Ismael Kenneth Kone

[Unnamed Trialist]

So what do folks think Kone's transfer value really was, last summer?

And what will it be if we do win a match and he plays a part, or in general show well and he plays?

I'd say it'll go from the million, or a bit more, which is what his value would have been last summer (no one wiling to pay, or Montreal not interested in taking); to somewhere around 6-8 million if he really breaks out. 

A knockout round match or better obviously would alter things even more.

Our next major transfer, if you ask me, would be David. Then we'll see Porto getting offers for Eustaquio, Bruges for Tajon. Bids to move solid top flight players to even better teams. All the MLS to Europe moves, if any, will be worth less.

[VinceA]

When I open this thread and see paragraph after paragraph

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by VinceA

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So what do folks think Kone's transfer value really was, last summer?

And what will it be if we do win a match and he plays a part, or in general show well and he plays?

I'd say it'll go from the million, or a bit more, which is what his value would have been last summer (no one wiling to pay, or Montreal not interested in taking); to somewhere around 6-8 million if he really breaks out. 

A knockout round match or better obviously would alter things even more.

Our next major transfer, if you ask me, would be David. Then we'll see Porto getting offers for Eustaquio, Bruges for Tajon. Bids to move solid top flight players to even better teams. All the MLS to Europe moves, if any, will be worth less.

Kone’s transfer fee, which was accepted by Norwich, was €5M. Sheffield was offering $5.7M (whatever the equivalent in GBP is I guess). Neither transfer fell through because of the fee. He will get at least that even if he gets COVID next week and misses the entire tournament. Since then, he got an additional assist and scored a big playoff goal against Orlando, and was the reason that Canada was able to save some face against Bahrain with his early goal. I think Montreal gets around what we got for Mihailovic- €6M or so.
 

i do think Eustaquio’a transfer potential is underrated and something people seem to be afraid to speak on. English clubs love shopping in Portugal, many can’t compete with clubs like City so they have to be very smart with their money. Stephen Eustaquio at the €8M value he has on transfermarkt is an extremely savvy value buy for a lot of clubs. If Liverpool, who is apparently shopping for mids wants to go all in on Mbappe or Bellingham which is the rumour, then all of a sudden, Eustaquio becomes a very attractive budget acquisition.

Still not sold on Buchanan being sold any time soon. What did Brugge pay- €7M for him? I’m not certain he’s shown enough for them to get a big return on that investment yet.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Kone’s transfer fee, which was accepted by Norwich, was €5M. Sheffield was offering $5.7M (whatever the equivalent in GBP is I guess). Neither transfer fell through because of the fee. He will get at least that even if he gets COVID next week and misses the entire tournament. Since then, he got an additional assist and scored a big playoff goal against Orlando, and was the reason that Canada was able to save some face against Bahrain with his early goal. I think Montreal gets around what we got for Mihailovic- €6M or so.
 

i do think Eustaquio’a transfer potential is underrated and something people seem to be afraid to speak on. English clubs love shopping in Portugal, many can’t compete with clubs like City so they have to be very smart with their money. Stephen Eustaquio at the €8M value he has on transfermarkt is an extremely savvy value buy for a lot of clubs. If Liverpool, who is apparently shopping for mids wants to go all in on Mbappe or Bellingham which is the rumour, then all of a sudden, Eustaquio becomes a very attractive budget acquisition.

Still not sold on Buchanan being sold any time soon. What did Brugge pay- €7M for him? I’m not certain he’s shown enough for them to get a big return on that investment yet.

I don't believe the rumoured amounts from Championship sides. Those sound like they were floated by his agent. And seriously doubt Montreal would not take either sum you cite for a player who was as yet unproven, just getting going for them last July. It makes no sense, sorry. 

As for Tajon, I watched the matches against Atlético, he was excellent. One of the only players to embarrass Reinildo the first match, very solid the second, he interpreted the defensive role with occasional breaks forward very well. So what I saw was that he was highly rated by the Spanish press just on the basis of those two performances. In fact, the players most noted were Jutglà (logical, though he seems to have slipped in the last few weeks), Mignolet and Buchanan. Which is what got me thinking, if he too has a good WC then their CL stint goes well (and they have an accessible draw, they could make the quarter finals), he could get offers. Atlético paid a considerably higher sum for Reinildo, for example.

