Alistair Johnston

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, A.D.I.D.A.S. said:

Yikes. Beyond from the scoreline, how's our boy been today? I'm not watching the game but I figure since 2 of Celtic's subs have been on the opposite wing from AJ, and he's still on at the 89th minute, I'm guessing he's been decent or just hasn't seen much action on his side??

App says he was taken off at ‘86 with an injury. Says it’s a day to forget for him. Not sure if it’s how he played or just the 7-1 scoreline. 

[Onelessstar]

11 minutes ago, Snowcrash said:

It's embarrassing. MLS would be more of a challenge to prepare him for the next WC than staying at Celtic. 

What's the score if TFC plays Dortmund??

[kacbru]

12 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

I did find the British media's fawning over Celtic's win against Slovan to be a bit much given the level of opposition they were playing.

This is why the new format really bothers me - you have a team hammer a minnow 5-1 and then that same team turns around and gets hammered 7-1 and counting.  And this is all supposed to be entertaining. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

11 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

When Dortmund start clicking they're as good as just about anyone, especially at home, that's part of what happened today... in addition to Celtic just not being on their level and having no real test of their ceiling on a week to week basis. They don't know how to cover gaps when they press because Kilmarnock F.C. can't pick through them, and they have no experience (or evidently, desire) to sit deep and defend.

I started watching this.  Adeyemi's goals in particular had some quality to them and they really got them on their way.  The fact he had room to take them might be the criticism.  

[costarg]

16 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I’ve heard Celtic compared to a very high end championship team/yo yo club. There have been many professional FM “Celtic and Rangers in the EPL” simulations, and typically, Celtic end up getting relegated directly and make it back up every few years. Whether that would happen in real life or not, I don’t know, but I think they’re lower than mid table top league club. Considering where our other players like Laryea, Kone, etc. moved, I think if it wasn’t Celtic, championship teams were probably around the quality of club that wanted him.

Yes, Celtic and Rangers might slot it in at Championship level.   But then again, a team in the Championship is playing in a very tough league vs very hungry opponents week in/out which cannot be said for Celtic and Rangers.  Their competition is just not at a decent competitive level.  There are easy games in SPL, same cannot be said about the Championship.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 minutes ago, kacbru said:

This is why the new format really bothers me - you have a team hammer a minnow 5-1 and then that same team turns around and gets hammered 7-1 and counting.  And this is all supposed to be entertaining. 

If you have a problem with the system (and I do), not sure this is where to look.

For years there were top seeded clubs playing lower seeded clubs and there were many big margins.

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, kacbru said:

This is why the new format really bothers me - you have a team hammer a minnow 5-1 and then that same team turns around and gets hammered 7-1 and counting.  And this is all supposed to be entertaining. 

And if they win against Dinamo Zagreb later in the Group Stage and maybe 1 or 2 draws, Celtic probably advance anyways

Edited Tuesday at 09:13 PM by narduch

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, kacbru said:

This is why the new format really bothers me - you have a team hammer a minnow 5-1 and then that same team turns around and gets hammered 7-1 and counting.  And this is all supposed to be entertaining. 

You'd figure they'd realize you have to play a defensive game and bunker to eek out a point. But when do they ever do that in Scotland? They're always attacking. 

It's either admirable or dead naive. Didn't watch but that's embarrassing and bothers me that's the setup Johnston is so enamoured with. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

22 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I’ve heard Celtic compared to a very high end championship team/yo yo club. There have been many professional FM “Celtic and Rangers in the EPL” simulations, and typically, Celtic end up getting relegated directly and make it back up every few years. Whether that would happen in real life or not, I don’t know, but I think they’re lower than mid table top league club. Considering where our other players like Laryea, Kone, etc. moved, I think if it wasn’t Celtic, championship teams were probably around the quality of club that wanted him.

From what I recall, AJ was the first “big” transfer from our 22 WCQ bunch- I think at the time, fewer teams were willing to trust Canadian players to perform; I think he would get a better transfer today if the situation repeated itself.

I think he could make a move not unlike his predecessor, Juranovic did. Skipping the European games and just playing a strong 40 game schedule and making an honest cup run would do better than slicing up the domestic league and getting absolutely torn up in Europe. 

I think if you give them Premier League TV money, with their fanbase, they do better than that. 

As much as it pains me to say it. 

[Lansdude]

16 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I started watching this.  Adeyemi's goals in particular had some quality to them and they really got them on their way.  The fact he had room to take them might be the criticism.  

Definitely true but Dortmund's finishing was amazing today as well. Bit of both.

[InglewoodJack]

12 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I think if you give them Premier League TV money, with their fanbase, they do better than that. 

As much as it pains me to say it. 

Yes, I mean Celtic, with their crowd and fanbase, if they had TV money, they’d qualify for champions league out of the premier league, that I am certain. But in terms of the current quality of the clubs, I think playing for Celtic and playing for say, Burnley or Leeds is probably not too dissimilar. Championship matches are probably harder, but probably tougher travel in Scotland, the European stuff, and also just being part of a club that mass produces titles is always good. 

[Snowcrash]

40 minutes ago, Onelessstar said:

What's the score if TFC plays Dortmund??

So you're comparing TFC with Celtic?  How would Hamilton Forge fare against Dortmund?  I don't know about the final score but it's be boys against men for all three teams. 

[Obinna]

I didn't watch but so take this with a grain of salt but......maybe this was just a matter of Dortmund finally clicking and just taking their domestic frustrations out on Celtic? 

Dortmund had been struggling in the Bundesliga and Celtic have been unstoppable dating all the way back to pre-season where they were beating the likes of Man City (and Chelsea?).

Celtic were eventually going to stumble and Dortmund were eventually going to figure it out, maybe both of those eventualities converged here?

