The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[GasPed]

38 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

None of those things are true though

Interesting that you would say that.  I would argue that paying €12m to sign a Tier 2 coach (a signing that was reluctantly approved by and has already been disavowed by the top brass of the Supervisory Board), after being turned down by at least 7 previous candidates would be evidence of all three things I said.  But (and perhaps this is your point), it is all relative.

Edited May 31 by GasPed

[InglewoodJack]

I don't think Bayern fans are particularly crazy. The craziest (in this sense, the dumbest) soccer fans are non-locals, and compared to the other super clubs out there, Bayern probably has the smallest international footprint, so their fans, and Bundesliga fans in general seem to be a lot more interested in the game than the drama vs., say Madrid/Barca, top 6 English, top Italian club fans. They're upset that a homegrown star is thinking about money during a poor season- that's reasonable.

As for Davies (Husoh?)'s salary demands, we keep framing this as a dumb agent trying to pull one over a massive club, but there's no chance the club doesn't have a hand in this at all. Bayern has very frequently said that they see Davies (And Musiala) and their future club faces. What has been said to him behind closed doors is obviously even more enticing- we know how it goes when the team pulls up the presentation about how he'll be on every billboard in Bavaria, he'll be one of the most decorated footballers of all time, they might've even shown him the exact spot in front of the stadium where his statue will be built in 2045. If he really is the face of Bayern, his request is in line with what their actual faces are being paid. Kane is at 25. Neuer is at 21, Muller is at 20.5, Sane 20, Kimmich at 19.5, Gnabry 18.9, Gorezka 18 , Koman 17, de Ligt at 16. The demand for 20M sounds insane, but when you re-frame it as "Davies is asking for Sane money", especially considering how contract sizes grow with every season, is that really insane? When Davies' new deal kicks in in 2025, Neuer, Muller, Sane, Kimmich will all be off the books, and the first two won't return, and the next two have been rumoured to leave as well. They will have money- the question is whether they will pay Davies as the player they tell him he is or not.

They're offering him 14M- that's not even as much as de Ligt is making, on a deal he signed two years ago, and he isn't exactly in the supposed Davies tier.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I cringe whenever I read things like "Davies demanded 20M a year".

No, this is what his agent is demanding for his client, and it irritates me that Bayern fans can't or won't make the distinction. More than his play this season (which took an upswing at the end), it's been the salary demands that fans use against Davies, as if it's not just games from the agent. 

Semi-related, I read that Lautaro Martinez, also in contract extension talks (with Inter) had to eventually intervene in the discussions between the club and his Spanish agent. The agent was demanding 14M from the club next season, rising to 16M the following season, while the club was offering 9.5M.

The player had step in and inform the club he was happy to extend for 9.5M.

I wonder if Bayern fans see that and hold Davies responsible for not showing the same alliegance. At the same time, the situation is different in many ways. Here's the thing for me:

I don't know the salary structure at Inter exactly, but Lautaro accepting 9.5M probably puts him near or at the top of the pile, which is exactly where he ranks in terms of importance to Inter, whereas with Davies accepting 14M, well it still keeps him behind 7 or 8 players. I guess you could argue 7-8 is exactly where he ranks in terms of importance to Bayern, but there's the little matter of Real Madrid relentless courting him for the better part of the year. That's an element not present in the Lautaro situation.

Anyways, Bayern fans really have soured me with their treatment of Davies. He deserves better and I hope he leaves. 

Lots of this is devil's advocate and Davies is the closest thing I have had for a while to hometown sporting hero but here goes.

If you look at it from Bayern's fan perspective, it has not been a great year and a bit, for the whole club in general but also for Davies himself. 

You always become suspect, either of the club or the player, when an important player gets to within a year without renewing.  If Davies has struggled some recently then you start to default towards the club.

Same with the money.  If he is playing worse (in their eyes) and demanding a lot more money, the mood will turn quickly. We never know the real truth of it all but Florian Plettenberg is using the 20m in an article saying that a renewal is possible.  I have have found him in the know before but maybe too close to Bayern?

I think it is a losing battle to try and seperate the agent demands from the player in cases like this.  If the player disagrees, they are the boss as you point out.  I have seen them fire agents in similar situation; a rare response but has happened. 

I guess we will see.

