shrewd buyers, the other, like shrewd sellers).

With Johnston I read 3, 4 or 5 million pounds in different Scottish and British sources. In the end I think one concluded it was 3.5 plus up to 1.5 in bonuses--if the player thrives, plays minutes, is in European play, etc, the seller makes more money. It is also a way to not pay a full fee immediately, the incentives and bonues are de facto installments paid over various fiscal years.

Now all they are saying is that it would be more than the Mihailovic transfer, which that tweet puts at 6 million dollars, about 4.9 million pounds. A record fee. So anything more than 5 million pounds would be a record. 

Still less than what was cited as the possible fee, never paid, last summer.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:43 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

If we don't play well Kone, or Johnston, will be choosing between a crappy offer from mid table Austria or a good Danish team, and preseason in Montreal

Come on, mate.  You got this one wrong, including the fees.  Much more like this up the thread.  

Real scouts don't put near as much focus on three games as you were trying to tell us.

Time to move on.

Edited December 5, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Come on, mate.  You got this one wrong, including the fees.  Much more like this up the thread.  

Real scouts don't put near as much focus on three games as you were trying to tell us.

Time to move on.

So you are saying if he hadn't played a single match at the WC, the fee would have been the same? 

Are you also arguing that David's value hasn't taken a hit at all because of his poor World Cup? 

Scouts don't sign players by the way, clubs do. If you have an inside line because your scouts gave positive reports, that is fine, it may help. If you are totally convinced, however, and the player is discreet to poor on the world stage, you know you are not in a bidding war and you can keep your offer down low. 

If we'd made the round of 16 and gotten knocked out today on penalties, for example, by Japan: you are saying these deals would have been closed over this past weekend and announced today? And that the transfer fees would be the same?

You're naive.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:43 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Folks, if the team plays mediocre or we get no points or even if we get a cheap draw against Morocco, players aren't getting automatic offers from Europe. 

Have a great night, mate.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Have a great night, mate.

I'm going out all night to haggle, be well.

[Floortom]

Watford’s season resumes on the weekend. Will Kone be with them? I assume he can’t play until January but will he be practicing with them in the interim?

[InglewoodJack]

55 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I hadn't realised Mihailovic was so young, just 24. 

The numbers you see on these fees vary, because the buyers don't want to say how much they will pay, and tend to downplay it; and the sellers often overstate what they have gotten (one side wants to look like shrewd buyers, the other, like shrewd sellers).

With Johnston I read 3, 4 or 5 million pounds in different Scottish and British sources. In the end I think one concluded it was 3.5 plus up to 1.5 in bonuses--if the player thrives, plays minutes, is in European play, etc, the seller makes more money. It is also a way to not pay a full fee immediately, the incentives and bonues are de facto installments paid over various fiscal years.

Now all they are saying is that it would be more than the Mihailovic transfer, which that tweet puts at 6 million dollars, about 4.9 million pounds. A record fee. So anything more than 5 million pounds would be a record. 

Still less than what was cited as the possible fee, never paid, last summer.

Transfermarkt is reporting the fee to be between 8-10 million euros for Kone. That's about 6.8M GBP at the low end. More than what people were saying when Norwich or Sheffield were knocking.

 

[TGAA_Star]

If Watford get promoted next season he gets to play in the Premier League regularly and honestly that does wonders for our program especially if that happens 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Floortom said:

Watford’s season resumes on the weekend. Will Kone be with them? I assume he can’t play until January but will he be practicing with them in the interim?

I don’t really know but I would think he would be there well in advance of his eligibility period to train with the team.  And he would have had a break after the MLS post season so he probably doesn’t need to go home for long first.  If I am a young guy with a brand new contract and something to prove, I am probably going there ASAP to start the training and integration.   

[The Pessimist]

There's no guarantee that Kone will get playing time. We've seen this before with Laryea.

Kone plays well when he is given time on the ball but tends to make mistakes when he is pressed. In the Championship he can expect to be pressed a lot. 

[maccaliam]

7 minutes ago, The Pessimist said:

There's no guarantee that Kone will get playing time. We've seen this before with Laryea.

Kone plays well when he is given time on the ball but tends to make mistakes when he is pressed. In the Championship he can expect to be pressed a lot. 

Username checks out. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by maccaliam
Autocorrect tried to ruin my joke.