The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[InglewoodJack]

If all rumours are true, the additional cost incurred by Bayern by buying Hernandez and selling Davies would be about €20M which is more or less the difference between what Davies is asking and being offered across a typical 4 or 5 year contract. If Bayern move off Davies, it won’t be for cost, it will be for a player they think will fit better in Kompany’s system. They won’t save money by selling Davies. 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

If all rumours are true, the additional cost incurred by Bayern by buying Hernandez and selling Davies would be about €20M which is more or less the difference between what Davies is asking and being offered across a typical 4 or 5 year contract. If Bayern move off Davies, it won’t be for cost, it will be for a player they think will fit better in Kompany’s system. They won’t save money by selling Davies. 

 

As per Plettenberg, it was Kompany's appointment that reignited the talks. 

Also see, from the same source, that Bayern are open to selling Koman. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

As per Plettenberg, it was Kompany's appointment that reignited the talks. 

Also see, from the same source, that Bayern are open to selling Koman. 

He's been rumoured for Barça, part of the Hansi Flick mill clicking in.

Here's a new twist I read on a Real Madrid new site, unofficial: they renew his contract at Bayern and then sell him to Madrid. Meaning, he does not hold out until next year to go on a free, and in return, they let him go now for what they think he's worth. Just what is the logic in that then?

Edited June 5 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's been rumoured for Barça, part of the Hansi Flick mill clicking in. Kimmich too. Keep Lewandowski, that kind of shit. 

Davies has to be clearer what he wants. Expect teams to pay 50 million AND give him an elite salary, does not work that way for ostensibly left backs. 

We really have no idea what he wants, we have a bunch of journos filtering, sometimes making up (like those that said the deal was done with Real) what his agent is doing in negotiations. 

And wants and bargaining postions not the same thing. 

[InglewoodJack]

24 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

As per Plettenberg, it was Kompany's appointment that reignited the talks. 

Also see, from the same source, that Bayern are open to selling Koman. 

It's good that Kompany wanted him. I just don't buy that Bayern are in a position to sell Davies because they think he's asking for too much money. His replacement will most certainly cost Bayern a lot more. If Kompany wants him, Bayern's most cost effective solution is to pay Davies whatever he wants. If he plays for Madrid next season, it will solely be because that's what he wants and Bayern are willing to take a 20M haircut to avoid having a dead man walking as their LB for this upcoming "turning it around" season.

Still like Madrid as the best destination, but I've always had a big soft spot for the Bundesliga, and the idea of Davies spending his career there and winning one or two champions league titles instead of the 11 he'd win at Madrid does appeal to me as a fan. Davies was effectively a winger for Bayern since like March, so especially if the intention is to take that experiment to its conclusion, I would not be unhappy if he stays with them by any means.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

It's good that Kompany wanted him. I just don't buy that Bayern are in a position to sell Davies because they think he's asking for too much money. His replacement will most certainly cost Bayern a lot more. If Kompany wants him, Bayern's most cost effective solution is to pay Davies whatever he wants. If he plays for Madrid next season, it will solely be because that's what he wants and Bayern are willing to take a 20M haircut to avoid having a dead man walking as their LB for this upcoming "turning it around" season.

Still like Madrid as the best destination, but I've always had a big soft spot for the Bundesliga, and the idea of Davies spending his career there and winning one or two champions league titles instead of the 11 he'd win at Madrid does appeal to me as a fan. Davies was effectively a winger for Bayern since like March, so especially if the intention is to take that experiment to its conclusion, I would not be unhappy if he stays with them by any means.

If they are happy with what Mendy has done recently (and they should be) not sure Real is where he wants to be.

He needs to be going in as a clear starter. We want him playing.

All based on speculation but also feels like there is a better chance at him moving up the pitch at Bayern.

[Unnamed Trialist]

29 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If they are happy with what Mendy has done recently (and they should be) not sure Real is where he wants to be.

He needs to be going in as a clear starter. We want him playing.

