The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

Okay I agree with your point but you don't need to exaggerate and go overboard. At no time did his agent "Slag" Bayern (unless I am misinformed). 

If Bayern has openly come out saying he is a Bayern player, which is something entirely unnecessary to have to say, and if his agent is now backtracking like hell because of their poor management of the question, then obviously something sat very wrong with the club.

I am no fan of Bayern, as I am not of Real Madrid. But I think he has to leave, if he does, with his head high. You leave with the door always open to come back, even retired, and they honour you for life. Or you leave and no one will give you the time of day and you are not welcome anymore. This is not a minor question, and less so when it comes to the absolutely top clubs in the world. 

I know what I am talking about as a Barça club member, there are even players who went afterwards to Real Madrid who we still admire and are welcome back, because they did so in ways that was in no way understood as a betrayal or a backstab (Laudrup being the best and most famous, perhaps). 

This is how it is, Bayern is a proud club but if you can close your period with them amicably and properly, you have made friends for life. And yes, that does matter. Don't go with any bad blood at all. I'd say this about any of our players at any top club, because the true powerhouses have legacies, and it is always better to be part of them forever than to lose that opportunity because someone couldn't help but repeat dumbass comments in the crunch.

In any case, I give a transfer to Real Madrid a 20% possibility or maybe slightly higher, because the circumstances can't be controlled and transfer rumours always have one thing in common: their resolution always depends on multiple factors which cannot be controlled. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If Bayern has openly come out saying he is a Bayern player, which is something entirely unnecessary to have to say, and if his agent is now backtracking like hell because of their poor management of the question, then obviously something sat very wrong with the club.

I am no fan of Bayern, as I am not of Real Madrid. But I think he has to leave, if he does, with his head high. You leave with the door always open to come back, even retired, and they honour you for life. Or you leave and no one will give you the time of day and you are not welcome anymore. This is not a minor question, and less so when it comes to the absolutely top clubs in the world. 

This is how it is, Bayern is a proud club but if you can close your period with them amicably and properly, you have made friends for life. And yes, that does matter. Don't go with any bad blood at all. I'd say this about any of our players at any top club, because the true powerhouses have legacies, and it is always better to be part of them forever than to lose that opportunity because someone could help but repeat dumbass comments in the crunch.

Again, I agree. 

My point is the agent didn't slag the club. Do they feel disrespected? Possibly. That's not because the were slagged though, it was because of how things have developed (as you point out). The agent has not said anything bad about Bayern (i.e. slagged them). 

Apologies if I am being pedantic here, but as someone that's only half following this saga I want to make sure I am not missing something, so I am kind of asking for clarity here. 

Cheers!

[Unnamed Trialist]

57 minutes ago, kacbru said:

I'm afraid if someone put my face on a massive billboard in Madrid, it would just confuse people. 

Reminds me of the massive banner Laporta hung off a building in Madrid during the Barça election campaign: "Looking forward to seeing you again."

[narduch]

 

 

[Bigandy]

5 minutes ago, narduch said:

 

 

I would rather see him at city. 

Real madrid would be fun but he could easily be dropped in a mendy type situation. If he makes it at madrid, then he will arguably develop even further as a left back. However, at city, i think he develops more as a footballer. For sure no more hero ball, his IQ will likely take off, theres always tons of rotation for city so he'll likely get many starts. 

I have a hard time seeing him play as an inverted TAA type of fullback but imagine if he could develop that skillset for city. He would instantly become a viable option as a central midfielder for us. We'd likely need to play staq holding and kone/davies as a double 8. We would still likely run into trouble against low blocks but in an open game things would get wild with staq spraying passes to laryea/adekugbe johnston buchanan and millar/corbeanu on the wings and davies and david coutnering thru the middle.

[costarg]

15 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I would rather see him at city. 

Real madrid would be fun but he could easily be dropped in a mendy type situation. If he makes it at madrid, then he will arguably develop even further as a left back. However, at city, i think he develops more as a footballer. For sure no more hero ball, his IQ will likely take off, theres always tons of rotation for city so he'll likely get many starts. 

I have a hard time seeing him play as an inverted TAA type of fullback but imagine if he could develop that skillset for city. He would instantly become a viable option as a central midfielder for us. We'd likely need to play staq holding and kone/davies as a double 8. We would still likely run into trouble against low blocks but in an open game things would get wild with staq spraying passes to laryea/adekugbe johnston buchanan and millar/corbeanu on the wings and davies and david coutnering thru the middle.

Agree on the Madrid vs City bit.

Completely disagree on Davies in central midfield.  Reinventing him as a CM at 24, when nothing we have seen from him until now would suggest he's suited to the role makes sense.  No amount of Guardiola schooling would change that.  Davies is ridiculously talented and Guardiola is a great coach/mentor, but this take is a bit much.

He's the best LB in the world, why even consider messing with that?  It would just set him and us back.