And hopefully he goes or stays where he will play. (And maybe has a road to playing further up)

Edited May 31 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[jhoops__]

Definitely dysfunctional…Hollywood FC still sticks

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Definitely dysfunctional…Hollywood FC still sticks

I think Germany lacks a real Hollywood or similar celebrity maker, so their biggest team and all its very imperfect to genuinely awful stars have been the tabloid-fodder for years. 

[GasPed]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

As for Davies (Husoh?)'s salary demands, we keep framing this as a dumb agent trying to pull one over a massive club, but there's no chance the club doesn't have a hand in this at all. Bayern has very frequently said that they see Davies (And Musiala) and their future club faces. What has been said to him behind closed doors is obviously even more enticing- we know how it goes when the team pulls up the presentation about how he'll be on every billboard in Bavaria, he'll be one of the most decorated footballers of all time, they might've even shown him the exact spot in front of the stadium where his statue will be built in 2045. If he really is the face of Bayern, his request is in line with what their actual faces are being paid. Kane is at 25. Neuer is at 21, Muller is at 20.5, Sane 20, Kimmich at 19.5, Gnabry 18.9, Gorezka 18 , Koman 17, de Ligt at 16. The demand for 20M sounds insane, but when you re-frame it as "Davies is asking for Sane money", especially considering how contract sizes grow with every season, is that really insane? When Davies' new deal kicks in in 2025, Neuer, Muller, Sane, Kimmich will all be off the books, and the first two won't return, and the next two have been rumoured to leave as well. They will have money- the question is whether they will pay Davies as the player they tell him he is or not.

They're offering him 14M- that's not even as much as de Ligt is making, on a deal he signed two years ago, and he isn't exactly in the supposed Davies tier.

So here's the latest narrative on that (at least what has been reported):  The Supervisory Board took a look at Bayern's salaries and decided they were way out of line and unsustainable (part of the reason they fired the previous Sporting Director, Hasan Salihamidžić, was his spendthrift ways apparently).  So then they hired Max Eberl, and gave him strict instructions to get salaries in line.  First up for renewal, Alphonso Davies.  Hence the lowball offer - not only is it in line with the new thinking of Bayern on salaries, but it's meant to send a message to all new signings and renewals.

At least that's the narrative.

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, GasPed said:

I can almost guarantee that Bayern fans completely conflate Huoseh's statements with Davies.  And tbf, that is what an agent is supposed to do - act and speak on behalf of their client.   That said, Huoseh has never said anything publicly about Davies' demands that I'm aware of.  Certainly the 20M has been tossed around in the media a lot, and Huoseh has never denied the number, but I suspect there's a lot of wiggle room there, especially since I doubt Madrid is offering anything close to that.

But back to the Bayern fans, like most fan bases there's a spectrum of folks.  Some are rabid "Don't even talk about another club you disloyal ingrate!  And btw, you're going take whatever we offer you and like it!", while some have a more balanced viewpoint.  At most big clubs, the fanbases skew more to the club than the player perspective.  That, plus the fact that this saga has gone on for a while and Davies hasn't had the greatest year, means the pitchforks and torches are out on most of the Bayern boards.  But, if he does end up extending, plays well, and the team does well, the tide will quickly change. 

I think that 20 million is exactly what Madrid is offering, which is why they're asking it of Bayern. Or maybe 18. Anyways, they had an idea from Madrid which they are using to leverage things with Bayern.

It also fits into what Madrid is paying other stars. I think we saw Alaba was at 23 million. 

They've taken the Kroos salary off their books, maybe Rodrygo, So I think they can afford someone else after paying Mbappe.

Edited June 1 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kadenge]

12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think that 20 million is exactly what Madrid is offering, which is why they're asking it of Bayern. Or maybe 18. Anyways, they had an idea from Madrid which they are using to leverage things with Bayern.

It also fits into what Madrid is paying other stars. I think we saw Alaba was at 23 million. 

They've taken the Kroos salary off their books, maybe Rodrygo, So I think they can afford someone else after paying Mbappe.

Isn't Modric leaving as well?

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:40 PM, Kadenge said:

Isn't Modric leaving as well?

You can tell I am answering as Madrid score in Champions that I am thrilled.

Modric just was given an extra year, after his contract was supposed to be up end of June. I don't know the terms but Modric was not the highest paid on the roster, a bunch were in a cluster between 18-25 million euros. 

He was bothered that he did not get the minutes, felt he was being relegated and at the start of the season was, also happened to not be playing so well. But he seems to have settled into a sub role, and at age 38 they say if he plays until early October he'll break the record for oldest player to wear a RM uniform. 

