Auro for CanMNT?

[Approve My Account Pls]

To be honest, this whole argument is moot because in the even Auro could become MNT eligible, I think there's quite a few guys in front of him anyway. Would he add to our overall depth? Sure. But I honestly don't even think he sniffs the lineup unless we had crazy injury problems or a lot of euro guys opting out of a window or something along those lines

[frmr]

1 minute ago, Califax said:

Player 2 sounds great! He deserves his own thread! 

How about two?

[Shway]

Just now, frmr said:

Yeah, this is my thoughts as well. For people saying they don't want Auro, it's hypocritical to say they're excited and welcoming towards Ugbo, Wotherspoon, Arfield, etc. As long as Fifa allows it, I'm all for it. The big deciding factor for me is if someone actually wants to play for Canada or not. I'd much rather have an Auro who wants to represent Canada, than someone who has an ancestral connection to Canada but sees us as a third option.

Leave Ugbo out of it. He lived and played in the country at least. He has Canadian memories that he can refer to.

[El Hombre]

4 minutes ago, Shway said:

Question for you and that group based on these scenarios.

There's two players.

Player 1:
- Has played for another country at the youth level
- Has migrated to Canada at 22, and has played the last 5 years in the country
- Stays in Canada during the offseason and acclimatizes to the culture
- Is a Canadian citizen
- Wants to play for the CMNT at age 26

Player 2:
- Has played for another country at the youth level
- Has a Canadian parent so is eligible to play for Canada
- Has never stepped foot in the country
- Wants to play for CMNT at age 28
- Has played for the CMNT

Of these two players, which player would you say has "literally no connection to Canada)

To be honest, not a big fan of either.  I realize Arfield is a great player and all, but to me if he never puts on the jersey again, I won't be bothered.

[Califax]

1 minute ago, frmr said:

How about two?

👏👏👏

[Shway]

1 minute ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

To be honest, this whole argument is moot because in the even Auro could become MNT eligible, I think there's quite a few guys in front of him anyway. Would he add to our overall depth? Sure. But I honestly don't even think he sniffs the lineup unless we had crazy injury problems or a lot of euro guys opting out of a window or something along those lines

It's his versatility for me that makes him attractive. Versatility seems like it's a prerequisite to be in the team.

[frmr]

Just now, Shway said:

Leave Ugbo out of it. He lived and played in the country at least. He has Canadian memories that he can refer to.

Yeah but my point is, he's no more "Canadian" than Auro. It's just a different time frame.

[Shway]

Just now, El Hombre said:

To be honest, not a big fan of either.  I realize Arfield is a great player and all, but to me if he never puts on the jersey again, I won't be bothered.

Fair enough. But you didn't answer the question in your honest opinion. 

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, frmr said:

How about two?

I can see the title already "The Importance of ...."

[CCrTFC]

17 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Let me be clear, I'm all for him becoming a Canadian.  Everybody should be as lucky as I am.  This is the best country to live in and I have no problem with that. 

I just wouldn't enjoy watching the national team as much if more and more players representing the red are from that situation.

A Canadian is a Canadian. You're entitled to your opinion and I don't feel there is any malice from your part but this kind of thinking can take a really dark turn. 

[Free kick]

By the way who is this Sonholm character?   tried googling his name, nothing came up.

 

Edit.:  ok now i found the thread on this guy.  Good grief guys!

Edited January 4, 2022 by Free kick

[N1ckbr0wn]

Auro has Canada tatted on him. He clearly loves the country and has adopted it to be his own, so specifically speaking on how “Canadian” he is, there is no argument. That’s about as Canadian as you can be. As for his quality, I’m open to absolutely any type of depth. I welcome him with wide open arms, I can’t believe there is even an argument on this. Isn’t he only like 26? Serviceable for sure.

[Califax]

2 minutes ago, Free kick said:

By the way who is this Sonholm character?   tried googling his name, nothing came up.

West Side Story, Into the Woods. Talented dude 

 

 

[Approve My Account Pls]

8 minutes ago, Shway said:

It's his versatility for me that makes him attractive. Versatility seems like it's a prerequisite to be in the team.