All based on speculation but also feels like there is a better chance at him moving up the pitch at Bayern.

He wouldn't be behind Mendy, who's 30 and out of contract next summer. 

All they'd do is ask Carvajal to stop going forward on the right and scoring silly Champions League game winners, to help shore up the defence while Davies goes marauding.

[InglewoodJack]

26 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If they are happy with what Mendy has done recently (and they should be) not sure Real is where he wants to be.

He needs to be going in as a clear starter. We want him playing.

All based on speculation but also feels like there is a better chance at him moving up the pitch at Bayern.

Madrid aren't shy about not letting a good player prohibit them from bringing in a better one- they brought in Mbappe even though Bellingham as a fake striker makes them the best team in Europe. Ancelotti's whole thing with Madrid is to assemble all these hyper talented athletes and let them vibe out on the pitch which fits what Davies tries to do not only with Bayern, but especially with Canada, except with Madrid, he doesn't have to do it all on his own.

There probably isn't a worse club to go to if he wants to play forward than Madrid where they'll probably have the best left side in the world for the better part of the next decade (I think Endrick has also played LW in Brazil too). Selfishly, a big part of this whole transfer business, same with David and every other rumoured move, is that it's just fun to see these things happened. We've followed Bayern for quite some time, it could be fun to make Madrid games appointment watching every weekend for the next several years, especially since they're going to be the best club on earth for the next little while at least.

Bayern does offer a lot for Davies though. I think trophies there will be worth more than ones with Madrid, I think he's proven that he can play wing against elite opposition, and a few summer moves may give him a clear path to claim a spot on the wing permanently. My biggest concern with Bayern is how bought in the coaching staff is on him. Kompany does seem high on him, and if he sees what we see in him and wants to expand what Tuchel was trying with him over the last couple months of the season, then I'm for it. I think the article you shared mentioned that they believe Davies has another gear in him which is great to hear, since he's been around for so long that we forget that his prime technically starts ~next season, so despite his dip in form, he very much is still a player in development as crazy as it sounds.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Madrid aren't shy about not letting a good player prohibit them from bringing in a better one- they brought in Mbappe even though Bellingham as a fake striker makes them the best team in Europe. Ancelotti's whole thing with Madrid is to assemble all these hyper talented athletes and let them vibe out on the pitch which fits what Davies tries to do not only with Bayern, but especially with Canada, except with Madrid, he doesn't have to do it all on his own.

There probably isn't a worse club to go to if he wants to play forward than Madrid where they'll probably have the best left side in the world for the better part of the next decade (I think Endrick has also played LW in Brazil too). Selfishly, a big part of this whole transfer business, same with David and every other rumoured move, is that it's just fun to see these things happened. We've followed Bayern for quite some time, it could be fun to make Madrid games appointment watching every weekend for the next several years, especially since they're going to be the best club on earth for the next little while at least.

Bayern does offer a lot for Davies though. I think trophies there will be worth more than ones with Madrid, I think he's proven that he can play wing against elite opposition, and a few summer moves may give him a clear path to claim a spot on the wing permanently. My biggest concern with Bayern is how bought in the coaching staff is on him. Kompany does seem high on him, and if he sees what we see in him and wants to expand what Tuchel was trying with him over the last couple months of the season, then I'm for it. I think the article you shared mentioned that they believe Davies has another gear in him which is great to hear, since he's been around for so long that we forget that his prime technically starts ~next season, so despite his dip in form, he very much is still a player in development as crazy as it sounds.

They signed Mbappe for a lot of reasons but it meaning Bellingham is playing a more natural position is a very good one of them.  Not sure how you seem to put Bellingham in with "good" players, though, surely more than that.  They are going to be scary together. 

 

Maybe I am biased because who I supported my whole life and maybe a bit of English cynicism (and maybe because I always favoured Barcelona of the big Spanish 2) but there is a real hint of boredom in the back of my mind about supporting the absolute best team in the world.  There are other (political) reasons but supporting Alistair at Celtic is hard.     Woohoo, you won again, let me contain my joy.