They get Kroos off the salaries, probably Militao, they may sell Rodrygo, so I think they have budget to take on a new salary apart from Mbappe. Then Modric clears up in a year. 

Edited June 2 by Unnamed Trialist

[GasPed]

11 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think that 20 million is exactly what Madrid is offering, which is why they're asking it of Bayern. Or maybe 18. Anyways, they had an idea from Madrid which they are using to leverage things with Bayern.

It also fits into what Madrid is paying other stars. I think we saw Alaba was at 23 million. 

They've taken the Kroos salary off their books, maybe Rodrygo, So I think they can afford someone else after paying Mbappe.

You could be right - I've seen speculative numbers anywhere between 10M and 20M.  Just speculation and planted rumours between any one of the three sides, so I don't know.

I will say too that the Bayern "we need to manage our budget better" story rings pretty hollow when they spend 12M to buy a manager from the Championship and then reportedly pay him 9M plus add-ons (making him top 6 in the world in manager's salaries).

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, GasPed said:

You could be right - I've seen speculative numbers anywhere between 10M and 20M.  Just speculation and planted rumours between any one of the three sides, so I don't know.

I will say too that the Bayern "we need to manage our budget better" story rings pretty hollow when they spend 12M to buy a manager from the Championship and then reportedly pay him 9M plus add-ons (making him top 6 in the world in manager's salaries).

 

I think salary management is fine, it is okay for a club to let players know there is some contention and agents should not go crazy. Probably, at Bayern, a left back with few goal contributions does not deserve 20 million euros a year.

About managers: I don't know what other managers make, apart from Simeone being the highest paid, but I am pretty sure Kompany is not top six. But maybe that is because Klopp resigned, Xavi is out, Allegri was fired, then Tuchel. But it'd be odd to pay Kompany the same as Tuchel. 

[GasPed]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

But it'd be odd to pay Kompany the same as Tuchel. 

Indeed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13483559/The-eye-watering-wages-Bayern-Munich-pay-new-manager-Vincent-Kompany-ex-Burnley-boss-set-make-2-6m-Julian-Nagelsmann.html

[Unnamed Trialist]

47 minutes ago, GasPed said:

Indeed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13483559/The-eye-watering-wages-Bayern-Munich-pay-new-manager-Vincent-Kompany-ex-Burnley-boss-set-make-2-6m-Julian-Nagelsmann.html

Weird. He hardly has experience at the top level, and what he has is poor. Just the fact he played Koleosho in the left makes me question his know-how.

Does anyone here believe Kompany is going to tell the club that Davies is in his plans and will be a key piece of his project?

Edited June 1 by Unnamed Trialist

[TGAA_Star]

On 5/31/2024 at 4:06 PM, GasPed said:

So here's the latest narrative on that (at least what has been reported):  The Supervisory Board took a look at Bayern's salaries and decided they were way out of line and unsustainable (part of the reason they fired the previous Sporting Director, Hasan Salihamidžić, was his spendthrift ways apparently).  So then they hired Max Eberl, and gave him strict instructions to get salaries in line.  First up for renewal, Alphonso Davies.  Hence the lowball offer - not only is it in line with the new thinking of Bayern on salaries, but it's meant to send a message to all new signings and renewals.

At least that's the narrative.

Which is why if I'm Davies, I go where the money is and Bayern lowballing on money is exactly why I would leave. At least if Davies goes to Real Madrid, he not only gets to play for an iconic manager in Ancelotti but he gets to play with some of the best players in the world and he at least ensures that he will be in the conversation when it comes to Champions League titles by joining Madrid.

[Canuckia]

On 5/31/2024 at 3:53 PM, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I think Germany lacks a real Hollywood or similar celebrity maker, so their biggest team and all its very imperfect to genuinely awful stars have been the tabloid-fodder for years. 

I think you're forgetting about David Hasselhoff.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

There was a full page on Davies in Sport today, on paper and here online, saying the interest of Real Madrid had cooled. 

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/real-madrid/davies-primer-reves-decimoquinta-103245678

The story was not so clear, however, it is a bit patchwork.

First, they said that Davies had a possibility of renewing for Bayern. Just as is said above, it appears to be at least on the table.

Then, that Bayern would otherwise cite the 70 million market value for Davies, thinking to get 50, but the real price a year from end of contract would be closer to 40 million euros.

