narduch Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 41 minutes ago, BearcatSA said: Kristian Jack? KJ worked for the CPL though. Not One Soccer (Mediapro). If people already knew this was coming they still tried to make it look like everything was going on as usual. The content One Soccer produced right up to the announcement would make you believe everything was normal. The first real sign was probably Josh Demming pushing his personal YouTube channel again. Edited January 29 by narduch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 45 minutes ago, BearcatSA said: Kristian Jack? I just assumed it was a contractual thing. He gave them a go, on the cheap as it were, and when time for renewal arrived certain things which may have been implied didn't happen and he said fu'k it. Not such an unusual tale these days across many of the trades. In hindsight however...maybe more to it than meets the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 10 hours ago, Trois Reds said: Doesn't Westjet fly all teams to and from their games as part of their sponsorship deal? And didn't they just re-sign with the CPL until 2027? Travel expenses are not the issue. If you used a bus, you'd still be paying the same for hotels. You'd still also be paying for the buses. No, they offer discounted tickets to CPL clubs and clubs are required to purchase from them. A former York United staffer who jumps on the discord said that airfare is a significant expense. It's no surprise that Noonan has publicly expressed the need for geographic conferences, and that's partly the urgency for expansion to 10 and 12. narduch, ray and Trois Reds 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Also worth noting is that when junior and minor league hockey teams travel by bus the players and coaches typically sleep on the bus to avoid the cost of hotel accommodation. This is the norm for teams that draw similar crowds to CanPL teams with many more home games available to generate revenue. It's one of the ways they avoid going $125 million in the hole over the first five years of operation by not being obsessed about the optics of being D1 and viewing themselves as a competitor of the NHL. Raven and Mango 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Woop there it is. I knew that sleeping on buses would come out as soon as someone mentioned hotels. Unnamed Trialist, CDNFootballer, BurndenAce and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trois Reds Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 6 hours ago, kacbru said: Woop there it is. I knew that sleeping on buses would come out as soon as someone mentioned hotels. Thais is why I blocked him. I guess when he goes on business trips he expects to sleep in the rental car. BurndenAce and narduch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Also worth noting is that when junior and minor league hockey teams travel by bus the players and coaches typically sleep on the bus to avoid the cost of hotel accommodation. This is the norm for teams that draw similar crowds to CanPL teams with many more home games available to generate revenue. It's one of the ways they avoid going $125 million in the hole over the first five years of operation by not being obsessed about the optics of being D1 and viewing themselves as a competitor of the NHL. We need someone to bring a sign to a game with the mention Ozzie_the_parrot = Joke Account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trois Reds said: Thais is why I blocked him. I guess when he goes on business trips he expects to sleep in the rental car. I’ll just say this I think the size of our country the distances between cities is tough when you are trying to start leagues like the CPL . It’s probably one of the reasons and not the only one I know , that many have tried in many sports over the years to establish coast to coast national leagues in many sports leagues but very few leagues have survived. In Europe especially , there are so many sports that have national leagues . We think soccer is king and it is but they have so many other sports from Volleyball to Basketball to Waterpolo to Rugby that national leagues exist in various sports . Here in Canada in terms of national sports leagues we basically have two one in soccer and one in Basketball . I believe that the sheer size of this country is a big part of the reason we don’t have many coast to coast leagues in any sport apart from a couple . In Europe you have many countries the size of southern Ontario where all you need is to rent a bus to get to a game and come right back after . If we have to eventually get to a regional type set up to move forward so that this league can survive so be it , better that than the alternative which is no league at all . Edited January 29 by SoccMan Trois Reds and yellowsweatygorilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 11 minutes ago, SoccMan said: I’ll just say this I think the size of our country the distances between cities is tough when you are trying to start leagues like the CPL . It’s probably one of the reasons and not the only one I know , that many have tried in many sports over the years to establish coast to coast national leagues in many sports leagues but very few leagues have survived. In Europe especially , there are so many sports that have national leagues . We think soccer is king