 

But again if Davies is playing (and training) at Madrid it will be incredible for him and the program. 

 

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He wouldn't be behind Mendy, who's 30 and out of contract next summer. 

All they'd do is ask Carvajal to stop going forward on the right and scoring silly Champions League game winners, to help shore up the defence while Davies goes marauding.

You said and say that will the same conviction that you said the transfer was happening a few months ago.  Now it's not that clear cut.

I would say having seen him a few places Ancelotti knows he still need water-carriers amongst his talent.  Davies really struggled when Tuchel asked him to do that.  He is not going to sacrifice games because Davies is the bigger talent or because of contract stuff.

If he plays incredible, and if he is allowed to play more like plays with us, even more incredible. Do I think he has the chance to develop his leadership more at Bayern, probably. 

Edited June 5 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[InglewoodJack]

19 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

They signed Mbappe for a lot of reasons but it meaning Bellingham is playing a more natural position is a very good one of them.  Not sure how you seem to put Bellingham in with "good" players, though, surely more than that.  They are going to be scary together. 

 

Maybe I am biased because who I supported my whole life and maybe a bit of English cynicism (and maybe because I always favoured Barcelona of the big Spanish 2) but there is a real hint of boredom in the back of my mind about supporting the absolute best team in the world.  There are other (political) reasons but supporting Alistair at Celtic is hard.     Woohoo, you won again, let me contain my joy.

 

But again if Davies is playing (and training) at Madrid it will be incredible for him and the program.

To be clear, I think Jude is one of the best players on earth. Just that Madrid could run back the exact same roster and probably be (heavy) favourites to win the next champions league too. But, as he's not a striker, they went out and got the best one in the world which they don't actually need for footballing purposes. They don't need Davies- hell, they could sign Kobe Franklin and play him inverted and still win the treble next season. But his speed and his swagger, mixed with Vini's speed and swagger, mixed with Mbappe's speed and swagger, so on, that's just fun to watch.

I also prefer Barcelona (city + club) to Madrid and always have, though I think Madrid is a much better watch these past few years, and I do have a soft spot for sports teams that break their sport through pure distilled excellence with a roster where every player at every position is at the top of the game. My hockey, (previously) Baseball, and (national team) soccer teams have not had very much success in my life, but my basketball team is the Golden State Warriors, and this Madrid team is as close to peak Dubs as I've ever seen. The title race won't be entertaining, but watching the closest thing to a team developed in a lab to not only win titles but redefine how the game is played is something that will always interest me. Funny how things are now, Bayern here being the underdog compared to Madrid despite being one of the statistically most dominant sporting clubs in all of sports over the last decade and change.

Not to veer too off track, but watching Celtic is a hard watch- Scottish football is what it is, so watching every game is not always easy, and they get smoked in Europe every year. As a 94th generation Irishman myself, I take Celtic very seriously as the right and moral champions of scotland (side note to the side note: Adam Idah scored one against the Hun(garian)s yesterday- how appropriate), but I do hope Rangers can actually win themselves a title soon, because Celtic in Europa would be the first time in AJ's stint there where he's playing competitive games Celtic would need to win.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

To be clear, I think Jude is one of the best players on earth. Just that Madrid could run back the exact same roster and probably be (heavy) favourites to win the next champions league too. But, as he's not a striker, they went out and got the best one in the world which they don't actually need for footballing purposes. They don't need Davies- hell, they could sign Kobe Franklin and play him inverted and still win the treble next season. But his speed and his swagger, mixed with Vini's speed and swagger, mixed with Mbappe's speed and swagger, so on, that's just fun to watch.

