The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If you are wanting me to point to players in Spain before the sport even existed, you are reaching. In any case, there is no basis to say FCB does not sign players because of their nationality.

Come on mate.

The sport existed in the 20s and 30s - your picked decades not mine.  Some names or an admission you were making some things up would seem appropriate about now. 

Edit: 

I can help get you started:

https://players.fcbarcelona.com/en/chronology/1920

Edited June 16, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Unnamed Trialist]

I find it funny when an England fan forgets that they had dozens of people displayed in human zoos in Universal Expositions in the 19th century, and into the twentieth, but they point proudly to the one they let out to play for a football team in 1880.

The whole argument, back to the point, is Davies talking bullshit. Which is not surprising for all the reasons we are seeing with his amateur agent and current instability at Bayern.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I find it funny when an England fan forgets that they had dozens of people displayed in human zoos in Universal Expositions in the 19th century, and into the twentieth, but they point proudly to the one they let out to play for a football team in 1880.

The whole argument, back to the point, is Davies talking bullshit. Which is not surprising for all the reasons we are seeing with his amateur agent and current instability at Bayern.

Your strawmen are great.  No one is arguing England wasn't racist. People in the whole world, including Spain and in Barcelona, were and unfortunately (though in hopefully smaller numbers) continue to be racist.

 

My point with you is you made stuff up.  I thought it was just you being ignorant, being fed stuff by football press, when you did it about English football.  But you just did it about your own club. 

 

Edit:  My final word - Davies doesn't deserve this on his thread.  I agree, Davies shouldn't be speaking in the press about any of this.  I think that about any player really.  

But you can't make stuff up to defend your point and not be called on it. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Bison44]

HEHE, I dont have a dog in this fight, I just know about 10 years ago I made the mistake of talking to UT about something involving Spain and I still havnt recovered from the verbal lashing I got for my ignorance and naivete. 

[GasPed]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

HEHE, I dont have a dog in this fight, I just know about 10 years ago I made the mistake of talking to UT about something involving Spain and I still havnt recovered from the verbal lashing I got for my ignorance and naivete. 

I do not understand why the forum admins don't post this in a sticky as the number 1 forum rule.  So many people have had to learn the hard way...

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Your strawmen are great.  No one is arguing England wasn't racist. People in the whole world, including Spain and in Barcelona, were and unfortunately (though in hopefully smaller numbers) continue to be racist.

 

My point with you is you made stuff up.  I thought it was just you being ignorant, being fed stuff by football press, when you did it about English football.  But you just did it about your own club. 

 

Edit:  My final word - Davies doesn't deserve this on his thread.  I agree, Davies shouldn't be speaking in the press about any of this.  I think that about any player really.  

But you can't make stuff up to defend your point and not be called on it. 

I'm staying on topic, you and a few others want to lend credence to Davies making up some bullshit about not being wanted because he was a Canadian. 

If you want to make that argument, don't make it about a team that signed a Canadian the year previously. And don't make it about a team that has a proven track record in signing players from all over the world regardless of nationality, race or creed. 

The Davies comment is a slur and it is fair to debunk the slur. 

Fausto dos Santos, Jaguare, Paulino Alcántara, all players of "colour" who played for Barça a hundred years ago, since this seems to obsess you somehow.

[Markoaleks]

He is a man amongst boys when he unleashes like last night 

Mad skills - plus add a great lad too 

compare him to C Pulisic or Reyna (punchable face IMO) 

AD - proper Canadian lad !

[Onelessstar]

So... I guess the point is that Barcelona didn't think Davies was (or would be) good enough (regardless of everything) and they were probably wrong.

I only wish Davies ended up at Swansea (my team) like he almost did. Of course,  they would've screwed that up somehow, probably.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Onelessstar

[Bison44]

Its all no big problem.  Davies will go to RM and it will be smooth sailing with UT after that.  No more drama.  

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/alphonso-davies-bayern-munich-emerges-085400089.html

 

[Aird25]

It sounds like he'd prefer to play further forward for club. I don't actually agree that's his best role, but we'll see what happens. https://bulinews.com/news/17749/davies-declares-himself-dissatisfied-fullback-role

[archer21]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

It sounds like he'd prefer to play further forward for club. I don't actually agree that's his best role, but we'll see what happens. https://bulinews.com/news/17749/davies-declares-himself-dissatisfied-fullback-role

I agree that he’s better at LWB right now but to be fair to him, he hasn’t really had the chance to develop as a winger. Best case for us, he moves to wing at club and becomes dominant in that position. I think that improves our upside pretty drastically. 

[Macksam]

Barca didn't want Davies because he's Canadian, Graham Taylor was told not to pick too many black players....can we agree that European tabloids related to football are mostly sensational bull shit? 

[Kadenge]

Bayern's defence has been porous for the past 2+ seasons. Doesn’t help with 2 youngish CBs. The way Davies has been deployed: attack down the flank and then sprint back to cover, sometimes the 1st defender back is going to and has taken a toll on his body.  Even at his age, sprinting fullout for a good part of 90 mins and injuries happen. In the past Kimmich & Goretzka would drop and cover Davies but that's not happening as much. Then you have Tuchel who  wants Davies to stay back and play conservatively which does not max the attributes that got him elevated to FIFA XI. Bayern's in a bit of a mess right now together with the German National team.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

17 hours ago, archer21 said:

I agree that he’s better at LWB right now but to be fair to him, he hasn’t really had the chance to develop as a winger. Best case for us, he moves to wing at club and becomes dominant in that position. I think that improves our upside pretty drastically. 

I think the development is part of it.  However, it is also what he has tried to do while playing as a winger (mostly for us).