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't believe the rumoured amounts from Championship sides. Those sound like they were floated by his agent. And seriously doubt Montreal would not take either sum you cite for a player who was as yet unproven, just getting going for them last July. It makes no sense, sorry. 

 

From what I remember you got the highlighted part wrong. It wasn't CFM that refused the deal. They were more than willing. It was Kone's camp that refused it.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

From what I remember you got the highlighted part wrong. It wasn't CFM that refused the deal. They were more than willing. It was Kone's camp that refused it.

Sound like a load of naive storytelling to me. Really guys, that is not how transfer deals are done: he made a pass, tipped his hat; she flitted her eyelashes, they both blushed. Then, as the train pulled away, she thought about what lovely hands he had, strong and intelligent. Perhaps she had been too coy.

Our transfers out of MLS, with the exception of Davies, have been damn modest and almost always far below bloated expectations and fan forum hyperbole.

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't believe the rumoured amounts from Championship sides. Those sound like they were floated by his agent. And seriously doubt Montreal would not take either sum you cite for a player who was as yet unproven, just getting going for them last July. It makes no sense, sorry. 

As for Tajon, I watched the matches against Atlético, he was excellent. One of the only players to embarrass Reinildo the first match, very solid the second, he interpreted the defensive role with occasional breaks forward very well. So what I saw was that he was highly rated by the Spanish press just on the basis of those two performances. In fact, the players most noted were Jutglà (logical, though he seems to have slipped in the last few weeks), Mignolet and Buchanan. Which is what got me thinking, if he too has a good WC then their CL stint goes well (and they have an accessible draw, they could make the quarter finals), he could get offers. Atlético paid a considerably higher sum for Reinildo, for example.

Norwich fee was 5M pounds actually- this was reported by The Athletic:https://theathletic.com/3456378/2022/07/28/norwich-transfer-news-kone/. The article confirms that the transfer fee was agreed upon, but the "business side" fell apart, per Kone himself. That means personal terms/salary. 

Sheffield offered 4.5M- with incentives up to 5M:

We can say that these are fees floated by his agent or whatever, but then again, being that we are not privy to the actual paperwork that goes into any transfer, that is what every single

Again, the issue was not the transfer fee. With Norwich, it was Kone's personal terms, with Sheffield, it was a question of not selling the player they wanted to replace with Kone.

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

Our transfers out of MLS, with the exception of Davies, have been damn modest and almost always far below bloated expectations and fan forum hyperbole.

Montreal sold Mihailovic to Alkmaar for about the same amount, so it's not like there isn't precedent for those types of fees coming from Europe to the MLS, or Montreal more specifically.

As for Tajon, I am a big fan, obviously, but again, I don't think that he's shown enough yet to get CB a solid return on their $7M investment. Perhaps I am wrong there, but he's more of a 2024 transfer for me.

 

[Ally McCoist]

5 hours ago, VinceA said:

When I open this thread and see paragraph after paragraph

 

I can't believe people spend their valuable free time writing essays back and forth to strangers on the internet 😂

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Ally McCoist said:

I can't believe people spend their valuable free time writing essays back and forth to strangers on the internet 😂

Who says my free time is valuable?

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Ally McCoist said:

I can't believe people spend their valuable free time writing essays back and forth to strangers on the internet 😂

How else am I supposed to spend my time? Doing my job? c’mon.

[Sal333]

19 minutes ago, Ally McCoist said:

I can't believe people spend their valuable free time writing essays back and forth to strangers on the internet 😂

Would you prefer they wrote love letters instead?

[tarnado1555362291]

French media taking notice…. 
 

 

[P-O]

Canadian wonderkid.

Never seen that in my FM days.