I also prefer Barcelona (city + club) to Madrid and always have, though I think Madrid is a much better watch these past few years, and I do have a soft spot for sports teams that break their sport through pure distilled excellence with a roster where every player at every position is at the top of the game. My hockey, (previously) Baseball, and (national team) soccer teams have not had very much success in my life, but my basketball team is the Golden State Warriors, and this Madrid team is as close to peak Dubs as I've ever seen. The title race won't be entertaining, but watching the closest thing to a team developed in a lab to not only win titles but redefine how the game is played is something that will always interest me. Funny how things are now, Bayern here being the underdog compared to Madrid despite being one of the statistically most dominant sporting clubs in all of sports over the last decade and change.

Not to veer too off track, but watching Celtic is a hard watch- Scottish football is what it is, so watching every game is not always easy, and they get smoked in Europe every year. As a 94th generation Irishman myself, I take Celtic very seriously as the right and moral champions of scotland (side note to the side note: Adam Idah scored one against the Hun(garian)s yesterday- how appropriate), but I do hope Rangers can actually win themselves a title soon, because Celtic in Europa would be the first time in AJ's stint there where he's playing competitive games Celtic would need to win.

I grew up with Gretzky and the Oilers on one side and West Ham doing all they could to underachieve on the other.  You could add top level Edmonton CFL teams to that but then I picked the  New Orleans Saints 15 years before they won the Super Bowl (the 'Aints years) for some reason.

I get watching for the beauty of talent, (McDavid has made me watch a little hockey again recently) but the jeopardy of real loss and the joy of the opposite always seems to trump that for me.  Maybe why MLS is hard sometimes for me, beyond cheering for individuals.

 

That said, I respect Messi massively  and am glad he is growing the game but he's not on my team or even on one of the teams I would favour and I would not go out of my way to watch him.  

[Kadenge]

Not sure if this was discussed but was Davies' goal vs Real Madrid the best goal ever scored by a player for the Senior CMNT?  1. It was vs RM and only the 2nd Cdn to score against them (JDG was the first) 2. It was in the Semis of the UCL and 3. It was a golazo. Marcel De Jong had a beauty vs Ghana but it was a friendly. Given the quality of the opponent, the stage and the strike, I'm guessing it is the #1???

[h coach]

26 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Not sure if this was discussed but was Davies' goal vs Real Madrid the best goal ever scored by a player for the Senior CMNT?  1. It was vs RM and only the 2nd Cdn to score against them (JDG was the first) 2. It was in the Semis of the UCL and 3. It was a golazo. Marcel De Jong had a beauty vs Ghana but it was a friendly. Given the quality of the opponent, the stage and the strike, I'm guessing it is the #1???

Gabe Gala…

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

33 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Not sure if this was discussed but was Davies' goal vs Real Madrid the best goal ever scored by a player for the Senior CMNT?  1. It was vs RM and only the 2nd Cdn to score against them (JDG was the first) 2. It was in the Semis of the UCL and 3. It was a golazo. Marcel De Jong had a beauty vs Ghana but it was a friendly. Given the quality of the opponent, the stage and the strike, I'm guessing it is the #1???

Not sure it's the best goal he has scored when he was with the CMNT.

Edited June 6 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[jordan]

33 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Not sure if this was discussed but was Davies' goal vs Real Madrid the best goal ever scored by a player for the Senior CMNT?  1. It was vs RM and only the 2nd Cdn to score against them (JDG was the first) 2. It was in the Semis of the UCL and 3. It was a golazo. Marcel De Jong had a beauty vs Ghana but it was a friendly. Given the quality of the opponent, the stage and the strike, I'm guessing it is the #1???

Hastings vs Mexico for me.

[dyslexic nam]

16 minutes ago, jordan said:

Hastings vs Mexico for me.

Some of the WCQ goals were pretty awesome (Larin’s brace against Mexico at Iceteca will forever be special for me since I was there and it was such a huge moment in the evolution of Canadian soccer) but the Hastings goal was unique.  A golden goal to be champions of CONCACAF - at a time when that sort of result against Mexico was pretty much unheard of. 