Edited November 16, 2023 by costarg

[Corazon]

I would say that with Davies as well as many of our other attacking wingbacks, really haven't proven to be an elite finishers that would require him them to be considered an attacking option for top European clubs.  Davies probably could be a more than adequate attacker for many clubs in Europe.  He just likely isn't good enough to be an attacker for the best teams in the world such as Bayern & Real Madrid.  These are the best attackers in the world in this sport and he just isn't at that level.  The way, the modern game has changed, he really is an ideal outside back (sure he could improve his 1v1 and defensive reading ability) but he's more than capable of joining forward in any attack.  His strengths in his game are his speed, strength and dribbling capabilities and these allow him to join in attacks.  His speed and strength allow him to also be overall strong defensively as well.  If we want Davies to play for the best teams in Europe, it's going to be as an outside back or wingback at best.  I also, believe this to true with Tajon as well.  He's more than capable of being an attacker in Europe, but his lack of finishing qualities hinders this.  If Tajon is going to take the next step to the next level in Europe, it also likely has to be as an outside back or wingback.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Corazon

[Bigandy]

14 minutes ago, costarg said:

Agree on the Madrid vs City bit.

Completely disagree on Davies in central midfield.  Reinventing him as a CM at 24, when nothing we have seen from him until now would suggest he's suited to the role makes sense.  No amount of Guardiola schooling would change that.  Davies is ridiculously talented and Guardiola is a great coach/mentor, but this take is a bit much.

He's the best LB in the world, why even consider messing with that?  It would just set him and us back.

Oh 100% he doesnt suit it. I even said that nothing about him suggests he has the ability to do so. AND our team balance would likely suffer. 

however, from a dreaming perspective, I would absolutely love if we had the best CM in the world as opposed to the best LB in the world given our squad composition. The hypothetical theory would be we see a TAA style move for davies at city where his build up play occurs more centrally and he can progress the ball in more congested areas as opposed to running down the wing. This part of his game would 100% improve under guadiorla even if its not to a TAA level. Then to dream even bigger would be that we choose between oso, ali, choiniere, etc as our 3rd mid with davies at lb or laryea/adekugbe at lb and davies as an 8. Our team on paper would be much better with laryea/adekugbe. If davies could be an inverted FB for city, he could almost certainly manage as an 8 in concacaf. 

realistically Davies to city would benefit the CMNT if we go with a back 4 and have millar in front of davies going out wide and davies, now more comfortable in central areas, driving from deep and causing all sorts of panic as he can choose to dribble inside/outside or pass it wither way. Its not so foreign to how hes played for cmnt already, but at city he would likely improve in this area specifically. 

[Bigandy]

6 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I would say that with Davies as well as many of our other attacking wingbacks, really haven't proven to be an elite finishers that would require him them to be considered an attacking option for top European clubs.  Davies probably could be a more than adequate attacker for many clubs in Europe.  He just likely isn't good enough to be an attacker for the best teams in the world such as Bayern & Real Madrid.  These are the best attackers in the world in this sport and he just isn't at that level.  The way, the modern game has changed, he really is an ideal outside back (sure he could improve his 1v1 and defensive reading ability) but he's more than capable of joining forward in any attack.  His strengths in his game are his speed, strength and dribbling capabilities and these allow him to join in attacks.  His speed and strength allow him to also be overall strong defensively as well.  If we want Davies to play for the best teams in Europe, it's going to be as an outside back or wingback at best.  I also, believe this to true with Tajon as well.  He's more than capable of being an attacker in Europe, but his lack of finishing qualities hinders this.  If Tajon is going to take the next step to the next level in Europe, it also likely has to be as an outside back or wingback.

This! 

Which is such a shame. If you look at our best players you would say the rough order is - Davies, david, staq, buchanan, larin, johnston, kone, laryea, adekugbe. (special shout outs to hoilett but he isnt really a starter long term. millar for contributing in the championship but hes yet to cement his spot for CMNT, cornelius and LDF might both get to a johnston level pretty soon but not currently). 

Of our top 9 players, 5 should probably be played at fullbacks (buchanan, davies, laryea, adekugbe, and johnston). Therefore, I love to dream of a scenario where we have 4 of these guys on at once. Hence the davies as an 8 hypothetical... which is absurd realistically. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 hours ago, narduch said:

There is no veracity in any of this. 

First, no team can openly negotiate, so you really do not know. I seriously doubt Pep is interested in Davies, he does not play at all like a City player and has few of the virtues Guardiola would be interested in, he does not have the ball skills, passing, positional rigour, none of it. 

Second, it benefits Bayern, interested in a sale, to let rumours of other interest to circulate. That keeps the price up. 

All transfer rumours always correspond to multiple factors, including what all sides are looking for, in their benefit. And since these are always in contrast and do not coincide, they run in counter directions. Anyone who has followed major transfers will have seen this over and over. 

The only thing that is at all credible is that there are about 6-8 other clubs who could pay considerably more than his current salary at Bayern (transfer payments aside), and these three are amongst them.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

First, no team can openly negotiate, so you really do not know. I seriously doubt Pep is interested in Davies, he does not play at all like a City player and has few of the virtues would be interested in, he does not have the ball skills, passing, positional rigour, none of it. 

