Stefan Mitrovic

[El Hombre]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What you are saying is true only for the bolded players: Marmoush, Ferdi and Sali, though he is more debatable than the other two.

Everyone else is/was fair game and would rightfully be considered a loss, even if some of them (like Flores) were always unlikely.

So, if we do everything humanly possible and the player still chooses another country, we're going to consider that a loss?

Strange metric to track in my opinion.

[InglewoodJack]

7 minutes ago, Tyler55 said:

 

How has there been no further contact with Canada? What is wrong with the people running this program? I don’t think this is the final nail in the coffin, but I would be shocked if he played for Canada at this point.

anyways, maybe this is 5120 dimension chess and Canada hasn’t alerted players who made the final cut, so it’s him telling Herdman to call up his son or lose him. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by InglewoodJack

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Tyler55 said:

 

Reads like he was under consideration for Canada but not selected and therefore opted for the country that was calling him. If this is true and we miss out on him Herdman bares that responsibity, because his exclusion (if that's what happened) amounts to a coaching decision.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

[Corazon]

If I had to group them:

Tomori hurt because he actually played with our youth program.  He's in a position of need and he's barely played since committing to England (finally another deserved call up this month for England).

Sali is unique because it is far too early to tell in my opinion. 

Like Sali, both of Yankov & Flores spent a good portion of their life growing up in Canada and in Canadian youth soccer systems so they sting a little bit more.

Ferdi & Marmoush were so distant that it's not a big deal (although both would be on our 23 man roster if they chose Canada). 

As for the dual nationals that have joined Canada recently, most of the players are not necessarily who we've won but rather who were never going to make their other respective countries.  This goes for Eustaquio and Portugal, Sturing and Netherlands, Gutierrez and Chile.  I don't even think Singh is good enough for T&T, let alone Canada.

Akinola, Ugbo and potentially even Corbeanu were big additions considering they still potentially had a future with their other respective eleigible nations.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

So, if we do everything humanly possible and the player still chooses another country, we're going to consider that a loss?

Strange metric to track in my opinion.

That's a big IF in the case of Mitrovic, but less so with Flores. Seems like he just had is heart set on Mexico, which is fine. That's still a loss though, whereas Marmoush and Ferdi aren't as they were never, ever considering Canada (especially Marmoush). 

You can see the difference, no?

[Unnamed Trialist]

The "no further contact with Canada" line is the best argument against "the brotherhood". 

 

[VinceA]

If there hasn't been further contact maybe that's because the roster isn't finalized yet.

[Obinna]

Just now, Unnamed Trialist said:

The "no further contact with Canada" line is the best argument against "the brotherhood". 

 

No. More like you are trying to make connections that don't exist.

[El Hombre]

1 minute ago, Corazon said:

If I had to group them:

Tomori hurt because he actually played with our youth program.  He's in a position of need and he's barely played since committing to England (finally another deserved call up this month for England).

Sali is unique because it is far too early to tell in my opinion. 

Like Sali, both of Yankov & Flores spent a good portion of their life growing up in Canada and in Canadian youth soccer systems so they sting a little bit more.

Ferdi & Marmoush were so distant that it's not a big deal (although both would be on our 23 man roster if they chose Canada). 

As for the dual nationals that have joined Canada recently, most of the players are not necessarily who we've won but rather who were never going to make their other respective countries.  This goes for Eustaquio and Portugal, Sturing and Netherlands, Gutierrez and Chile.  I don't even think Singh is good enough for T&T, let alone Canada.

Akinola, Ugbo and potentially even Corbeanu were big additions considering they still potentially had a future with their other respective eleigible nations.

Singh chose us while in the midst of being called for TnT.  Two of Eustaquio's midfield teammates were in the March squad for Portugal, so I don't think its a given that he would never get a call.  

Yankov and Flores moved abroad at 13.  Sali moved away when he was 11.

[dyslexic nam]

16 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

 

 

These are strange takes, imo.  I think in order to "lose" something it had to be possible to win it in the first place.  I don't think that's true in all these cases:

Flores - If anyone really believed that he was really ever choosing between Canada and Mexico, then they didn't have a good account of what was going on.  He would only have been ours if Mexico turned him down.

Kadioglu - He never minced words with regards to Canada.  We were always third choice (at best).

Sali - I don't think it's good for the long term future of the program if we start capping 16 year-olds.  And from what the father says, Canada was a distant second to Romania.

Tomori - We just passed the six-year anniversary of Tomori leaving, so I don't really know why he's on this list.

Yankov - That one hurts.  He would've been good.

Marmoush - Was never going to play for Canada.  Never.

Mitrovic would be a tough loss because he should be ours and that would be a failure if he isn't.  Not sure I could say the same for any of the above.