[El Diego]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Some of the WCQ goals were pretty awesome (Larin’s brace against Mexico at Iceteca will forever be special for me since I was there and it was such a huge moment in the evolution of Canadian soccer) but the Hastings goal was unique.  A golden goal to be champions of CONCACAF - at a time when that sort of result against Mexico was pretty much unheard of. 

The game against Mexico was the quarter finals -- we still had to beat Trinidad and Tobago in the semis (Forrest saved a PK in that one). Once we beat T&T we were "CONCACAF champs" since Colombia made the finals, but we still beat them to officially win the Gold Cup.

Still crazy that that's the only time Mexico or USA didn't win the Gold Cup.

[dyslexic nam]

32 minutes ago, El Diego said:

The game against Mexico was the quarter finals -- we still had to beat Trinidad and Tobago in the semis (Forrest saved a PK in that one). Once we beat T&T we were "CONCACAF champs" since Colombia made the finals, but we still beat them to officially win the Gold Cup.

Still crazy that that's the only time Mexico or USA didn't win the Gold Cup.

I think that is the second time I have misremembered that event.  In fairness, I may have been drinking.   And by “may have” I mean “was”.  

[jordan]

6 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think that is the second time I have misremembered that event.  In fairness, I may have been drinking.   And by “may have” I mean “was”.  

Cheers 🍺 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

If we want to combine spectacular with a bit of importance, I'll put a mention in for his goal against Panama.

Helped us put a bad start behind us, technically the game winne,r and it was our first win against a good team in the Ocho (with apologies to El Salvador), not unfair to say it paved the way for Edmonton. 

I see the type he scored against Madrid semi-regularly to be honest.  But against Panama, the pace, the footwork on the line and still enough to finish is pretty rare.  

[GasPed]

13 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If we want to combine spectacular with a bit of importance, I'll put a mention in for his goal against Panama.

Helped us put a bad start behind us, technically the game winne,r and it was our first win against a good team in the Ocho (with apologies to El Salvador), not unfair to say it paved the way for Edmonton. 

I see the type he scored against Madrid semi-regularly to be honest.  But against Panama, the pace, the footwork on the line and still enough to finish is pretty rare.  

I agree.  The goal against Panama is something I actually doubt anyone else in the world would've scored.  And it was the winning goal in a high stakes game.

But in terms of significance, I might actually put his goal against Croatia above that one.  In fact that might be the most significant goal in CMNT history (or tied with Pakos v. Honduras)

Edited June 6 by GasPed
Maplebanana

[maplebanana]

2 hours ago, GasPed said:

I agree.  The goal against Panama is something I actually doubt anyone else in the world would've scored.  And it was the winning goal in a high stakes game.

But in terms of significance, I might actually put his goal against Belgium above that one.  In fact that might be the most significant goal in CMNT history (or tied with Pakos v. Honduras)

Oh, if only ... sigh...

(I assume you mean against Croatia)

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Any kids out there can translate this for grandpa?😜

 

[GasPed]

6 hours ago, maplebanana said:

Oh, if only ... sigh...

(I assume you mean against Croatia)

Whoops.  Fixed my post!  😅

[OhCanadaOhBaby]

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Any kids out there can translate this for grandpa?😜

 

If I had to guess, he's alluding to the fact that the talks in Munich the other day went well with his agent, and that Phonzie is going to get the money he wants. Also, that the extension will be announced soon, but I don't know how realistic that is. 

To be honest I don't know why Phonzie would even want to resign in Munich... no one there seems to be able to make up their mind if they love him or hate him. 

My personal opinion is that he should go somewhere where he will be given the least amount of defensive responsibility and can have the freedom to roam up and down the left wing as he pleases at wingback. Flick seems to be there only one who really extracted that TRUE two-way capability from him. Since then, the other managers have seemed to place a greater stress on the importance of him tucking in and defending more as opposed to stretching the wing to make up for a weaker backline.

I am not sure he will get the freedom he needs under Kompany, to be quite honest. His management is only concerned with his money at this point, I fear, and for that I worry about what is to come for the former World XI LB.