The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[frmr]

Maybe his performance against Real was enough to move the needle.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

So what you are saying is there were/are other rumours. 

Your original statement:

"The fact that not one club has been rumoured..."

Even Fabrizio Romano has to walk things back sometimes.

Let's not talk about what we read as facts because they aren't yet. Especially the numbers.

Again if he going there to be a starter - beyond amazing - but it is not close to being true yet.

 

Edit: I see there have been Man City links this week, and last month.  

"..not a single half-reliable rumour" is the quote, in case you are tempted to keep twisting. I think that is accurate.

As I argued, I think it is simply because his agent indirectly came to terms with Madrid, he's happy with the option, and that the least you can do if you have a first choice is not force the club you want to go to, that has shown interest, into a bidding war, making them pay far more on a transfer.

The way to solve that is for the agent to not talk to anyone else and shut them all down, it is fairly easy. You can see that Madrid works this way. With Mbappe, no other suitors appearing. And with Davies. That only happens because the club has asked you to dissuade a bidding war.

It is a balancing act. Bayern needs to get something from it all, a transfer fee that will be fairly sweet for a guy out of contract in a year who could go on a free. Sweet for Whitecaps too. But if the fee is limited and not exorbitant, then you can justify the salary he is asking for, everything Madrid pays in a transfer takes away from potential salary for a player, because there is total cost for every operation. 

Mbappe breaks the bank at Madrid, it raises their salary ceiling, but they can afford him under financial fair play because they have new revenues, like from events at the new stadium. And the new tax laws in the Madrid region which lower taxes on elite athlete salaries, amongst other things.

[Unnamed Trialist]

My prediction: Bayern Munich will ask 60-70 million euros, Madrid will offer 40, they'll split the difference, it'll be just over 50. No other team in the world is anywhere close to those numbers, not for what is ostensibly still a left back. 

I think they'll try to sort it out before Copa, because a good performance at Copa could raise his value, and a mediocre performance at Copa won't lower his value. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On 5/12/2024 at 3:54 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

The fact that not one club has been rumoured to be interested suggests that 1-no other wants him, which is unlikely 2-no other feels they can match the salary requirements, which is quite possible and 3-no other would pay that fee, combining with 2, and 4-the word is out he's made his deal with Real Madrid and they are not courting other offers

That was your original quote.  Pretty emphatic. Nothing twisted. The statement bolded above is not a fact and not true. 

But a bit of twisting there to try and put your second post/possible clarification of the first (ie "..not a single half-reliable rumour") up and pretend that was your original quote.

Come on, mate. You are better than that.

 

I had just posted the quote from a reliable German journalist that said : "Still no negotiations between Bayern and Real Madrid." And so most likely your numbers on that front were what everything else is at this point: rumours.  

[GasPed]

Latest word on the Bayern coach situation: Flick is out and Tuchel will stay.  (Please don't ask me - I'm just reporting the daily comedic farcical clown show update surrounding their coaching search.)

[TGAA_Star]

18 hours ago, frmr said:

Maybe his performance against Real was enough to move the needle.

 

If he goes to Real Madrid then they are winning the treble next season I guarantee it

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

@Unnamed Trialist would have to given his contribution as to how reliable COPE is. 

The source article:

https://www.cope.es/programas/tiempo-de-juego/noticias/real-madrid-portazo-davies-yoro-por-rafa-marin-miguel-gutierrez-20240515_3299278

[InglewoodJack]

29 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

@Unnamed Trialist would have to given his contribution as to how reliable COPE is. 

The source article:

https://www.cope.es/programas/tiempo-de-juego/noticias/real-madrid-portazo-davies-yoro-por-rafa-marin-miguel-gutierrez-20240515_3299278

May be silly, but the first thing I look for when assessing a source is “do Romano and Ornstein follow them”, and neither follow COPE so it seems. 

[RS]

Sounds more like a Bayern cope to me.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

13 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

May be silly, but the first thing I look for when assessing a source is “do Romano and Ornstein follow them”, and neither follow COPE so it seems. 

Looking up it's a radio station first. 

No quotes in the article is what I look at. 