Sure he can play multiple positions for TFC, but the thing is we've got guys that are both versatile AND better ahead of him... don't get me wrong, I like Auro and what he's done over the years for TFC and I love the fact he loves being in Toronto and Canada, but I just don't think he's good enough for our National Program anymore. At best, he's our 4th best RB option and all the guys ahead of him can also play multiple positions

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I don't know if it would.  Say for example, there is some prestigious engineering competition and the Canadian team is made up of people that grew up elsewhere and got their degrees and masters from MIT or some other prestigious university abroad but were then poached by a Canadian company (say 2005-era Bombardier) who paid for their visas and moving costs to work for them.  Would there be as much pride in this team as there would be if the team was made up of McGill or Queens educated engineers who then went on to work at Aecon or Ellis Don?

When you put it like that, probably not. I get what you're saying, pride may come from those trained domestically. Of course though, it depends on who you ask when it comes to this subjective stuff. 

[El Hombre]

22 minutes ago, Shway said:

Fair enough. But you didn't answer the question in your honest opinion. 

Sorry, thought I did.  My answer would be "both".

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Sure he can play multiple positions for TFC, but the thing is we've got guys that are both versatile AND better ahead of him... don't get me wrong, I like Auro and what he's done over the years for TFC and I love the fact he loves being in Toronto and Canada, but I just don't think he's good enough for our National Program anymore. At best, he's our 4th best RB option and all the guys ahead of him can also play multiple positions

I agree with your take, but maybe we shouldn't treat this as definitive? I believe Auro is likely at his ceiling, and I am sure most would agree, but we can't say for this for certain.

I know you're not arguing against him declaring for Canada here, I just want to stress to everyone there's no downside for Canada here, because if he's not good enough then whatever, it doesn't hurt us.

Even if we cap him, only to discover he's not good enough, taking away an opportunity from a younger player in the process, it would be no more damaging than calling up Waterman and discovering the same thing. 

[Approve My Account Pls]

25 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agree with your take, but maybe we shouldn't treat this as definitive? I believe Auro is likely at his ceiling, and I am sure most would agree, but we can't say for this for certain.

I know you're not arguing against him declaring for Canada here, I just want to stress to everyone there's no downside for Canada here, because if he's not good enough then whatever, it doesn't hurt us.

Even if we cap him, only to discover he's not good enough, taking away an opportunity from a younger player in the process, it would be no more damaging than calling up Waterman and discovering the same thing. 

Agreed, can never have enough depth

(just adding to your list of analogies at the end, no less detrimental than running a social media campaign welcoming Ferreira)

Edited January 4, 2022 by Approve My Account Pls

[El Hombre]

Wow, so that blew up.  Nothing like a bunch of quote notifications to get the brain working in the morning.  I'd like to clarify a few things:

1) I love Canada's immigration policy.  I think its great.  If someone wants to become Canadian, I completely get it and welcome them with open arms.

2) I am not defining who is or isn't Canadian.  See above.

3) I have no doubt he loves living in Canada because it is an amazing place to live.  Most people come away with that feeling after living here. 

4) I do see a significant difference between someone like Auro and the average immigrant coming to Canada and every other player (like Davies and David) that I have apparently disrespected with my comment.  I don't quite understand that criticism personally.

My issues are two-fold:

1) The immediate insinuation that he is better than other alternatives currently in the program because he is Brazilian (or Spanish or English or whatever depending on the case).  Sometimes we fall into that trap.  I assume the same thing happens in the German Hockey League when a Junior A player from Chicoutimi goes over there.  Being exotic does not necessarily mean they are better.

2) This insinuation on his part that he would just walk into the team.  Or even be good enough to make the bench.  I think he'd be hard pressed to make a 50-man preliminary squad with Laryea, Johnston, ZBG and Bassong ahead of him.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The above two items are complete projection on my part.  This is from years of following the national team and having the level of soccer talent disrespected on a consistent basis by those who do not follow the team.  To my knowledge, he has never said that making the team would be easy.  I am projecting that on to him.  That's my issue.  But its from years of being told that some middling players (like Andy Welsh or Kekuta Manneh or Fuad Ibrahim or Gershon Koffie) would easily walk on to the team.  There are times in recent history where that might've been true (2012-2013).  But not now and not for a long while to come.