Often when we have seen him further forward, by design or not, he trying to play everything not just wing.

If he is taken by a well established manager at Bayern or somewhere else (possibly at  just slightly lower a level) and " told you are a winger, you have good players around you, trust them to do their jobs, then use your strengths to do yours", I think you would see a dominant winger emerge very quickly.

I feel that is what made him a very good defender again, quite quickly.

I guess he has to decide what he wants to be and realise that being the hero of the nation every game isn't necessarily the best thing for his long-term development or for ours.

Edited June 17, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Bison44]

Just curious, when did Bale switch from a more of a FB to a full blown offensive winger?  Davies is still young enough to morph his position a bit eh??  He certainly still has the physical tools to play further up the field like he used to.  

[El Hombre]

FWIW, it took ninety seconds to find the original tweet and article:

https://www.givemesport.com/1592424-barcelona-president-opted-not-to-sign-alphonso-davies-because-hes-canadian/

This is not a new phenomenon.  I remember there being a number of stories back in the day about our players not really being taken seriously because of where they come from.  That's why the idea of something like this coming out wasn't so unbelievable for me.

This is part of the reason why I wasn't too disappointed about Herdman at the WC.  Get to the big game, show that our players can play, and then maybe that might open some doors in the future (despite the results).

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

FWIW, it took ninety seconds to find the original tweet and article:

https://www.givemesport.com/1592424-barcelona-president-opted-not-to-sign-alphonso-davies-because-hes-canadian/

This is not a new phenomenon.  I remember there being a number of stories back in the day about our players not really being taken seriously because of where they come from.  That's why the idea of something like this coming out wasn't so unbelievable for me.

This is part of the reason why I wasn't too disappointed about Herdman at the WC.  Get to the big game, show that our players can play, and then maybe that might open some doors in the future (despite the results).

Stoichkov is a Barcelona legend and was in MLS, and so many of his recommendations to Barcelona over the last 20 years have been seriously considered.

So many: meaning none.

Not a single player in the last 25 years has signed for FCB on the recommendation of Hristo Stoichkov. I mean, if someone had signed, just one, because of his recommendation, you could lend credence to that statement. But no one ever has.

In fact Hristo was a disaster of a coach, is not an agent, was never even brought back to do admin or related work for the club, and has zero role in the Spanish press as a pundit.

He is also a very bad driver, I can vouch for that personally. I loved him as a player though.

[El Hombre]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Stoichkov is a Barcelona legend and was in MLS, and so many of his recommendations to Barcelona over the last 20 years have been seriously considered.

So many: meaning none.

Not a single player in the last 25 years has signed for FCB on the recommendation of Hristo Stoichkov. I mean, if someone had signed, just one, because of his recommendation, you could lend credence to that statement. But no one ever has.

In fact Hristo was a disaster of a coach, is not an agent, was never even brought back to do admin or related work for the club, and has zero role in the Spanish press as a pundit.

He is also a very bad driver, I can vouch for that personally. I loved him as a player though.

Well, it looks like he was right about Davies.  Maybe if they had listened to more of his recommendations they wouldn't crash out of the Champions League year after year.

[costarg]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:46 AM, Kadenge said:

The way Davies has been deployed: attack down the flank and then sprint back to cover, sometimes the 1st defender back is going to and has taken a toll on his body.  Even at his age, sprinting fullout for a good part of 90 mins and injuries happen. In the past Kimmich & Goretzka would drop and cover Davies but that's not happening as much. 

This is an important factor that does not get mentioned enough.  He's not being put in a position to succeed long term.  It's not sustainable nor beneficial.   

[Stoppage Time]

What is the Davies sell-on payment to VWFC when Bayern sells him? Is it 10% of the transfer fee? 15%?

[yothat2]

On 6/14/2023 at 3:26 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

You're bored brother. Just follow the arguments, no one cares about anything else.

I insist: he has a very weak agency and agent, and they are making all these off the cuff statements. Nitpicking, talking BS. He has a legacy at Bayern he is willing to throw away because of bad advice.  The worst being the agent doing a 10 minute interview with Fabrizio saying absolutely nothing. And looking foolish, because no serious agent does that.

The only things that matters: he wants to play wing, but no one will sign him as a wing because he is totally unproven at a high level as a wing. I personally think it is his best place to be, inverted on the right, and that he could "learn" fast, and that it would give him higher market value. 

Everything else is stupid, and the whole business of Barça, well I debunked that easily a few days ago, it is amateur hour.

I think ATG wants Davies at Bayern until there a clear spot at RM which may not ever be present. They are knowledgable about soccer. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 minutes ago, yothat2 said:

I think ATG wants Davies at Bayern until there a clear spot at RM which may not ever be present. They are knowledgable about soccer. 

ATG is knowledgeable? They are seat of the pants outfit who have Davies because he chose them as a teen. They have no other players in Europe of any substance. And hardly any in MLS. I'd bet 90% of their business is Davies.

Basically his contracts at Bayern are standard, they write themselves.

[VinceA]

KJ made a big point about Davies that was 100%. He can't keep switching positions in the middle of a game just because Herdman starts to panic. It never really works out against better teams.

 

[sebdeserio]

He will never be a CL caliber winger.

[yothat2]

On 6/18/2023 at 3:34 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

ATG is knowledgeable? They are seat of the pants outfit who have Davies because he chose them as a teen. They have no other players in Europe of any substance. And hardly any in MLS. I'd bet 90% of their business is Davies.

Basically his contracts at Bayern are standard, they write themselves.

that exactly why they started the firm. The contracts are not that difficult to negiogate.  Anyone could do it .. yes Davies is 90% of their business.  Can see on transfermkt. There's edm getting trials left n right between ATG n BTB partnership.