The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[El Diego]

4 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Is there a point where Bayern places a call to Wilfrid Nancy? Because if their net is being cast wide enough to consider the coach of a club that was just relegated, might as well check in on one of the best managers outside of Europe. Either you look like a genius, or you fire him as soon as Klopp becomes available. 

I know I am straying us further off topic here, but this just made me wonder if the Tanenbaum group does end up buying Saint-Etienne if they consider Nancy...

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

No. He's a great coach, but a no-name on that side of the Atlantic.

Bayern are on their what, 8th, 9th public rejection now? I know Kompany is a name, Bayern have also followed him since Anderlecht, but if they’re casting their net this wide, seriously looking at a guy with this little experience, they don’t have to widen their search by that much before they land on a guy like Nancy. Not that he’s likely, but some of the names being mentioned are pretty out there.

[Obinna]

27 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Bayern are on their what, 8th, 9th public rejection now? I know Kompany is a name, Bayern have also followed him since Anderlecht, but if they’re casting their net this wide, seriously looking at a guy with this little experience, they don’t have to widen their search by that much before they land on a guy like Nancy. Not that he’s likely, but some of the names being mentioned are pretty out there.

Not that I rate Kompany over Nancy, but hasn't Kompany managed since 2019, two years longer than Nancy?

At any rate, it's Bayern. Yes, it's remarkable they are approaching double digit rejections (or whatever). No, they are never going to consider Nancy right now. Again, great manager, but too small a name and too short a resume.

1 hour ago, El Diego said:

I know I am straying us further off topic here, but this just made me wonder if the Tanenbaum group does end up buying Saint-Etienne if they consider Nancy...

Now if this was 12 months from now, and Nancy had just guided St. Etienne to a Europa League place in their maiden season back in Ligue 1, then yeah I could see his name being tossed in the Bayern mix, but even then it would be a very unlikely scenario, imo.

[InglewoodJack]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Not that I rate Kompany over Nancy, but hasn't Kompany managed since 2019, two years longer than Nancy?

At any rate, it's Bayern. Yes, it's remarkable they are approaching double digit rejections (or whatever). No, they are never going to consider Nancy right now. Again, great manager, but too small a name and too short a resume.

That 2019 season he was player manager for about 10 games until he fired himself and came back the next season. Kompany has just finished his 4th season as a manager while Nancy is midway through his 4th. He also has been coaching since 2006. Here’s how both have done so far:

Anderlect: 4th twice, in his one UECL app he was bumped off before the group stages. The year he left they went to the semis. 
Burnley: 101 point championship season, next season they pretty much never left the relegation zone, get bounced months before the season is over.

 

Nancy in 4 seasons (with 18 total years of coaching experience):

- Wins the Canadian championship in ‘21

- makes it to champions league second round, 2nd in the east, 2nd round exit with Montreal in ‘22, lowest salary club in the league.

- goes to Columbus, immediately wins a title in ‘23

- in ‘24: took his team to champions league finals where he had a winnable match and a relatively viable path to a continental double. 

I’m not saying Nancy is a viable choice at all, but when you take his name out of it, Kompany is a guy who managed two mediocre Anderlecht teams, a dominant championship club and a historically poor premier league team. Nancy has won wherever he’s gone, no matter the hurdles, and frankly, no one who is still open to the Bayern gig seem to have any prestigious experience, so if the choice is between a rising MLS star or an okay European manager, it’s not a crazy question. Both have spent their careers managing leagues of relatively similar quality. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

30 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

That 2019 season he was player manager for about 10 games until he fired himself and came back the next season. Kompany has just finished his 4th season as a manager while Nancy is midway through his 4th. He also has been coaching since 2006. Here’s how both have done so far:

Anderlect: 4th twice, in his one UECL app he was bumped off before the group stages. The year he left they went to the semis. 
Burnley: 101 point championship season, next season they pretty much never left the relegation zone, get bounced months before the season is over.

 

Nancy in 4 seasons (with 18 total years of coaching experience):

- Wins the Canadian championship in ‘21

- makes it to champions league second round, 2nd in the east, 2nd round exit with Montreal in ‘22, lowest salary club in the league.

- goes to Columbus, immediately wins a title in ‘23

- in ‘24: took his team to champions league finals where he had a winnable match and a relatively viable path to a continental double. 

I’m not saying Nancy is a viable choice at all, but when you take his name out of it, Kompany is a guy who managed two mediocre Anderlecht teams, a dominant championship club and a historically poor premier league team. Nancy has won wherever he’s gone, no matter the hurdles, and frankly, no one who is still open to the Bayern gig seem to have any prestigious experience, so if the choice is between a rising MLS star or an okay European manager, it’s not a crazy question. Both have spent their careers managing leagues of relatively similar quality. 