That's what people said about Kyle Walker before Pep got a hold of him.  Maybe Guardiola wants a project and sees similar qualities in Davies as Walker, who is now 33 years old.  

I guess the overall point is that yours and my speculation is worth as much a transfer journalist's.  Maybe even a bit less.😉

Edited November 16, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

That's what people said about Kyle Walker before Pep got a hold of him.  Maybe Guardiola wants a project and sees similar qualities in Davies as Walker, who is now 33 years old.  

I guess the overall point is that yours and my speculation is worth as much a transfer journalist's.  Maybe even a bit less.😉

Transfer journalists are monetizing and we aren't. We don't lose inside scoops or revenue streams by saying something is doubtful or putting a damper on things.

They do.

Do we have the inside information? Of course not (not usually, I got a scoop a few times via players years ago). But we do know all agents, clubs and team-related media have contrasting motives for reporting on transfers. It's not in the interest of a multi million dollar deal to be transparent, that'd be irresponsible.

I've seen so much bs and falsehood over the years, then just listen to the retired players who all have a "I was a slow fax away from signing for (insert massive club name)" stories.

Anyways there's one good project for Davies that he's proven he could respond to: inverted wing on the right.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Ruud]

Anyone else notice Davies not celebrating the first goal with Larin and David.  ?

[Borjans Sweatpants]

1 hour ago, Ruud said:

Anyone else notice Davies not celebrating the first goal with Larin and David.  ?

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

 

Sometimes players get into odd head spaces in a game, so they don't celebrate, or not the way you'd think they should.  And then not all goals are euphoria moments, every player is in a different mental space at any given moment of the game.

In the intensity of the moment, a player is often seeing the play in a certain way, trying to make it work in a certain way, then it goes in another way--so they take a moment to click back in. Davies is often, quite often, very effusive celebrating, he went nuts for other players' goals many times during qualifying. Also when following online, Adekugbe's goal for example. 

It is similar to scorers receiving a perfect pass after the assisting player makes a great move, then tapping in and running away in the opposite direction. I find that just as odd, frankly, the goal somehow being an ego thing instead of celebrating with the player who set it all up. You constantly see players doing wonders and being "shunned" by the scorer, and then they seem to turn off by not being acknowledged.

[Ruud]

2 hours ago, Borjans Sweatpants said:

 

Yup saw it later.  How took the ball out of net but he did come back to the group.  

[BearcatSA]

Nothing to see here.

[jhoops__]

Let me start by saying I love Phonzy and really value him as a player.   I love watching him at Bayern and with us.  We’re very lucky to have him.   However,  I did just see him post both his goal and assist on his insta story.  Now I’m a 53 year old dude who completely understands that this generation is quite a bit different but I could never imagine highlighting my individual accomplishments after suffering such an humiliating defeat.   This probably has no bearing on anything but I’ve been super bummed since last night and I’d think the players would be even more pissed but fuck me I don’t know…

[frmr]

Win or lose, I don't think anyone can argue that Phonzie absolutely loves scoring for Canada. I'm not going to fault him for that.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Looks like Bayern will go to Switzerland for their little winter break.

[narduch]

Match postponed today due to heavy snow fall

[Unnamed Trialist]

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/real-madrid/20231207/1002149082/davies-le-aprieta-tuercas-bayern.html

Article today in Mundo Deportivo says his agent is pressuring BM, asking for 15 million euros a year to renew the contract. Which is up in mid 2025. 

Agent also says the club is chaotic at the moment and it is hard to know who to speak with. 

Says BM is nervous because Alaba went to RM on a free translfer, and Davies could be looking to repeat the idea. And that Kroos left after they refused to pay him more, for a relatively low transfer fee, and he's become a Madrid legend (IMO, probably the best signing in La Liga of the past decade). 

It is more of the same we've heard, but it does seem that the argument is better structured. 

BTW, they say no one at RM makes 15million€/year, not even Vinicius, now that Benzema is gone. I think Bale made near that too. But if Davies goes to RM on a free, it would be normal to reward his loyalty with a salary a bit higher than he'd normally warrant (some say around 10 million/year).

[InglewoodJack]

Also, I see Bayern just signed a young LW from La Liga to come in next season. We already laid the Davies as a winger thing to rest, but even more log jam at the position. I think he leaves.

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Also, I see Bayern just signed a young LW from La Liga to come in next season. We already laid the Davies as a winger thing to rest, but even more log jam at the position. I think he leaves.

Bryan Zaragoza, totally different kind of player. He's a short very tricky wing or mid. Young still, but hardly proven and probably too big a step up. Last year in 2nd wasn't even a starter. He had one great game vs Barça and he's gone.

For me not a good signing for the Bavarians.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Today Sport, a major Barcelona sports daily, had a full page in the paper edition on the Bayern negotiation, with a nice massive pic. They say he is being offered 12million a year, holding out for 15. And that the fee when he can go on a free in a year would be around 25-30 million.

Which I don't believe, since no one ever makes a big club pay less, they always have to pay more.

I don't see today's story online yet.