Justin Smith

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Future MLSer as the floor of one's career prospects seems awfully generous.

Montreal wanted to bring him in last year, he refused. He can obviously drop a lot lower than MLS, but I figure if it doesn’t work at Espanyol, he’ll at least get his shot over here before looking elsewhere.

[Dominic94]

I don’t think they buy him if they don’t see some chance of being an asset.

 

he wasn’t handled well at nice at all. Hope it works out, could still be a piece for us. 

[narduch]

49 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Good move. Think we’ll have our answer by season’s end if he’s an upper tier player or future MLSer. Can’t imagine he stays at Espanyol B for more than a season, 2 max

His trajectory seems more like future CPLer

[narduch]

37 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Montreal wanted to bring him in last year, he refused. He can obviously drop a lot lower than MLS, but I figure if it doesn’t work at Espanyol, he’ll at least get his shot over here before looking elsewhere.

Hindsight being 20/20 this appears to have been a mistake

[InglewoodJack]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

His trajectory seems more like future CPLer

Well, he’s more or less on the Samuel Piette path right now, no? Maybe he drops to the CPL at some point, but I did watch a few games at Avranches last year, and he looked like one of their best players. scored against PSG last preseason with Nice, one of our best U20s when he was with the national team. I think this is a resume that’s at least worth a look in MLS before figuring out where he goes. Not that he can’t impress with Espanyol and eventually make his way to the A team. 
 

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

Hindsight being 20/20 this appears to have been a mistake

Could’ve been a loan with guaranteed purchase after or something. Montreal may have also not guaranteed playing time. I think Alvarez, the 20 year old CB we did end up getting only really broke into the squad this year.

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

Future MLSer as the floor of one's career prospects seems awfully generous.

I would have confidently stated that based on his U20 performances, but it is odd that this hasn't seemed to translate into progress at the club level.  I still believe he likely has that as a fairly reasonable minimum expectation though. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 hours ago, Big_M said:

Just saw that his team Avranches in the third tier actually got relegated and they didnt trust him to start in the do or die games at the end of the season...the year before he barely got on the field for Quevilly in the second tier and mainly played in their second team in the fifth tier...the story here is most likely that there was no serious interest in him in the top three tiers of France and he jumped on this opportunity to go abroad...he has two years now to make a name for himself in Spain

Yes, but he's gone to a much stronger team than he's ever belonged to. Far stronger than Nice, more money bigger stadium better fanbase. On the first team, true. 

I'd like to believe the virtues we saw a few years back are still intact.

[jonovision]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

His trajectory seems more like future CPLer

I don't see why CPL would be an obvious destination for someone who has never lived in Canada. 

He'll progress through the lower divisions in Europe, or he won't. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Yes, but he's gone to a much stronger team than he's ever belonged to. Far stronger than Nice, more money bigger stadium better fanbase. On the first team, true. 

I'd like to believe the virtues we saw a few years back are still intact.

Interesting. The move struck me as a slight step up, or possibly lateral. 

Your comment prompted me to dig into both clubs and compare them:

• Nice play at the 36k Allianz Riviera. Espanyol play at the 40k Stage Front Stadium.
• Nice finished 5th last year in Ligue 1, Espanyol promoted from La Liga 2.
• Nice have a TM value of 224M . Espanyol have a TM value of 40M (but would typically be higher).
• Nice have played in 70 European games, mostly in the UEFA Cup/Europa League, and never having advanced beyond a QF.
• Espanyol have played 75 European games, never in the Champions League, but twice played in the UEFA Cup/Europa League finals (1988, 2007). 
• Nice have won Ligue 1 four times, and the Coup de France on three occassions. Espanyol have won Copa Del Rey four times, with no La Liga titles. 
• Espanyol have played 5 seasons in the 2nd division, winning it twice. Can't find how many times Nice has played in the 2nd division, but they've won it 4 times, and were runners up once. 

If you consider all the history, I think I am looking at two clubs with comparable records, achievements, and stats. And even considering the reality that Spanish club football is stronger than French football, it still seems like both clubs are in the same general category when you consider all the data.

Seems that historically there is a slight edge to Espanyol, but a bigger edge to Nice in the present day.

Thoughts? Care to challenge that and back up your claim it's a big step up for Smith?

Edited July 24 by Obinna

[InglewoodJack]

36 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Interesting. The move struck me as a slight step up, or possibly lateral. 