[Kent]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:36 PM, Kadenge said:

Fantastic story indeed, but imagine if he had been "discovered" at say 16/17/18 and was in an academy where he could have developed further/faster and started his pro career earlier? Perhaps due to the influence of other Pro North American sports, we consider a 20 yr old as "young", yet several teens are playing in the top 5 leagues.  Yes they are exceptions, but I simply cannot believe that Kone's incredible skillset came about only in the last year. The Canadian scouting system has to improve if we are going to fully harness the talent that exists here. We have 3 MLS and 9 (10 hopefully) CPL teams now and the net has to be cast out far and wide...coast to coast to coast

This is a commonly held belief on here, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence he would be a better player today if he had been in an MLS academy when he was younger. People talk like a year in an academy will always produce better improvement than a year with some random amateur team, but why do people think this? I am more familiar with TFC, so maybe that's why, but there are plenty of examples of guys that are discovered outside of MLS academies and do well. Raheem Edwards was discovered as an opponent to TFC in L1O, had a cup of coffee with the academy then signed a pro deal. Same situation with Osorio. Alistair Johnstone and Tajon Buchanan weren't with pro academies and then eventually went through NCAA to get to MLS. Then you have a guy like Jordan Hamilton (sorry to pick on Jordan) who was a big prospect within TFC's academy at age 14, and got invited to pre-season camp with the senior team. A year later, invited to pre-season camp again. Spent years and years in the academy getting this supposed magical development boost year after year, and now plays for Forge (only played 7 minutes in the playoffs, so I guess he is a bench player for them, unless he was hurt? I don't actually know) while Buchanan, Johnstone, and others have passed him by and are going to the World Cup despite the handicap of playing with Vaughan Azzuri or Sigma (if I remember off the top of my head, I might be wrong). I think the non-pro clubs don't get enough respect around here.

Of course I'd still love a couple of CPL teams to pop up in Quebec to give more opportunities to young players in the area though, once they are ready for a pro shot.

[dyslexic nam]

Damn I hope he lights it up for us and grabs the attention of some exciting club teams.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by dyslexic nam

[Vasi]

https://www.tsn.ca/fifa-world-cup/video/the-meteoric-rise-of-ismael-kone~2567264

 

TSN spotlight 

[Sal333]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:36 PM, Kadenge said:

Fantastic story indeed, but imagine if he had been "discovered" at say 16/17/18 and was in an academy where he could have developed further/faster and started his pro career earlier? Perhaps due to the influence of other Pro North American sports, we consider a 20 yr old as "young", yet several teens are playing in the top 5 leagues.  Yes they are exceptions, but I simply cannot believe that Kone's incredible skillset came about only in the last year. The Canadian scouting system has to improve if we are going to fully harness the talent that exists here. We have 3 MLS and 9 (10 hopefully) CPL teams now and the net has to be cast out far and wide...coast to coast to coast

 

[Kadenge]

11 hours ago, Sal333 said:

 

That's too deep for me

[Sal333]

23 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

That's too deep for me

I'll put it in my own words. We have a twenty year old kid who is on the verge of becoming something special for himself and for country. What makes you think a different road would have improved his situation. It could just as easily have derailed his career. It's not like Canada doesn't have scores of examples of great young players taking the conventional route and burning out. Let's be thankful Kone made it his way.

[Kadenge]

4 hours ago, Sal333 said:

I'll put it in my own words. We have a twenty year old kid who is on the verge of becoming something special for himself and for country. What makes you think a different road would have improved his situation. It could just as easily have derailed his career. It's not like Canada doesn't have scores of examples of great young players taking the conventional route and burning out. Let's be thankful Kone made it his way.

There are indeed different pathways to the top, but I also believe that a good teacher makes a better student, a strong mentor makes a better employee and a good coach makes a better soccer player. Like Kone, Davies and David had gaps in their game when they were 18, but those gaps had significantly narrowed by the time they turned 20 playing at Bayern and Ghent/Lille. If you believe that the coaching quality at amateur teams is at the same level as Sigma or MLS pro academies (perhaps you are correct) then we have bigger issues with soccer development. It's difficult to assess young talent, but Kone's skillset and athleticism is something that should have been apparent at 18 or younger. He's a special player that should not be grouped with others who did not make it in academies. Btw I am overjoyed that Kone has emerged, but we need a proactive vs passive development soccer program if we are to become a power in world soccer. It's worked out for Kone so far but to use your analogy, he could easily have just given up after he was rejected by Montreal twice apparently. Just happy he stuck with it.