Whether we think it's legit or not, Kompany made a lot of his juice being one  of the best defenders/captains in the world.  Has benefited enormously from that.

He went a little crazy even with his limited Premiership money, signing everything that had a whiff of promise.  

Might be good for him to be just a coach or at least more so just a coach in the transfer structure someplace like Bayern.

Edited May 21 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Obinna]

30 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

That 2019 season he was player manager for about 10 games until he fired himself and came back the next season. Kompany has just finished his 4th season as a manager while Nancy is midway through his 4th. He also has been coaching since 2006. Here’s how both have done so far:

Anderlect: 4th twice, in his one UECL app he was bumped off before the group stages. The year he left they went to the semis. 
Burnley: 101 point championship season, next season they pretty much never left the relegation zone, get bounced months before the season is over.

 

Nancy in 4 seasons (with 18 total years of coaching experience):

- Wins the Canadian championship in ‘21

- makes it to champions league second round, 2nd in the east, 2nd round exit with Montreal in ‘22, lowest salary club in the league.

- goes to Columbus, immediately wins a title in ‘23

- in ‘24: took his team to champions league finals where he had a winnable match and a relatively viable path to a continental double. 

I’m not saying Nancy is a viable choice at all, but when you take his name out of it, Kompany is a guy who managed two mediocre Anderlecht teams, a dominant championship club and a historically poor premier league team. Nancy has won wherever he’s gone, no matter the hurdles, and frankly, no one who is still open to the Bayern gig seem to have any prestigious experience, so if the choice is between a rising MLS star or an okay European manager, it’s not a crazy question. Both have spent their careers managing leagues of relatively similar quality. 

Appreciate the breakdown and I do see what you are saying. I still don't think there's any world that Bayern seeks out Nancy in 2024. That's not to say he couldn't do the job, or he could, I am just saying I don't see it. I agree with you the idea is not crazy, but I do think it's crazy to think Bayern would see it that way. You can't speak about Bayern and say "if only they took the name out of it..."

[Obinna]

@InglewoodJack it's like your Larin idea for Bayern. Could he do the job Chupo is doing? I'd like to think so. Was there ever a world Bayern goes for Larin in 22-23? I really don't think so ....

[InglewoodJack]

2 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Whether we think it's legit or not, Kompany made a lot of his juice being one  of the best defenders/captains in the world.  Has benefited enormously from that.

He went a little crazy even with his limited Premiership money, signing everything that had a whiff of promise.  

Might be good for him to be just a coach or at least more so just a coach in the transfer structure someplace like Bayern.

For sure. I don’t think Bayern has ever hired a manager without at least some top league experience before, so no chance Nancy is called (unless…?), but if they’re at the stage where it’s like “here are some guys with known names and nominal top league experience… eh?” then… how low can they go? Brazil? Japan? Unicorns from smaller leagues like Nancy? I dunno. I mostly think some big name is going to fall in their lap; Pochettino is officially jobless for example, or they promote an internal hire and try again next offseason for someone like Klopp, or maybe they convince Ancelotti to come back or whatever. Relegated Burnley -> Bayern is just crazy. 

 

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Appreciate the breakdown and I do see what you are saying. I still don't think there's any world that Bayern seeks out Nancy in 2024. That's not to say he couldn't do the job, or he could, I am just saying I don't see it. I agree with you the idea is not crazy, but I do think it's crazy to think Bayern would see it that way. You can't speak about Bayern and say "if only they took the name out of it..."

FWIW, I totally agree, though I did half convince myself of his viability as I wrote down his track record… not saying Bayern will go for him, but I can see a club offering him a really steep jump. That resume has a place somewhere in the Bundesliga, IMO.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

For sure. I don’t think Bayern has ever hired a manager without at least some top league experience before, so no chance Nancy is called (unless…?), but if they’re at the stage where it’s like “here are some guys with known names and nominal top league experience… eh?” then… how low can they go? Brazil? Japan? Unicorns from smaller leagues like Nancy? I dunno. I mostly think some big name is going to fall in their lap; Pochettino is officially jobless for example, or they promote an internal hire and try again next offseason for someone like Klopp, or maybe they convince Ancelotti to come back or whatever. Relegated Burnley -> Bayern is just crazy. 

 

FWIW, I totally agree, though I did half convince myself of his viability as I wrote down his track record… not saying Bayern will go for him, but I can see a club offering him a really steep jump. That resume has a place somewhere in the Bundesliga, IMO.

Agree with this, but I do imagine he needs a middle step like Ange took moving from the J-League to Celtic to now Spurs.

Maybe Nancy to St. Etienne to Bayern (or similar) could be a reality down the road...