I would be as pessimistic as everyone else here if we knew that we didn't try for any of these guys.  But we have confirmed reports of lobbying for Flores, Kadioglu and Yankov.  There is also unconfirmed reports for Sali.

Further to that, there's been more than just Ugbo and Akinola. In the recent past, we've brought in Gutierrez, Singh, Corbeanu, and Sturing from other programs.  Not to mention the prospects of Bunbury or Dias.  Compare that with the players that were "lost" that were legitimate candidates to join Canada (and not just pipe dreams), I personally still think we're up, but just barely if Mitrovic stays with Serbia.

 

While it pains me to admit this, I agree with you pretty much entirely and thought about posting something similar.

I do think the Tomori loss stings a bit and was one that we had a crack at, mainly because he is at significant risk of getting lost in the England pool and squandering his international future.  But most of these guys were never ours to begin with so hard to identify them as a loss.  Mitrovic seems to be a legitimate possibility so losing him would be tough - but I also agree that we can’t be held hostage by every half-talented teen who thinks he can prematurely leverage some skill and exposure into a World Cup appearance (#Flores).  

[El Hombre]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

That's a big IF in the case of Mitrovic, but less so with Flores. Seems like he just had is heart set on Mexico, which is fine. That's still a loss though, whereas Marmoush and Ferdi aren't as they were never, ever considering Canada (especially Marmoush). 

You can see the difference, no?

I was referring specifically to Flores.  There is not much more we could've done, which is why I have a hard time counting it as a "loss".  You can't lose something you never had.

I have already conceded that Mitrovic would be a loss.  What I disagree with is how everyone is keeping score.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, VinceA said:

If there hasn't been further contact maybe that's because the roster isn't finalized yet.

Interesting thought. Seemingly probable. I took it as no further contact because the roster is set and he is not on it. I never took it as no further contact, ever. That just wouldn't make sense when his stock is at an all time high.

I get the sense that Herdman really just wants his tight knit group from here on out. Who the F knows though. The roster may come out with Mitrovic on it and he rejects the Serbian call. Stranger things have happened.

One thing though, if he were filling out paperwork then you wouldn't expect the contact with the CSA to go cold. It would be the opposite.

[Obinna]

Just now, El Hombre said:

I was referring specifically to Flores.  There is not much more we could've done, which is why I have a hard time counting it as a "loss".  You can't lose something you never had.

I have already conceded that Mitrovic would be a loss.  What I disagree with is how everyone is keeping score.

If you want to think of it like that it's your call, but I don't see it that way. 

Flores in my mind was 70 mexico 30 Canada. To me that falls into a loss category, because 30 is enough to be "possible". 

Marmoush and Ferdi were literally 0. They were virtually not possible. We never lost out on them because they were never ours.

Flores was a covid cancellation away from attending a Jan camp. Conpletely different imo.

[Corazon]

9 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Singh chose us while in the midst of being called for TnT.  Two of Eustaquio's midfield teammates were in the March squad for Portugal, so I don't think its a given that he would never get a call.  

Yankov and Flores moved abroad at 13.  Sali moved away when he was 11.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to disagree with you at all.  I was just adding my opinion.  I know that Singh dropped out of T&T roster after he had a couple good games with TFC last season and was added to our Gold Cup Preliminary roster.  I am aware of that.  I was just adding that he is not good enough for Canada but yes, you're correct.  He backed out of T&T roster last year for an opportunity to join Canada's preliminary roster.

Eustaquio is also unique because I don't think anyone including himself would have imagined he would be joining Porto only a few years later.  Some of it has to do with his success at Pacos but some of his rise has definitely come from playing with Canada as well.  And I agree, that now he is on Porto, there is always an outside shot.  However, you're talking about Otavio and Vitinha who are both on the verge of large transfers to likely elite European teams.  He also may have believed he had the chance to represent Portugal for a couple games.  Maybe it was more important to him to anchor our midfield for the next decade instead.  Regardless, at the time of the switch he was very far from the Portugal national team program.

Yes, as I said, all of Yankov, Flores & Sali spent time growing up in Canada and played some youth soccer before heading overseas.  Mitrovic would fall under this same category if we do lose him.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Corazon

[RS]

On the one hand we have mountains of evidence that points to Herdman being meticulous in his approach to everything involved in the program.

On the other hand, we have a single tweet from the father of a dual national who has been called up to another country's youth teams.

So of course...

21 minutes ago, Shway said:

I will start believing that Herdman is living in the moment, and won't be around after the World Cup if things go his way.

 

[costarg]

28 minutes ago, Tyler55 said:

 

I don't like where this is going.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, RS said:

On the one hand we have mountains of evidence that points to Herdman being meticulous in his approach to everything involved in the program.