The nuts and bolts would be that they have a buy-back clause on this Miguel Gutiérrez, who has had a good year with Girona.  Since he only cost 4mill Euros, I cant imagine the fee would be super high. 

But no idea if any of that is accurate. 

12 minutes ago, RS said:

Sounds more like a Bayern cope to me.

Nice of them to get a Spanish radio station as an ally in that.

[Unnamed Trialist]

55 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

@Unnamed Trialist would have to given his contribution as to how reliable COPE is. 

The source article:

https://www.cope.es/programas/tiempo-de-juego/noticias/real-madrid-portazo-davies-yoro-por-rafa-marin-miguel-gutierrez-20240515_3299278

COPE belongs the Catholic Church of Spain. So it's a question of faith.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

COPE belongs the Catholic Church of Spain. So it's a question of faith.

Does the Catholic Church like Bayern Munich?

[TGAA_Star]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

@Unnamed Trialist would have to given his contribution as to how reliable COPE is. 

The source article:

https://www.cope.es/programas/tiempo-de-juego/noticias/real-madrid-portazo-davies-yoro-por-rafa-marin-miguel-gutierrez-20240515_3299278

If he doesn't go to Real Madrid then he can always go to Barcelona or PSG instead 

[TGAA_Star]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

@Unnamed Trialist would have to given his contribution as to how reliable COPE is. 

The source article:

https://www.cope.es/programas/tiempo-de-juego/noticias/real-madrid-portazo-davies-yoro-por-rafa-marin-miguel-gutierrez-20240515_3299278

If he doesn't go to Real Madrid then he can always go to Barcelona or PSG instead 

[Norrin Radd]

33 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Does the Catholic Church like Bayern Munich?

If they did, Tuchel would've been struck down by lightning already.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On a lighter? note, Davies standing strong with his countryman even in all the troubles.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

May be silly, but the first thing I look for when assessing a source is “do Romano and Ornstein follow them”, and neither follow COPE so it seems. 

COPE, Ser, and of course Radio Marca are massive media outlets producing sports talk and live broadcasts, in Catalonia we have national sports radio too. Romano wouldn't follow them but all three have millions of listeners.

Because media laws allow any channel to do sports live under right of information, you can get 6-7 calling a game live from any stadium. No exclusive radio rights for sports in Spain. Then they do long talk shows, breaking for local affiliates. 

COPE literally leveraged the origins of professional futsal in Spain because their most famous journalist José María García was interested in it.

COPE is a bit less reliable because they are not as rigorous as the others and tend to be more willing to play to a lower common denominator. That goes for their political reporting too, they are hard core right wing, as is the Spanish Catholic church that runs it (with exceptions, but they dislike current Pope) and dogmatic to the hilt. 

[InglewoodJack]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

COPE, Ser, and of course Radio Marca are massive media outlets producing sports talk and live broadcasts, in Catalonia we have national sports radio too. Romano wouldn't follow them but all three have millions of listeners.

Because media laws allow any channel to do sports live under right of information, you can get 6-7 calling a game live from any stadium. No exclusive radio rights for sports in Spain. Then they do long talk shows, breaking for local affiliates. 

COPE literally leveraged the origins of professional futsal in Spain because their most famous journalist José María García was interested in it.

COPE is a bit less reliable because they are not as rigorous as the others and tend to be more willing to play to a lower common denominator. That goes for their political reporting too, they are hard core right wing, as is the Spanish Catholic church that runs it (with exceptions, but they dislike current Pope) and dogmatic to the hilt. 

I've seen the big rumour breakers follow some very obscure accounts- not that their follow implies that the source is "legit", but if the guys who spend 22 hours every day of the year tweeting about rumours aren't listening to you, how good is your info really? I also wonder if some of this is lost in translation- I find rumours that come from places like Spain, Italy, etc., are often translated as "Alphonso Davies will not join Madrid" and use these definitive words, but I've always wondered if it's just an inaccurate translation of a radio host saying something along the lines of "if such and such happens, that means they probably wouldn't go for these other players", but when you translate it into english, it sounds more definitive and not just some radio hosts speculating.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

57 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I've seen the big rumour breakers follow some very obscure accounts- not that their follow implies that the source is "legit", but if the guys who spend 22 hours every day of the year tweeting about rumours aren't listening to you, how good is your info really? I also wonder if some of this is lost in translation- I find rumours that come from places like Spain, Italy, etc., are often translated as "Alphonso Davies will not join Madrid" and use these definitive words, but I've always wondered if it's just an inaccurate translation of a radio host saying something along the lines of "if such and such happens, that means they probably wouldn't go for these other players", but when you translate it into english, it sounds more definitive and not just some radio hosts speculating.