and it is but they have so many other sports from Volleyball to Basketball to Waterpolo to Rugby that national leagues exist in various sports . Here in Canada in terms of national sports leagues we basically have two one in soccer and one in Basketball . I believe that the sheer size of this country is a big part of the reason we don’t have many coast to coast leagues in any sport apart from a couple . In Europe you have many countries the size of southern Ontario where all you need is to rent a bus to get to a game and come right back after . If we have to eventually get to a regional type set up to move forward so that this league can survive so be it , better that than the alternative which is no league at all . I can't see a regional league attracting even half the fans that we do now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 8 minutes ago, Aird25 said: I can't see a regional league attracting even half the fans that we do now You have an east west set up 8 or more in the west 8 or more in the east only play each other in the playoffs. Or also have one regular season game where each western team makes one trip a season to the east to play one game and vice versa for each team in the east . Moreover, you think attendance will be different because say an eastern team only gets a team from the east in the regular season ? Did we see York United gain in attendance over the last few years when a western team came to play ? I doubt an east west regional set up will have that much effect on attendance if any . It will still be a national league in the end just with mainly inter regional regular season games . We need to try something different if in the end the way it’s operating now is bringing on major expenses to the league . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 5 minutes ago, SoccMan said: You have an east west set up 8 or more in the west 8 or more in the east only play each other in the playoffs. Or also have one regular season game where each western team makes one trip a season to the east to play one game and vice versa for each team in the east . Moreover, you think attendance will be different because say an eastern team only gets a team from the east in the regular season ? Did we see York United gain in attendance over the last few years when a western team came to play ? I doubt an east west regional set up will have that much effect on attendance if any . It will still be a national league in the end just with mainly inter regional regular season games . We need to try something different if in the end the way it’s operating now is bringing on major expenses to the league . I think we will see less attendance because the perceived (and almost certainly actual) quality of play will be lower than it is now, and as such it will be viewed as lower profile than it is now. Also because every iteration of a regional league game I've attended in Canada has had considerably lower attendance, and revenue, than comparable CPL games do. Maybe it's different in Ontario, but many of these cities have had teams, and/or currently have teams, in regional leagues that haven't come close to drawing the same attention. I think it would need to be a hell of a marketing accomplishment to make fans see it as a national league if they only play teams from part of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 12 minutes ago, SoccMan said: ...We need to try something different if in the end the way it’s operating now is bringing on major expenses to the league . Have to wonder how close the league has to come to folding before some of these guys will finally grasp that the current economic model is not sustainable. If 4500 was the crowd number needed for the Valour to be sustainable in Wade Miller's eyes while Mediapro were paying the production costs plus a $6 million rights fee what's it going to be now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Aird25 said: I think we will see less attendance because the perceived (and almost certainly actual) quality of play will be lower than it is now, and as such it will be viewed as lower profile than it is now. Also because every iteration of a regional league game I've attended in Canada has had considerably lower attendance, and revenue, than comparable CPL games do. Maybe it's different in Ontario, but many of these cities have had teams, and/or currently have teams, in regional leagues that haven't come close to drawing the same attention. I think it would need to be a hell of a marketing accomplishment to make fans see it as a national league if they only play teams from part of the country. When I say regional league I just mean playing in your conference until the playoffs or like I said maybe each team plays just one team from the other conference once , therefore, for example each team in each conference makes one trip outside their conference to play one team . Therefore, no crossing the country 3 or 4 times during the regular season as is now . Call me stupid but even an idiot like me can see money being saved in such a set up . The wages would still be the same , the league is still the CPL just with a bit of a different structure during the regular season. If it grows from there then maybe go back to the way it is now or just keep it like that if it works . The MLS more or less does this now with each team basically playing