On the other hand, we have a single tweet from the father of a dual national who has been called up to another country's youth teams.

So of course...

 

You're right. Integrity and evidence is on the side of Herdman on this one. It could be that Mitrovic is just leaning Serbia because he is leaning Serbia, not because Herdman hasn't done enough. That would be out of character.

It also wouldn't add up that Herdman is not interested in the player given what he is doing on the field.

But Herdman has talked about character being important. I don't know Stef, nor do I know the father, but the tweets may suggest that character could be the issue.

Or again, maybe Stef is not as interested in Canada as he previously was.

And if there's no interest from the player, is that a loss? Well it depends (to go back to what @El Hombre and I were discussing). If he were previously interested but another country became more attractive despite our best efforts, I do think it's a loss for us debatably. If he was never ever interested at anypoint only then can we say for sure there was no loss because you can't losse what you never had.

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, costarg said:

I don't like where this is going.

I don't know. As much as Ivan can be outrageous I would like to think he flat out isn't lying here. We already did this with Mitrovic, kept him on a wider list and asked him to train.

Perhaps Ivan is lying by omission and the reason why he wasn't selected and the contact was dropped is because Stef won't fill in his paperwork. And without the paperwork he can train with Canada, but he can't play.

I can sense the Flores vibes here.

[JamboAl]

Call me naive but I think people panic too much about "losing" dual nationals.  You win some, you lose some.  We are in a different place now to when we lost Hargreaves, Begovic or JdG2.  If we got everyone people thought should be cap tied on this forum, we'd be calling 60 players into the squad.  And David, Davies, Eustaquio and even Borjan are dual nationals and we got them, sometimes in spite of ourselves.  I'm not going to panic about one kid who has potential...if he doesn't want to play for us, fine we move on.

[costarg]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You're right. Integrity and evidence is on the side of Herdman on this one. It could be that Mitrovic is just leaning Serbia because he is leaning Serbia, not because Herdman hasn't done enough. That would be out of character.

It also wouldn't add up that Herdman is not interested in the player given what he is doing on the field.

But Herdman has talked about character being important. I don't know Stef, nor do I know the father, but the tweets may suggest that character could be the issue.

Or again, maybe Stef is not as interested in Canada as he previously was.

And if there's no interest from the player, is that a loss? Well it depends (to go back to what @El Hombre and I were discussing). If he were previously interested but another country became more attractive despite our best efforts, I do think it's a loss for us debatably. If he was never ever interested at anypoint only then can we say for sure there was no loss because you can't losse what you never had.

Aren't Mitrovic and Corbeanu friends?  Or at least in contact if I remember correctly?  Perhaps seeing Theo's situation and lack of recent call up is contributing to the Mitrovic decision?  Kinda like a reverse Tomori, where he filed the transfer, got capped and never saw the field again?  Stefan is young, perhaps he just doesn't wanna commit too quickly, can't blame him if that's the case.  I'd fully support that. 

It's just the info in the tweets and lack of callups that are irking me. I just don't see how we ignore this guy this long.  We've invited others who've accomplished less, doesn't sound like we've officially ever invited Stefan.

[costarg]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

 I'm not going to panic about one kid who has potential...if he doesn't want to play for us, fine we move on.

That's exactly it, its not "one kid", we're talking several pro "kids" with lots of talent.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, costarg said:

Aren't Mitrovic and Corbeanu friends?  Or at least in contact if I remember correctly?  Perhaps seeing Theo's situation and lack of recent call up is contributing to the Mitrovic decision?  Kinda like a reverse Tomori, where he filed the transfer, got capped and never saw the field again?  Stefan is young, perhaps he just doesn't wanna commit too quickly, can't blame him if that's the case.  I'd fully support that. 

It's just the info in the tweets and lack of callups that are irking me. I just don't see how we ignore this guy this long.  We've invited others who've accomplished less, doesn't sound like we've officially ever invited Stefan.

They are having played youth soccer together in Ontario. Everything else you said sums my thoughts up well.

[zeelaw]

How about we just move this guy to World Soccer Sub-Forum, and if he plays for us, then we can bring it back.

Edited May 24, 2022 by zeelaw

[costarg]

1 minute ago, zeelaw said:

How about we just move this guy to World Soccer Sub-Forum, and if he plays for us, then we can bring it back.

Would do wonders for my mental health and productivity!

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, costarg said:

That's exactly it, its not "one kid", we're talking several pro "kids" with lots of talent.

Still the same to me.  I'm not worried about anyone who doesn't play for us by choice.  I want to know about those who choose to play for Canada.  We have gotten, and will get our fair share.