Celtic being compared to a yo-yo EPL-Championship club is probably right, but I would like to think they are closer to bottom EPL than a top Championship team. Splitting hairs? Perhaps, but there are some good international players at Celtic, Johnston included. There are some good international players in the Championship too, but player-for-player Celtic are probably more comparable to a bottom level prem team, although to @costarg's point they aren't having to grind out results every week like teams such as Leeds, Burnley and West Brom, so maybe a lack of sharpness was responsible for today. Or, maybe this was a freak result?

Let's see how Celtic fare in their remaining matches. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I saw Celtic lose 2-1 to Barça at Camp Nou 12 years ago, so it can be done. Samaras scored first and two guys now at Inter Miami got the tie and winner. This Celtic is just ill prepared. That Celtic beat Barça at home that group stage too.. We're not talking about any conditions back then that were any easier. 

[gwsmith63]

A Scottish team won in Dortmund fairly recently. 

[Snowcrash]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I didn't watch but so take this with a grain of salt but......maybe this was just a matter of Dortmund finally clicking and just taking their domestic frustrations out on Celtic? 

Dortmund had been struggling in the Bundesliga and Celtic have been unstoppable dating all the way back to pre-season where they were beating the likes of Man City (and Chelsea?).

Celtic were eventually going to stumble and Dortmund were eventually going to figure it out, maybe both of those eventualities converged here?

Celtic being compared to a yo-yo EPL-Championship club is probably right, but I would like to think they are closer to bottom EPL than a top Championship team. Splitting hairs? Perhaps, but there are some good international players at Celtic, Johnston included. There are some good international players in the Championship too, but player-for-player Celtic are probably more comparable to a bottom level prem team, although to @costarg's point they aren't having to grind out results every week like teams such as Leeds, Burnley and West Brom, so maybe a lack of sharpness was responsible for today. Or, maybe this was a freak result?

Let's see how Celtic fare in their remaining matches. 

Whether Celtic are lower Premiership or contending Championship is not dissimilar to debating how the team would fare in the Bundesliga or La Liga because at the end of the day, it's like discussing science fiction because it'll never happen.   That said, the relevant discussion is the level of compete that Johnston gets to experience week in and week out and for WC preparation, Championship or bottom table Ligue 1 or Serie A, is a big step above Celtic. 

[Onelessstar]

23 minutes ago, Snowcrash said:

So you're comparing TFC with Celtic?  How would Hamilton Forge fare against Dortmund?  I don't know about the final score but it's be boys against men for all three teams. 

You were comparing Celtic to MLS.... TFC being the easiest comparison. 

[Snowcrash]

1 minute ago, Onelessstar said:

You were comparing Celtic to MLS.... TFC being the easiest comparison. 

Ok, that's a valid point but just as Johnston needed to get out of MLS, he needs to get out of the Scottish Premiership to play against better competition and I think he can land somewhere in the Championship or low table Ligue 1 team. They won't play in Europe but over the course of the season, he'll be playing against much better competition. 

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Onelessstar said:

What's the score if TFC plays Dortmund??

What about if the Whitecaps played Manchester City? What would the score line be then?

[kacbru]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If you have a problem with the system (and I do), not sure this is where to look.

For years there were top seeded clubs playing lower seeded clubs and there were many big margins.

Yes, but they were less frequent.  E.g. in all of the the group stage last year, there were 4 games decided by 4 or more goals in 72 groups stage games (5.5% of games).  There have been 8 already in the new format in 27 games! (29.6% of games)

[Unnamed Trialist]

29 minutes ago, Snowcrash said:

Ok, that's a valid point but just as Johnston needed to get out of MLS, he needs to get out of the Scottish Premiership to play against better competition and I think he can land somewhere in the Championship or low table Ligue 1 team. They won't play in Europe but over the course of the season, he'll be playing against much better competition. 

No one is going from Scotland to La Liga, because you're not ready. Not  passing skills, not positioning, not football nous. Or if you were , you wouldn't get looked at. But his predecessor went to Union Berlin, and EPL will look at it, so those are fine options. 

Important thing for us, Canada, is we're better than Celtic and are competitive even against the best rivals out there.

I happen to believe Johnston could adjust to the Liga because he's smart. But then if you compare with the Mallorca fullbacks, for me Mojica and Maffei are better. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

32 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

What about if the Whitecaps played Manchester City? What would the score line be then?

We played them a while back and it took a Wright-Philips winner late to decide it. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

10 minutes ago, kacbru said:

Yes, but they were less frequent.  E.g. in all of the the group stage last year, there were 4 games decided by 4 or more goals in 72 groups stage games (5.5% of games).  There have been 8 already in the new format in 27 games! (29.6% of games)

Trying to make any statistical point about anything after a grand total of 8 of anything happened is really dicey.  No?

Adding teams  - full stop - is going to lead to a greater variance.  That's not a format thing. 

Edited Tuesday at 10:51 PM by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[kacbru]

8 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Trying to make any statistical point about anything after a grand total of 8 of anything happened is really dicey.  No?

Adding teams  - full stop - is going to lead to a greater variance.  That's not a format thing. 

Excuse me?  I stated I'm not a fan of the new format because of the # of uncompetitive games.  You responded that I was wrong, it has always been the case.  I pointed out that there have been 8 already in a fraction of the games and you tell me there is nothing to see here.

Next time I have a thought, I'll try and run it by you for approval first.

[Treppy2]

1 hour ago, Snowcrash said:

So you're comparing TFC with Celtic?  How would Hamilton Forge fare against Dortmund?  I don't know about the final score but it's be boys against men for all three teams. 

Today it was Bhoys against men. 😉