The audio is there no? so our resident translator can help? 

Edited May 16 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[InglewoodJack]

24 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

The audio is there no? so our resident translator can help? 

Is it? Didn’t click the link and won’t pretend my Spanish is good enough to interpret it. Seems like European sports rumours are always written as definitive statements whereas the North American ones are clearer about them being speculative, even when it’s guys like Woj, Shams, Adam Shefter, etc., who are even more blatant league PR agents than Fab and Ornstein. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

7 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Is it? Didn’t click the link and won’t pretend my Spanish is good enough to interpret it. Seems like European sports rumours are always written as definitive statements whereas the North American ones are clearer about them being speculative, even when it’s guys like Woj, Shams, Adam Shefter, etc., who are even more blatant league PR agents than Fab and Ornstein. 

Yeah, in the source article there is audio.

I guess I would agree in that I take everything with a truckload of salt. But I do enjoy the speculation. 

I don't listen to all lot of sport commentary these days for whatever reason.  As a kid, used to love 630 CHED and American stuff I could get on my old AM radio from Seattle, Sacremento etc.  And when the internet was new Talksport was my first lifeline to English football beyond stuff from family. 

But I spend too much time actually watching (and listening) to the actual games these days I guess. Too much available. 

Reading about the opinions is  usually quicker for me I guess. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

I've seen the big rumour breakers follow some very obscure accounts- not that their follow implies that the source is "legit", but if the guys who spend 22 hours every day of the year tweeting about rumours aren't listening to you, how good is your info really? I also wonder if some of this is lost in translation- I find rumours that come from places like Spain, Italy, etc., are often translated as "Alphonso Davies will not join Madrid" and use these definitive words, but I've always wondered if it's just an inaccurate translation of a radio host saying something along the lines of "if such and such happens, that means they probably wouldn't go for these other players", but when you translate it into english, it sounds more definitive and not just some radio hosts speculating.

One part of that is just "helping" Real Madrid keep their transfer fee down, more on that below.

I think it is also we are in a clickbait age, and that goes for survival as a journalist. If the editor lets the journalists make up shit, post unsubstantiated rumours, go on hearsay, or plain muckrake, then that is the editorial policy and most likely is tied to a commercial strategy. 

But it also suggests they are renouncing doing journalism the old humanistic way where you have real sources, even if you can't cite them for professional reasons. And where a story takes place over its entire duration, where you write follow-ups and follow through and there is a commitment to getting to the end of things. 

I know the following for a fact, because my wife's cousin from the same village was one of the heads of sports for EL País, the most prestigious Spanish paper. He explained 15-20 years ago as readership dropped, they asked their up-and-coming journalists to blog on their site, and whoever got more viewers was kept on and the guys who could not get followers and likes were cut. He was saved because he had his reputation and was senior. But the culture of sports journalism has deteriorated a lot, for example few media actually do anything investigative, dig into corruption, nothing is in it for them. Or they are bought out by the cljubs, as with most major outlets in Madrid by Real Madrid, in Catalonia by Barça. Even the women's team scandals were given over to non-sports journalists.

And unlike with Britain, where there are great journalists who write excellent books on sports, in Spain there is no readership and the sports books are pure fluff. Probably the best book out of Spain on sports is John Carlin's Invictus (few know that Carlin's mom was from Madrid, he's Spanish). Even this past year (Canada tie in coming) when Borjan Krkic wrote a book about his mental health issues in his career, they dumbed it down severely, when the topic warranted something more than grade 8 level.

