Ismael Kenneth Kone

[InglewoodJack]

23 hours ago, AvroArrow said:

I feel like I'm missing something here, as I don't see what everyone else does when it comes to Kone.  Yes, he is young and yes, there is potential, but in today's game I saw a player who consistently passed the ball backwards and did not create all that much.  I don't recall being aware of defensive prowess either.  However, he didn't seem to make noticable mistakes either, so I guess that is a positive.

I don't watch Montreal, so maybe there are things there that I don't see at the international level.

You have to watch Montreal to get a full picture. He's quick, he always seems to be in the right places, isn't afraid of taking risks to move the ball up, makes few mistakes given his experience and how quickly he's developped. Remember, he's only played a handful of games for Canada, and really was only considered to be more than a depth piece as of like, the Qatar game.

[baulderdash77]

The thing with Kone is that he’s 20 and coming up fast.  This was his first full season as a professional.

 In that time he took a starting spot (unexpected) in Montreal.  He played in 32 games and over 2,000 minutes this season.

Then he jumped into a World Cup team, mostly after they qualified, and will play 3 games in the World Cup and 9 appearances total this year.  He’s definitely not looked out of place and has probably been out 2nd best central midfielder recently.

I think he’s basically going to be a permanent fixture at CM along with Eustaquio for the next 4 years for Canada.

[Kadenge]

I agree with the decision to not start Kone in the first 2 games, in order to minimize the pressure on a player in his first pro season, but now is the right time to start him v Morrocco. He's had some quality mins vs Belgium & Croatia under the WC spotlight already. He's at his best when he is in a 3 man mid, where he can be creative and have some freedom to push forward like he had with Montreal.

[jhoops__]

Hope he gets more freedom advancing forward v Morocco instead of being put in a defensive role lately …

[The Beaver 2.0]

45 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I agree with the decision to not start Kone in the first 2 games, in order to minimize the pressure on a player in his first pro season, but now is the right time to start him v Morrocco. He's had some quality mins vs Belgium & Croatia under the WC spotlight already. He's at his best when he is in a 3 man mid, where he can be creative and have some freedom to push forward like he had with Montreal.

Maybe Oso and Kone with Tajon and Davies on the flanks, Fraser sitting in behind them, Cavalini up top? Same back three, or maybe play Miller and Vittoria in the middle, Johnston and Adegkube on the flanks? 

[TGAA_Star]

Kone should stay in MLS a bit longer with CF Montreal and then if he continues to get better as a player and matures, then I can definitely see him in a European club side but not right now.

[jonovision]

On 11/29/2022 at 7:52 AM, TGAA_Star said:

Kone should stay in MLS a bit longer with CF Montreal and then if he continues to get better as a player and matures, then I can definitely see him in a European club side but not right now.

If he is good enough to move up and continue getting minutes, he should. A player will typically learn more and improve faster in an environment where the level of coaching, competition, and teammates is higher. In hockey there is this nonsense about "paying your dues" in the AHL, but if a player is good enough to earn minutes in the NHL that's where they should be.

Especially when production peaks are much younger than most would imagine (around 24-25 for most NHLers, and not that far off in soccer).

Edited December 1, 2022 by jonovision

[canuckgbp]

 

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, canuckgbp said:

 

I think the Dutch or French first divisions would be the best combo of high level competition and playing time.  Not sure he would get a lot of playing time on a Serie A team or a Premier League team in the short term - and I would rather him in play in a first division (in a second tier country) rather than the Championship. 

[jonovision]

44 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think the Dutch or French first divisions would be the best combo of high level competition and playing time.  Not sure he would get a lot of playing time on a Serie A team or a Premier League team in the short term - and I would rather him in play in a first division (in a second tier country) rather than the Championship. 

Pretty big difference between the two. A move to any team other than Feyenoord, Ajax, PSV or Alkmaar in NL would be a disappointment, IMO.

[Floortom]

3 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Pretty big difference between the two. A move to any team other than Feyenoord, Ajax, PSV or Alkmaar in NL would be a disappointment, IMO.

No other Dutch teams could afford his transfer fee.

 

[gkhs]

He has one fundamental area that needs massive improvement, he is VERY contact averse. FBRef has him as having one (1!) successful tackle in the last year; FotMob counts 7. This is extreme, and I'm a little dubious about those precise stats, but it does match the eye test; in my opinion, he has a tendency to play very upright and avoid physicality.

I worry that this tendency would ultimately have him nailed to the bench in a place like England.

Additionally, I feel like the Championship is a lower level than I'd like to seem him at - though that is likely me overrating him somewhat.

Finally, if he could string together matches like the Orlando playoff match, he looks like a potential world beater, and the kind of values we're hearing now are a drop-in-the-bucket by the summer transfer window.

[InglewoodJack]

18 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Pretty big difference between the two. A move to any team other than Feyenoord, Ajax, PSV or Alkmaar in NL would be a disappointment, IMO.

The Kone-Brym 2 man game at Rotterdam next season is going to be so smooth

[sebdeserio]

Feels like he never lost the ball today. Played the ball much faster than everyone else, opening up the game and creating a lot of counters. Still a bit conservative going forwards but better than against Belgium and may have been a tactical choice. 

[toontownman]

The biggest plus of the tournament for us, imo. 

Excited to see him develop. Wherever he ends up he needs playing time.

[costarg]

23 hours ago, gkhs said:

He has one fundamental area that needs massive improvement, he is VERY contact averse. FBRef has him as having one (1!) successful tackle in the last year; FotMob counts 7. This is extreme, and I'm a little dubious about those precise stats, but it does match the eye test; in my opinion, he has a tendency to play very upright and avoid physicality.