the vast majority of their games within their conferences. Edited January 29 by SoccMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Aird25 said: I think we will see less attendance because the perceived (and almost certainly actual) quality of play will be lower than it is now, and as such it will be viewed as lower profile than it is now. Also because every iteration of a regional league game I've attended in Canada has had considerably lower attendance, and revenue, than comparable CPL games do. Maybe it's different in Ontario, but many of these cities have had teams, and/or currently have teams, in regional leagues that haven't come close to drawing the same attention. I think it would need to be a hell of a marketing accomplishment to make fans see it as a national league if they only play teams from part of the country. MLS, and (I think) every major professional league on the continent has conferences? I think as long as it gets marketed properly, and you have enough teams so it doesn't feel like you're playing the same teams every week, it'll at least be the same as what we have. There's just no comparables in terms of leagues that operate with our geography. The closest is Australia, and even then they have clusters of teams, with almost all within an area equivalent to the Quebec-GTA corridor. Same with China, with most teams on their East Coast, Russia on their Eastern third (equivalent to Ontario + Quebec). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, Aird25 said: I think we will see less attendance because the perceived (and almost certainly actual) quality of play will be lower than it is now, and as such it will be viewed as lower profile than it is now. Also because every iteration of a regional league game I've attended in Canada has had considerably lower attendance, and revenue, than comparable CPL games do. Maybe it's different in Ontario, but many of these cities have had teams, and/or currently have teams, in regional leagues that haven't come close to drawing the same attention. I think it would need to be a hell of a marketing accomplishment to make fans see it as a national league if they only play teams from part of the country. What you say is definitely true, but it is peculiar. Ontario now has 15 million people, more than Belgium, Portugal, Greece, Sweden and almost as many as Holland, but it's difficult to see an Ontario-only pro league of any kind ever being successful. North Americans just won't pay for anything they don't see as the 'big leagues'. All of those countries have multiple professional leagues in various sports. They don't all pay a lot, but people are making at least as good a living as CPL'ers in many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 minute ago, Cicero said: What you say is definitely true, but it is peculiar. Ontario now has 15 million people, more than Belgium, Portugal, Greece, Sweden and almost as many as Holland, but it's difficult to see an Ontario-only pro league of any kind ever being successful. North Americans just won't pay for anything they don't see as the 'big leagues'. All of those countries have multiple professional leagues in various sports. They don't all pay a lot, but people are making at least as good a living as CPL'ers in many of them. L1O is a pretty good league and I know the new Premier Division will be very good footy but some of those teams don't get a dozen or two people out to matches. It's tough sledding if you're not perceived as a professional or top-flight sport. I'm curious to see how the top division L1O develops, especially if there's more motivated ownership groups looking to be more professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 21 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said: I think as long as it gets marketed properly, and you have enough teams so it doesn't feel like you're playing the same teams every week, it'll at least be the same as what we have. I strongly disagree, but who knows. I still don't see how you're going to get enough owners to support a team that plays across even half the country. TSS Rovers had to fundraise for one game against a Calgary team, and they had a soldout stadium and it was a massive occasion for them. Edited January 29 by Aird25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsweatygorilla Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 13 minutes ago, Aird25 said: I strongly disagree, but who knows. I still don't see how you're going to get enough owners to support a team that plays across even half the country. TSS Rovers had to fundraise for one game against a Calgary team, and they had a soldout stadium and it was a massive occasion for them. I think CFL shows that Canadians aren't inherently opposed to conferences? And we'd be over the moon if we got even half of CFL attendances. That said, if you're right, I am worried we're stuck. If that's the case, I worry it's just impossible to have a Canadian pro soccer league then with our geography. The best case scenario then would be for CPL clubs to join USL and play within their two conferences (again, not saying I want this ... just saying I rather have that than have no pro football outside of MLS in this country). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Aird25 said: I strongly disagree, but who knows. I still don't see how you're going to get enough owners to support a team that plays across even half the country. TSS Rovers had to fundraise for one game against a Calgary team, and they had a soldout stadium and it was a massive occasion for them. They didn't fundraise (though they constantly put out the call for people to buy tickets) and they didn't sell out (2k attendance. Swangard is about 5k with standing). But it was a big occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) North America as a whole and Canada is no different for me is just a strange place when it comes to pro sports . You hardly get more than one team representing a city . In Europe and especially in England you can have multiple pro teams representing a city. There are neighbourhoods in a city like London for example that have teams . It would be like in Toronto having say Leaside having an NHL team playing against Willowdale in the NHL that’s basically what London is like with their soccer teams . I just wonder why this developed in England and in other places in Europe but not here in North America ? Every thing here is mainly one team from each city against another cities only team . I think for me is what makes especially soccer so unique in Europe especially where you can have cities with multiple teams . Travel through London and you can lose count to how many soccer stadiums you come across from teams representing neighbourhoods in various leagues in the English pyramid simply a beautiful thing that here in North America we have nothing that compares . The poor soul here in North America who only follows North American pro sports has no clue about this lol . Edited January 29 by SoccMan Kadenge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 20 minutes ago, SoccMan said: North America as a whole and Canada is no different for me is just a strange place when it comes to pro sports . You hardly get more than one team representing a city . In Europe and especially in England you can have multiple pro teams representing a city. There are neighbourhoods in a city like London for example that have teams . It would be like in Toronto having say Leaside having an NHL team playing against Willowdale in the NHL that’s basically what London is like with their soccer teams . I just wonder why this developed in England and in other places in Europe but not here in North America ? Every thing here is mainly one team from each city against another cities only team . I think for me is what makes especially soccer so unique in Europe especially where you can have cities with multiple teams . Travel through London and you can lose count to how many soccer stadiums you come across from teams representing neighbourhoods in various leagues in the English pyramid simply a beautiful thing that here in North America we have nothing that compares . The poor soul here in North America who only follows North American pro sports has no clue about this lol . Because in NA you have the "Big 4" sports, plus soccer, plus college sports, plus minor league sports. So the number of pro sports in a city is probably comparable to the number of pro sports in the big European cities, it's just spread across more sports. And of course, those "big 4 plus MLS" also grant territorial rights to the team in an area. If they didn't, you'd certainly have more than one NHL team in Toronto, for instance. Edited January 29 by Watchmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 15 minutes ago, Watchmen said: Because in NA you have the "Big 4" sports, plus soccer, plus college sports, plus minor league sports. So the number of pro sports in a city is probably comparable to the number of pro sports in the big European cities, it's just spread across more sports. And of course, those "big 4 plus MLS" also grant territorial rights to the team in an area. If they didn't, you'd certainly have more than one NHL team in Toronto, for instance. Yes but there is no comparison to place like London and some other places in Europe where neighbourhoods have pro teams lol . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Watchmen said: They didn't fundraise (though they constantly put out the call for people to buy tickets) and they didn't sell out (2k attendance. Swangard is about 5k with standing). But it was a big occasion. https://offer.fevo.com/tss-rovers-fundraiser-canchamp-round-2-354b3d0?fbclid=IwAR379HEzAUBzjShHKBfd3Iorqxr_f-xi9e68HfKTfnn93imdHsw4eMSCFFk&fevoUri=tss-rovers-fundraiser-canchamp-round-2-354b3d0%2F Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 minutes ago, Aird25 said: https://offer.fevo.com/tss-rovers-fundraiser-canchamp-round-2-354b3d0?fbclid=IwAR379HEzAUBzjShHKBfd3Iorqxr_f-xi9e68HfKTfnn93imdHsw4eMSCFFk&fevoUri=tss-rovers-fundraiser-canchamp-round-2-354b3d0%2F That's round 2, for their trip to Pacific and where travel costs were covered by Pacific. So, not sure what they were fundraising for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 minute ago, Watchmen said: That's round 2, for their trip to Pacific and where travel costs were covered by Pacific. So, not sure what they were fundraising for. That's almost worse for hopes of 8 more teams able to compete in a regional league. I recall there was a big hoopla that they were responsible for paying the costs for the travelling team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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