[Sal333]

3 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

There are indeed different pathways to the top, but I also believe that a good teacher makes a better student, a strong mentor makes a better employee and a good coach makes a better soccer player. Like Kone, Davies and David had gaps in their game when they were 18, but those gaps had significantly narrowed by the time they turned 20 playing at Bayern and Ghent/Lille. If you believe that the coaching quality at amateur teams is at the same level as Sigma or MLS pro academies (perhaps you are correct) then we have bigger issues with soccer development. It's difficult to assess young talent, but Kone's skillset and athleticism is something that should have been apparent at 18 or younger. He's a special player that should not be grouped with others who did not make it in academies. Btw I am overjoyed that Kone has emerged, but we need a proactive vs passive development soccer program if we are to become a power in world soccer. It's worked out for Kone so far but to use your analogy, he could easily have just given up after he was rejected by Montreal twice apparently. Just happy he stuck with it.

If I remember correctly that TSN video said he was rejected three times. What makes you think it wasn't the rejections that spurred him on? On this site and on another I've read posts from a couple of people who played with him in the amateur ranks. They all said they were surprised by his success. He didn't stand out when they played him.

Why don't we look at another Montreal kid with roots in the Ivory Coast: Tabla. He walked on a red carpet all the way to Spain. I can remember many people saying he was better than Davies. This past year he played in the CPL in Ottawa. Can I say maybe he should have been rejected once or twice? It's impossible to say what will and will not work. 

[Kadenge]

1 minute ago, Sal333 said:

If I remember correctly that TSN video said he was rejected three times. What makes you think it wasn't the rejections that spurred him on? On this site and on another I've read posts from a couple of people who played with him in the amateur ranks. They all said they were surprised by his success. He didn't stand out when they played him.

Why don't we look at another Montreal kid with roots in the Ivory Coast: Tabla. He walked on a red carpet all the way to Spain. I can remember many people saying he was better than Davies. This past year he played in the CPL in Ottawa. Can I say maybe he should have been rejected once or twice? It's impossible to say what will and will not work. 

We do agree on the bolded part, but if pro academies don't work why do clubs around the world invest so heavily on them? Whether you run a business or a soccer club you need a plan, a blueprint that works and can be followed and amended accordingly.  Tabla is not an example I would use. Yes he was super talented, and it wasn't just people on this forum as Barcelona signed him. We all know what Ballou's issues were, so I won't repeat them but it wasn't a lack of talent. 

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

If you believe that the coaching quality at amateur teams is at the same level as Sigma or MLS pro academies (perhaps you are correct) then we have bigger issues with soccer development.

This is assuming the level is the same because the pro academies are deficient. The case could be that there are some very good coaches that are on amateur teams. Perhaps the coach that Jonathan David had for so many years is better than any coach in TFC's or CFM's academies.

 

45 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

We do agree on the bolded part, but if pro academies don't work why do clubs around the world invest so heavily on them?

I'm not going to say they don't work, but I do think their importance gets overhyped on here. I think part of the reason for an academy from the club's perspective can be calling dibs on players. Some players start out at one academy and then later get recruited to a bigger academy. You want the first chance to sign potential new stars and have them in your system, so it's easier and cheaper to convince them to join your academy than it is to purchase them from their club when they are a pro for an 8 digit figure.

Another reason to have academies may just be habit. Does Real Madrid or Manchester City really need an academy? They seem to buy most of their starting 11 anyways (I haven't looked this up, feel free to prove me wrong someone), and with the money saved on not having an academy they could buy the players that otherwise would have been in their academies.

One thing that I think can be very beneficial in Canada with pro academies, is if it is a free to play academy. There are no doubt players that can't afford to play organized soccer, especially at the highest levels. For example OPDL I believe is very expensive to play, and it's the top level in Ontario youth soccer, so there could be players that are good enough to play there, but can't afford the fees. A player like Davies might not have been possible if it wasn't for the free to play program that found him in Edmonton. He might have flamed out as a natural talent that never got the competitive games in to fulfill his potential.

[mpg_29]

So Kone seems 3rd on the CM pecking order now? Ahead of Piette and Kaye?

Probably starts a game if Hutch can't.

[rydermike]

12 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

So Kone seems 3rd on the CM pecking order now? Ahead of Piette and Kaye?

Probably starts a game if Hutch can't.

Probably ahead of Kaye for sure. In terms of Piette, it's probably a situational thing. Need offense, it's Kone. Need defense, it's Piette. We were trailing so Kone was chosen.

I think a fully healthy Osorio is 3rd on the chart. Eustaquio-Hutchinson-Osorio, then Kone/Piette.

Edited November 24, 2022 by rydermike