3) Finally, I love seeing Canadian kids come out of nowhere to take the spotlight.  This is why my favourite players are guys like Adrian Serioux and Rob Friend.  I feel like the more players like this (ie. came to Canada at an age of 21+ because they were hired by an MLS team, guys who leverage a great-aunt that had a cup of tea in Hamilton because the national team they do want to play for doesn't want them) that are brought into the fold, the less opportunities there are of having that kid from Nova Scotia or Saskatchewan take the world by storm.

This does not mean that I want him to be barred from becoming Canadian.  All the more power to him.  Love it.  All I know though is that I would feel slightly disappointed if I paid for airfare to go see a game and he was playing, mostly because I think there are far far better options.  This does not mean that I hate him or don't consider him Canadian.

[archer21]

I’m a bit conflicted on allowing this sort of thing. As a CMNT supporter, I’d be welcoming to anybody who wants to play for us and is going to fight for the country. It’s hard to differentiate whether a particular player really feels pride in playing for Canada vs just wanting to play in a World Cup, but it seems like for Auro in particular, he would just love to play for us. So I’d happily cheer for him in a Canada shirt. It does open up for some questionable tactics though for bigger nations. There would be nothing to stop England/Spain/Germany from just hoarding all the top players for their national teams by taking all the top players from their domestic league. I’m sure that’s probably unrealistic, but you can see how quickly international football would become a bit of a joke if that were to happen.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I’m a bit conflicted on allowing this sort of thing. As a CMNT supporter, I’d be welcoming to anybody who wants to play for us and is going to fight for the country. It’s hard to differentiate whether a particular player really feels pride in playing for Canada vs just wanting to play in a World Cup, but it seems like for Auro in particular, he would just love to play for us. So I’d happily cheer for him in a Canada shirt. It does open up for some questionable tactics though for bigger nations. There would be nothing to stop England/Spain/Germany from just hoarding all the top players for their national teams by taking all the top players from their domestic league. I’m sure that’s probably unrealistic, but you can see how quickly international football would become a bit of a joke if that were to happen.

I personally would like the rules to be more restrictive, generally speaking. At least make the rules less fluid, they seem to change every couple of years and they get more and more confusing. It does make things a bit of a joke.

That said, so long as the rules are what they are, we have to play within them and strengthen accordingly, just like everyone else. I wouldn't blame England or whoever for hoarding all the top players if they rules allowed them to. We should be doing the same, even though I agree that such tactics take the shine off the international game. 

[Shway]

7 minutes ago, archer21 said:

There would be nothing to stop England/Spain/Germany from just hoarding all the top players for their national teams by taking all the top players from their domestic league. I’m sure that’s probably unrealistic, but you can see how quickly international football would become a bit of a joke if that were to happen.

This happens already, but the difference is these guys are being brought to the academies (younger age, example being Jebbison). 

The reality is most foreign player plying their trade in England/Spain/Germany are most likely internationals before they move to those leagues. The hoarding of talent, is typically done at the younger ages, and less likely when a player is over the age of 25.

[Ivan]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I personally would like the rules to be more restrictive, generally speaking. At least make the rules less fluid, they seem to change every couple of years and they get more and more confusing. It does make things a bit of a joke.

That said, so long as the rules are what they are, we have to play within them and strengthen accordingly, just like everyone else. I wouldn't blame England or whoever for hoarding all the top players if they rules allowed them to. We should be doing the same, even though I agree that such tactics take the shine off the international game. 

Well said.  It is becoming more farcical.  The majority of Jamaica's team is built that way.  I will never cheer for them to qualify.  In fact, I hope they finish last.

I am not a big fan of the Arfields, Wotherspoons and (maybe) Solholms suiting up for us, but I generally warm up to them once they wear the shirt.  Auro wouldn't make our team.  Solholm and even Ferdi would not start for us.

I am more pissed that we have a chance to lose players like Flores, Jebbison and Diaz than I am excited about the possibility of those above playing for us. 

[El Hombre]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I personally would like the rules to be more restrictive, generally speaking. At least make the rules less fluid, they seem to change every couple of years and they get more and more confusing. It does make things a bit of a joke.

I'm all for making things more restrictive.  Definitely agree with this.

[GasPed]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Of these two players, which player would you say has "literally no connection to Canada)

You forgot to include the most important information - i.e. their transfer market values.  That (at least in my mind) is the key determinant of who is a true Canadian.  (Jk - actually no, only half kidding 😉)