I worry that this tendency would ultimately have him nailed to the bench in a place like England.

Additionally, I feel like the Championship is a lower level than I'd like to seem him at - though that is likely me overrating him somewhat.

Finally, if he could string together matches like the Orlando playoff match, he looks like a potential world beater, and the kind of values we're hearing now are a drop-in-the-bucket by the summer transfer window.

Wow, that's strange, I'm sure i've seen him crunch a few guys pretty bad this year and think "he's gotta control that".  I specifically recall being impressed how he'd run into pretty big guys and come out on top and me thinking the kid has big bones made for the midfield.

[Obinna]

27 minutes ago, costarg said:

Wow, that's strange, I'm sure i've seen him crunch a few guys pretty bad this year and think "he's gotta control that".  I specifically recall being impressed how he'd run into pretty big guys and come out on top and me thinking the kid has big bones made for the midfield.

Put me in as being between you and gkhs. I never considered him to be adverse to getting dirty, nor have I thought he needed to dial it back. I watched plenty of Montreal games, but definitely not all, so take that for what it's worth!

[gkhs]

5 hours ago, costarg said:

Wow, that's strange, I'm sure i've seen him crunch a few guys pretty bad this year and think "he's gotta control that".  I specifically recall being impressed how he'd run into pretty big guys and come out on top and me thinking the kid has big bones made for the midfield.

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Put me in as being between you and gkhs. I never considered him to be adverse to getting dirty, nor have I thought he needed to dial it back. I watched plenty of Montreal games, but definitely not all, so take that for what it's worth!

For me, I would say the numbers capture something - I do see him playing quite upright, as I said - but the extremity of the numbers seems implausible.

Per FBRef, his tackling rate per 90 (successful tackles) is about half what Atiba's is and a tick above 1/5th of SE. (That is also because SE is successful more often.) That seems a bit over-the-top.

I did notice yesterday that he was the deep defender on a number of offensive set pieces - you'd think, given his height, that he would be a prime candidate to be in the mix. I wondered if the coaches had pegged him as not wanting to mix it up.

[Vasi]

4 hours ago, gkhs said:

For me, I would say the numbers capture something - I do see him playing quite upright, as I said - but the extremity of the numbers seems implausible.

Per FBRef, his tackling rate per 90 (successful tackles) is about half what Atiba's is and a tick above 1/5th of SE. (That is also because SE is successful more often.) That seems a bit over-the-top.

I did notice yesterday that he was the deep defender on a number of offensive set pieces - you'd think, given his height, that he would be a prime candidate to be in the mix. I wondered if the coaches had pegged him as not wanting to mix it up.

Good last point. However, could have the coaches wanted him to stay back as he might be the fastest and most fit out of the other midfielders? 

[canadasoccer20]

I hope he makes the jump this winter and continues to progress moving forward. Definitely one of the players right now I can see playing in a top 4 league.. More players in top leagues the better and hopefully he continues this trend!

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

13 hours ago, gkhs said:

For me, I would say the numbers capture something - I do see him playing quite upright, as I said - but the extremity of the numbers seems implausible.

Per FBRef, his tackling rate per 90 (successful tackles) is about half what Atiba's is and a tick above 1/5th of SE. (That is also because SE is successful more often.) That seems a bit over-the-top.

I did notice yesterday that he was the deep defender on a number of offensive set pieces - you'd think, given his height, that he would be a prime candidate to be in the mix. I wondered if the coaches had pegged him as not wanting to mix it up.

On the set-pieces, worth remembering he was the new legs that had come on relatively recently in a lot of the minutes he got.  A lot of time his teammates were knackered or at least slower than him.

[Snowcrash]

Kone picked up 7 yellow cards in 32 games with Montreal.  I don't know the nature of the cards and I wouldn't think they're all for dissent so that tells me he isn't afraid to make a play to win the ball.

[gkhs]

12 hours ago, Snowcrash said:

Kone picked up 7 yellow cards in 32 games with Montreal.  I don't know the nature of the cards and I wouldn't think they're all for dissent so that tells me he isn't afraid to make a play to win the ball.

Just to clarify, I'm guessing fouls (and yellow cards) don't count as successful tackles.

[Stoppage Time]

On 11/29/2022 at 5:52 AM, TGAA_Star said:

Kone should stay in MLS a bit longer with CF Montreal and then if he continues to get better as a player and matures, then I can definitely see him in a European club side but not right now.

I would support this. When Davies, obviously an exceptional talent, left VWFC, he was dominating in MLS. Kone played well for Montreal, but he has yet to dominate. Another season of improvement similar to what he had this past season would not hurt one bit, and it might increase his transfer value. Of course, Montreal could get an offer which they cannot refuse . . .

[dyslexic nam]

4 minutes ago, Stoppage Time said:

I would support this. When Davies, obviously an exceptional talent, left VWFC, he was dominating in MLS. Kone played well for Montreal, but he has yet to dominate. Another season of improvement similar to what he had this past season would not hurt one bit, and it might increase his transfer value. Of course, Montreal could get an offer which they cannot refuse . . .

I think it can work with or without dominating MLS.  A guy like Brendan Aaronson moved to Europe after doing well in MLS but not exactly dominating it (at least how I remember it). But he was a young guy with skill and tons of potential so he took the step when it appeared and has quickly moved on to the EPL.  

It wouldn’t be the worst thing for Kone to stay in Montreal for another year but if a decent opportunity presents itself I don’t see any issues with him taking it.