Because any transfer operation involves money, if not a fee than contracts and commissions, agents and intermediaries and clubs and even interest groups are going to use the press to their advantage. COPE doing the "let's save Real Madrid a few million" angle would not be surprising. So it is natural to have to filter through it all. And the press has its own concern, which is selling papers and ads in the offseason, or if a team's season is pretty well done even with games to go. Copa America and Euros will fend that off a bit this year, in the Spanish press transfer rumour season will be shorter for those two reasons.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Is it? Didn’t click the link and won’t pretend my Spanish is good enough to interpret it. Seems like European sports rumours are always written as definitive statements whereas the North American ones are clearer about them being speculative, even when it’s guys like Woj, Shams, Adam Shefter, etc., who are even more blatant league PR agents than Fab and Ornstein. 

I guess I would add that one thing gave any of this credibilty is that Florian Plettenberg - a  Bayern beat guy for SKY Germany as well as being transfer specialist (broke a couple of West Ham moves) - had just said that Real and Bayern had not even started negoatiations. 

He is also saying right now that Tuchel is likely staying - wild and honestly embarassing couple few weeks for them.

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I guess I would add that one thing gave any of this credibilty is that Florian Plettenberg - a  Bayern beat guy for SKY Germany as well as being transfer specialist (broke a couple of West Ham moves) - had just said that Real and Bayern had not even started negoatiations. 

He is also saying right now that Tuchel is likely staying - wild and honestly embarassing couple few weeks for them.

I’ve always been skeptical of “negotiations haven’t been started yet”- I think most transfer negotiations start between intermediaries so clubs aren’t caught tampering in a rival’s affairs and the selling club isn’t caught trying to offload the guy they publicly back as a key piece of their future. Negotiations may not have started with madrid yet, but Bayern has met with Davies agent who was also spotted in Madrid and likely met with people tied to Real Madrid and both sides definitely know what the other is looking for. 
 

I’ve heard the Tuchel news- that’s probably Bayern’s best choice at this point. Relationship with Davies notwithstanding, I’ve grown a soft spot for him over the last few months. He reminds me of this sentimental nerd who is just obsessed with his craft, takes everything very emotionally, has strong convictions, and when it works out, he can produce excellent results. He’s like that teacher in high school you thought had it out for you because they were so tough, but years later you realized they just really cared about their students succeeding in ways other teachers didn’t. He seems to consider Davies more of a winger than an LB, and with rumblings of Gnabry maybe leaving, I can’t say I’d hate a world where Davies stays at Bayern and fights for a spot up top under Tuchel. Though these rumours keep listing all these Bayern players who apparently back TT, and none of these lists ever mention Davies, so perhaps it really is over for him.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I’ve always been skeptical of “negotiations haven’t been started yet”- I think most transfer negotiations start between intermediaries so clubs aren’t caught tampering in a rival’s affairs and the selling club isn’t caught trying to offload the guy they publicly back as a key piece of their future. Negotiations may not have started with madrid yet, but Bayern has met with Davies agent who was also spotted in Madrid and likely met with people tied to Real Madrid and both sides definitely know what the other is looking for. 
 

I’ve heard the Tuchel news- that’s probably Bayern’s best choice at this point. Relationship with Davies notwithstanding, I’ve grown a soft spot for him over the last few months. He reminds me of this sentimental nerd who is just obsessed with his craft, takes everything very emotionally, has strong convictions, and when it works out, he can produce excellent results. He’s like that teacher in high school you thought had it out for you because they were so tough, but years later you realized they just really cared about their students succeeding in ways other teachers didn’t. He seems to consider Davies more of a winger than an LB, and with rumblings of Gnabry maybe leaving, I can’t say I’d hate a world where Davies stays at Bayern and fights for a spot up top under Tuchel. Though these rumours keep listing all these Bayern players who apparently back TT, and none of these lists ever mention Davies, so perhaps it really is over for him.

A lot of tapping up happens without legally being tapping up I agree but again a source that I have seen good things from and is close to the situation, felt the need to come out and say it (when the clickbait is the other way probably).

Chelsea a few weeks ago really wanted Tuchel back (Poch is finally making some inroads) and he won a Champions League with a team that we see isn't a piece of cake to bring together, despite the silly money.  Won a German Cup with someone who isn't Bayern as well.