[InglewoodJack]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Agree with this, but I do imagine he needs a middle step like Ange took moving from the J-League to Celtic to now Spurs.

Maybe Nancy to St. Etienne to Bayern (or similar) could be a reality down the road...

I think Columbus is probably a better gig than St Étienne for now, but yeah, similar path. Maybe a club like Union Berlin with a small budget fighting to stay up could give him a call. 

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think Columbus is probably a better gig than St Étienne for now, but yeah, similar path. Maybe a club like Union Berlin with a small budget fighting to stay up could give him a call. 

I think that becomes true if/when Columbus qualifies for the Club World Cup. That would probably trump a newly promoted St. Etienne, even with how storied they are. 

If Columbus were to get to, and do damage on, the Club World Cup, that could really put Nancy on the radar of European clubs.

But let's digress. No more about Davies or even Bayern at this point. Appreciate the dialog, cheers!

[GasPed]

At this point Bayern are in "throw anything at the wall and see what sticks" mode.  It's a complete joke of a coaching search, but tbh, it's really just an honest reflection of the dysfunction in the front office and boardroom.  They have a hierarchy there - a Sporting Director, a Director of Sport, an Executive Board and a Supervisory Board - and any coaching candidate decision can get veto'd at any of those levels.  Combine that with the fact that player/personnel decisions are often subject to the same gauntlet of approvals, and any sane coaching candidate would think twice about considering let alone accepting an offer.  And even if they did, there's a high probability the offer itself would get veto'd or drastically modified by someone higher up the food chain.

Case in point - the Supervisory Board is really wanting someone who's ok with a one year caretaker contract (because they want Xabi in 2025-26), but no respectable coach is ok with that.  So when Sporting Director Christoph Freund had Hansi Flick all but signed to a three year deal and he ran it up the flagpole, it was promptly incinerated by the Board and returned to him in tatters.  I expect a lot more of that to happen before we actually see someone signed - and it will more than likely be a mediocre candidate signed to something like a two year term.  That's how sorry the club has become.

Edited May 21 by GasPed

[costarg]

18 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Bayern are on their what, 8th, 9th public rejection now? 

Bayern needs to take a good long at a mirror.  Their issues aren't at coach or on the field.

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 hours ago, GasPed said:

At this point Bayern are in "throw anything at the wall and see what sticks" mode.  It's a complete joke of a coaching search, but tbh, it's really just an honest reflection of the dysfunction in the front office and boardroom.  They have a hierarchy there - a Sporting Director, a Director of Sport, an Executive Board and a Supervisory Board - and any coaching candidate decision can get veto'd at any of those levels.  Combine that with the fact that player/personnel decisions are often subject to the same gauntlet of approvals, and any sane coaching candidate would think twice about considering let alone accepting an offer.  And even if they did, there's a high probability the offer itself would get veto'd or drastically modified by someone higher up the food chain.

Case in point - the Supervisory Board is really wanting someone who's ok with a one year caretaker contract (because they want Xabi in 2025-26), but no respectable coach is ok with that.  So when Sporting Director Christoph Freund had Hansi Flick all but signed to a three year deal and he ran it up the flagpole, it was promptly incinerated by the Board and returned to him in tatters.  I expect a lot more of that to happen before we actually see someone signed - and it will more than likely be a mediocre candidate signed to something like a two year term.  That's how sorry the club has become.

Nice post.

This is all a bit of what I complained about a few months ago when they were pressuring Phonzie. They have all these ex-players who sit fussing in the VIP boxes and are on this or that committee or board, and are like little jealous vultures casting their drooling shadows over everything. If it works, great, if the guy in charge is respected and can act, perfect; but the moment there is a little glitch, it's a shit show. They take pot shots, they are nasty, the egos float to the surface and sit there in a toxic haze. I guess you could argue these councils of elders go back to pre-Roman times and helped them stave off the Caesars at the Rhine, while in the modern period it comes down to helping them take trophies back to Bavaria. 

I am aware there are tensions at Bayern, the new economic models would maybe do away with some of the good part of this participatory approach, but it is in decadence whether they should keep it or not. 

Truth is, Bayern should not have won the league last year, they were gifted it and it was a tragedy for Dortmund fans. Then they have lost a good part of the German national team narrative, when they used to dominate, so that they too need someone to come along and retire Neuer and ask Müller what the hell he wants to do (he retired after Qatar, then reversed). Bayern used to give Die Mannschaft their core, now it is most shavings and tailings.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

We can (justifiably) run Bayern down but the fact remains that even in their worst season in many, many years (not even considering Leverkusen might be a bit of a lightning in bottle/Leicester moment), they lost to the Champions League favourites by 1 goal on aggregate in the semi-finals. 

They get their stuff together again even to a moderate degree, they are back in as favourites for a lot of things.