Your comment prompted me to dig into both clubs and compare them:

• Nice play at the 36k Allianz Riviera. Espanyol play at the 40k Stage Front Stadium.
• Nice finished 5th last year in Ligue 1, Espanyol promoted from La Liga 2.
• Nice have a TM value of 224M . Espanyol have a TM value of 40M (but would typically be higher).
• Nice have played in 70 European games, mostly in the UEFA Cup/Europa League, and never having advanced beyond a QF.
• Espanyol have played 75 European games, never in the Champions League, but twice played in the UEFA Cup/Europa League finals (1988, 2007). 
• Nice have won Ligue 1 four times, and the Coup de France on three occassions. Espanyol have won Copa Del Rey four times, with no La Liga titles. 
• Espanyol have played 5 seasons in the 2nd division, winning it twice. Can't find how many times Nice has played in the 2nd division, but they've won it 4 times, and were runners up once. 

If you consider all the history, I think I am looking at two clubs with comparable records, achievements, and stats. And even considering the reality that Spanish club football is stronger than French football, it still seems like both clubs are in the same general category when you consider all the data.

Seems that historically there is a slight edge to Espanyol, but a bigger edge to Nice in the present day.

Thoughts? Care to challenge that and back up your claim it's a big step up for Smith?

Both clubs have a lot of history, but Nice have been in Ligue 1 since I believe 2006, and Espanyol have gotten relegated twice since 2021. By the time Smith breaks into the first team, if ever, there’s no promise that Espanyol will even be in La Liga.

 

In any case, Espanyol is definitely not the biggest club he’s ever been at- he came up through the PSG system I believe.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

Interesting. The move struck me as a slight step up, or possibly lateral. 

Your comment prompted me to dig into both clubs and compare them:

• Nice play at the 36k Allianz Riviera. Espanyol play at the 40k Stage Front Stadium.
• Nice finished 5th last year in Ligue 1, Espanyol promoted from La Liga 2.
• Nice have a TM value of 224M . Espanyol have a TM value of 40M (but would typically be higher).
• Nice have played in 70 European games, mostly in the UEFA Cup/Europa League, and never having advanced beyond a QF.
• Espanyol have played 75 European games, never in the Champions League, but twice played in the UEFA Cup/Europa League finals (1988, 2007). 
• Nice have won Ligue 1 four times, and the Coup de France on three occassions. Espanyol have won Copa Del Rey four times, with no La Liga titles. 
• Espanyol have played 5 seasons in the 2nd division, winning it twice. Can't find how many times Nice has played in the 2nd division, but they've won it 4 times, and were runners up once. 

If you consider all the history, I think I am looking at two clubs with comparable records, achievements, and stats. And even considering the reality that Spanish club football is stronger than French football, it still seems like both clubs are in the same general category when you consider all the data.

Seems that historically there is a slight edge to Espanyol, but a bigger edge to Nice in the present day.

Thoughts? Care to challenge that and back up your claim it's a big step up for Smith?

That was very well analyzed I'd say. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

That was very well analyzed I'd say. 

I was curious about another one: Espanyol is 7th overall in the historical Liga table, and Nice is 8th in the historical Ligue 1 table. Which surprised me, I did not know they had that legacy. 

The full story arch for Justin is that Gaultier brought him up to the first team to sit on the bench many times 3 seasons ago, but he never appeared. So that he was valued by a top manager and seemed close to the breakthrough---then it stalled and he's had 2 mediocre loan years. But did finally get minutes last season.

So this is the moment where he either turns it around or doesn't.

The other is that he's on a low salary at Nice B team and on loan, and that going to Espanyol B would also be a low salary, I doubt these two years are hitting 100 thousand euros a year. Maybe close to 70? The minimum salary is 3000 euros net a month, just over 50,000 before taxes.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I was curious about another one: Espanyol is 7th overall in the historical Liga table, and Nice is 8th in the historical Ligue 1 table. Which surprised me, I did not know they had that legacy. 

The full story arch for Justin is that Gaultier brought him up to the first team to sit on the bench many times 3 seasons ago, but he never appeared. So that he was valued by a top manager and seemed close to the breakthrough---then it stalled and he's had 2 mediocre loan years. But did finally get minutes last season.

So this is the moment where he either turns it around or doesn't.

The other is that he's on a low salary at Nice B team and on loan, and that going to Espanyol B would also be a low salary, I doubt these two years are hitting 100 thousand euros a year. Maybe close to 70? The minimum salary is 3000 euros net a month, just over 50,000 before taxes.

Glad you brought that up. It was another metric I wondered about but I got too lazy after a while

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Both clubs have a lot of history, but Nice have been in Ligue 1 since I believe 2006, and Espanyol have gotten relegated twice since 2021. By the time Smith breaks into the first team, if ever, there’s no promise that Espanyol will even be in La Liga.

 

In any case, Espanyol is definitely not the biggest club he’s ever been at- he came up through the PSG system I believe.

That could be a good thing. Maybe it accelerates his path into first team football.

Either way, I have a good feeling about this move. I am one of those who believes in Smith and likes to think it was more a matter of the club failing to develop the player than the player failing to do his part.