From the Madrid perspective, that since Mendy was out of contract in summer of 2030 and would be 30, that could be the moment to go for Davies. Then they questioned whether they needed a LB, since they can get Girona LB Miguel Gutiérrez, formerly RM, just 22, who have a clause to rebuy him for 8 million. He had a strong year as did the entire Girona roster, but in fact he was voted onto the 15-man EA FC24 Liga Team of the Season.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There was a full page on Davies in Sport today, on paper and here online, saying the interest of Real Madrid had cooled. 

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/real-madrid/davies-primer-reves-decimoquinta-103245678

The story was not so clear, however, it is a bit patchwork.

First, they said that Davies had a possibility of renewing for Bayern. Just as is said above, it appears to be at least on the table.

Then, that Bayern would otherwise cite the 70 million market value for Davies, thinking to get 50, but the real price a year from end of contract would be closer to 40 million euros.

From the Madrid perspective, that since Mendy was out of contract in summer of 2030 and would be 30, that could be the moment to go for Davies. Then they questioned whether they needed a LB, since they can get Girona LB Miguel Gutiérrez, formerly RM, just 22, who have a clause to rebuy him for 8 million. He had a strong year as did the entire Girona roster, but in fact he was voted onto the 15-man EA FC24 Liga Team of the Season.

The last part is what the Catholic radio station said a couple weeks ago.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Mbappe signing was confirmed in the evening on Monday, signing for five years, he'll be presented in mid-July it seems, after the Euros. One reason could be that he is officially under contract at PSG until end of June.

So now that it's out of the way, we can start looking at other movements at the club. Kepa will go back to Chelsea, Lunin might decide he needs to be a starter, so they could be looking at keepers. 

Rodrygo might be sold if they feel he'll lose his role with Mbappe there. They need a midfielder to replace Kroos and maybe some coverage for Modric, creative high quality mids with leadership. 

But the biggest outlay, if it comes to that, would be Davies. True, it does not correspond to a clear need, but it does have to do with building for the future with players who can give them things down the road as well.

[InglewoodJack]

 

[Obinna]

53 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

 

Situation now puts the ball back in the player's court, it seems. 

-Accept the Bayern deal on the table, which locks him in and gives him a minor improvement on terms. 

-Decline the final deal, play out the final year of his current contract, then leave on a free next season (likely to Madrid).

No improved offer from Bayern. No desire (seemingly) for Madrid to pay over $50M for a player who'll be free next summer. It's interesting that Bayern are willing to risk losing $40M or so for Davies, when they could spend less than half of that to meet his contract demands. 

 

[jhoops__]

Holy shit one of ours with Los Blancos! I can’t even imagine…

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

I'll just leave this here for no reason.

 

[GasPed]

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

 

Romano's tweet basically contradicts Plettenberg's ("New discussions/fresh start" vs. "Same offer/take it or leave it").  I hate it when they do that. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Some more details from a longer article from Plettenberg (via Google translate)

https://sport.sky.de/fussball/artikel/der-status-quo-zwischen-alphonso-davies-und-dem-fc-bayern-muenchen/13148005/35313

New talks underway: Will Davies really stay at Bayern?

...

Kompany deposits request

With Vincent Kompany , Bayern have finally been able to sign a new coach and the 38-year-old Belgian has immediately expressed a wish: that Bayern extend Davies' contract!

That's why new talks have been going on between the club and management for a few days. Max Eberl and Christoph Freund are keen to extend Davies' contract. The talks are going well from Bayern's perspective and according to information from Sky, Davies and his management are now actually more positive about a contract extension than they were a few weeks ago. Also because both sides are coming closer together on the salary issue. The question is: are Bayern being used to get Real back on the agenda, or does Davies really want to extend his contract?

Davies should reach the next level

Kompany is confident that he can get Davies back on track after a weak season. And what's more, he can take the Canadian international (45 caps/15 goals) to the next level.

Conversely, Bayern would save themselves an expensive transfer. If Davies were to leave, they would probably have to pay over 60 million euros for their preferred successor Theo Hernandez (AC Milan/contract until 2026).

One person would be particularly pleased about the extension: Davies' friend Jamal Musiala ! Bayern's super talent told Sky : "Yes, I would be happy. He is a good friend of mine. It is always good to keep your friends around, but I haven't spoken to him for a few days and we never talk about contracts."