[Fresh Prince of MTL]

13 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We can (justifiably) run Bayern down but the fact remains that even in their worst season in many, many years (not even considering Leverkusen might be a bit of a lightning in bottle/Leicester moment), they lost to the Champions League favourites by 1 goal on aggregate in the semi-finals. 

They get their stuff together again even to a moderate degree, they are back in as favourites for a lot of things.

I really thought they had a terrible season this year but apparently they finished with one more point than last season. The issues have been there they were just hidden by a lucky title win after Dortmund blew it.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Fresh Prince of MTL said:

I really thought they had a terrible season this year but apparently they finished with one more point than last season. The issues have been there they were just hidden by a lucky title win after Dortmund blew it.

A title win is never lucky to me over 30-40 games.  Every point counts (or goal in this specific case) whether at matchday 1 or (again in this case) 34. 

For me, the only thing they did better this year was the Champions League (one round further) everything else including the silly drama was worse. 

 Huge problems, for sure, but most clubs in the world would not mind having those results even if they were firing on all cyclinders. 

[InglewoodJack]

14 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

A title win is never lucky to me over 30-40 games.  Every point counts (or goal in this specific case) whether at matchday 1 or (again in this case) 34. 

I agree with this generally, however, Dortmund lost the title last year with a draw vs Mainz- they would’ve won had Haller converted his PK- it was his only ever miss in all competitions in his entire career (24 for 25). That’s about as flukey as it gets. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

23 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I agree with this generally, however, Dortmund lost the title last year with a draw vs Mainz- they would’ve won had Haller converted his PK- it was his only ever miss in all competitions in his entire career (24 for 25). That’s about as flukey as it gets. 

Don't allow Bremen to score 2 goals in stoppage time in August and it's not an issue. Same with a multitude of other things. 

We love our moments, but too much happens in 3040 minutes (plus stoppages) of football for me to say any moment was lucky enough to make a title. 

 

 

Edited May 22 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[InglewoodJack]

Per Bild, Bayern have reached an agreement with Kompany. They just need to figure out a deal with Burnley. Crazy. 

[GasPed]

I've got nothing against Kompany, but when your most recent season is 5 wins and a freefall into relegation, it's beyond weird that you would even be considered, let alone be the top candidate for, head coach at Bayern Munich.   And as much as I'd like to think there's a method to this madness, I'm pretty sure there isn't.

Ed: I take that back - maybe they want him to play CB.  😉

Edited May 22 by GasPed

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, GasPed said:

I've got nothing against Kompany, but when your most recent season is 5 wins and a freefall into relegation, it's beyond weird that you would even be considered, let alone be the top candidate for, head coach at Bayern Munich.   And as much as I'd like to think there's a method to this madness, I'm pretty sure there isn't.

Ed: I take that back - maybe they want him to play CB.  😉

Upgrade on both Tuchel and Upamecano?.....how's that for some classic German efficency?

[Obinna]

In all seriousness, I know it's weird and feels like Kompany is failing upwards here, but this may speak to the fact that a poor coaching record is not necessarily a "failure" for a developing coach. For an established coach, it's much harder to make that argument, but when you are young like Kompany (and to a lesser extent...Marsch), you can turn these negatives into positives. 

Let's hope Marsch learned from the Leeds and Leipzig experiences to become a better coach. I am sure Kompany has sold Bayern on the same thing.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, GasPed said:

Ed: I take that back - maybe they want him to play CB.  😉

Can't find it now but that's the joke one of the Bayern board made - so funny it's true apparently.

But to steal another 

[longlugan]

19 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Nice post.

This is all a bit of what I complained about a few months ago when they were pressuring Phonzie. They have all these ex-players who sit fussing in the VIP boxes and are on this or that committee or board, and are like little jealous vultures casting their drooling shadows over everything. If it works, great, if the guy in charge is respected and can act, perfect; but the moment there is a little glitch, it's a shit show. They take pot shots, they are nasty, the egos float to the surface and sit there in a toxic haze. I guess you could argue these councils of elders go back to pre-Roman times and helped them stave off the Caesars at the Rhine, while in the modern period it comes down to helping them take trophies back to Bavaria. 

I am aware there are tensions at Bayern, the new economic models would maybe do away with some of the good part of this participatory approach, but it is in decadence whether they should keep it or not. 

Truth is, Bayern should not have won the league last year, they were gifted it and it was a tragedy for Dortmund fans. Then they have lost a good part of the German national team narrative, when they used to dominate, so that they too need someone to come along and retire Neuer and ask Müller what the hell he wants to do (he retired after Qatar, then reversed). Bayern used to give Die Mannschaft their core, now it is most shavings and tailings.

Tell me you hate Bayern without telling me you hate Bayern 🤣