I know what I saw n those Canada youth games, he's a talent for sure. And like you said, he played youth ball at PSG (forgot about that until you reminded us), so there's likely a diamond in the rough here. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

He's not going with the 28 players to the first team preseason near Girona. They're taking 10 from the B team, which tells us how slow they are getting the roster together. 

[costarg]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

I know what I saw n those Canada youth games, he's a talent for sure.

Also helps he's on the D side of the ball.  Someone with defending awareness and talent is "usually" not averse to putting in the work, where as a creative and attacking talent can often be one dimensional and crash and burn once the level rises.  See:  Adu, Tabla, Boakai.

[FC_Hali]

Crazy what a good tournament can do for a player’s career. I didn’t even have him in my preferred starting 11 based on his performances under Biello and limited appearances under Herdman. Never watched him at Malmo but he was pretty mediocre with the Whitecaps. Well done to him and certainly some credit goes to Marsch. 
 

***Oops, meant for the Cornelius thread. Not sure how to delete a post

Edited July 26 by FC_Hali

[jonovision]

Just now, FC_Hali said:

Crazy what a good tournament can do for a player’s career. I didn’t even have him in my preferred starting 11 based on his performances under Biello and limited appearances under Herdman. Never watched him at Malmo but he was pretty mediocre with the Whitecaps. Well done to him and certainly some credit goes to Marsch. 

Good post, wrong thread!

[FC_Hali]

2 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Good post, wrong thread!

Thanks, just realized!

[InglewoodJack]

Question: is he signed to Espanyol or just Espanyol B? I feel like whenever players sign with top division clubs outside of Spain, they’re always announced as signing with the parent club (then assigned to the reserves), but with Spain, they seem to explicitly sign with the B team- the Lowell Wright rumour said that Villarreal B was interested. 
 

I guess the question is, could he theoretically play for Espanyol right away if he was needed for whatever reason, or is it a completely different contract? Kinda like how some hockey players have a two way contract vs a minor league deal with the NHL team’s affiliate

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Question: is he signed to Espanyol or just Espanyol B? I feel like whenever players sign with top division clubs outside of Spain, they’re always announced as signing with the parent club (then assigned to the reserves), but with Spain, they seem to explicitly sign with the B team- the Lowell Wright rumour said that Villarreal B was interested. 
 

I guess the question is, could he theoretically play for Espanyol right away if he was needed for whatever reason, or is it a completely different contract? Kinda like how some hockey players have a two way contract vs a minor league deal with the NHL team’s affiliate

There's zero reason he couldn't be moved up. Up and down. The only caveat is that there's a salary adjustment that's a bit hard to understand if he plays in La Liga.

If he were registered with the first team he'd been on a much higher Liga minimum salary. 

The 4th tier has incentives for younger players, allows some "development" contacts, also has the obligation with B teams of a minimum # of professional contracts. For Espanyol it's for their 23-25 post u19s. It is actually rather rare for them to sign outsiders for the B. 

There are limits on taking a player down from a first team contract though. 

I'm not back until late August otherwise I'd go check out their training.

Edited July 27 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

He played 90 Saturday, apparently in midfield, as Espanyol B tied Andorra 1-1 up in the mountains.

(Edit: from some reports it's possible he didn't play 90)

On the 7th he subbed in 2nd half, but not sure when, as Espanyol B beat Sabadell B, 1-2. 

He didn't play in their first friendly last weekend vs. Tona, a team a lot of teams go play in preseason because they are in the cooler Pyrenees foothills and have a beautiful grass pitch. I once saw Santiago Fernández play for Barcelona B there, Fernández was born in Mexico but grew up in North Vancouver and I think was eligible for us. An odd case, he ended his own career when playing in Mexico top flight at age 24.

 

 

Edited August 12 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

He played 70 in a friendly away at Villareal B, lost 3-0. The rival team just relegated from 2nd division and is still a tier above them.

No word on how he did, though it seems he was in the midfield in a 3-5-2. The team was looking for the draw when Villareal scored on a counter, around the time he was subbed off, then got one more when he was off. 

https://www.rcdespanyol.com/es/noticia/30-derrota-en-vilareal/17489

[Unnamed Trialist]

They're away to Gimnàstic de Tarragona today Sunday, 7pm local time. 

Sometimes these clubs stream preseason matches, it'd be nice to get a sense of how he's doing, and since he's getting minutes, what they might see in him.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

They're away to Gimnàstic de Tarragona today Sunday, 7pm local time. 

Sometimes these clubs stream preseason matches, it'd be nice to get a sense of how he's doing, and since he's getting minutes, what they might see in him.

They lost 3-0, he did not start. 

Both the first team and the B are not doing well this preseason, the former start their league tomorrow.

[blueseeka]

First game is live with Espanyol B. He does seem to be playing in the midfield.