The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[TGAA_Star]

Davies to Real Madrid actually would be pretty ideal as far as if he left Bayern, then that would be the exact club he would go to either there or Barcelona 

[clamlinguine]

He won't be playing left back at Real. Would that convince the doubters? Btw guys, I'm a longtime soccer fan, but not immersed in the game like most of you here probably are. Regardless, I do follow sports in general as a passion and I feel like I can tell the when popular opinion of "intelligentsia" is off. We will see🙂.

[clamlinguine]

3 hours ago, Copes said:

Yeah I'm gonna agree with @football_world above and edit your comment. 

The only thing we have is a world class player in Davies, who for country happens to be playing attacking midfield.

He is not a world class attacking midfielder. He's a phenomenal player and will be "good" playing anywhere. He is a world class left-back.

Well, your statement is reasonable, but I doubt there's many midfielders at the world cup that have the opposition planning their defense around stopping him. Do you think that's not the main concern of our opponents? He's got one beauty goal in 2 games, that's a good rate. If he get's another goal or assist against Morrocco will that be case closed?

The way I see it, if AD plays left back for us, it will be his defensive ability that will be on stage. That's not good for 2 reasons, the ball will be in our end way more than it is now, and he's not world-class defensively, imo.

[Copes]

8 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

Well, your statement is reasonable, but I doubt there's many midfielders at the world cup that have the opposition planning their defense around stopping him. Do you think that's not the main concern of our opponents? He's got one beauty goal in 2 games, that's a good rate. If he get's another goal or assist against Morrocco will that be case closed?

The way I see it, if AD plays left back for us, it will be his defensive ability that will be on stage. That's not good for 2 reasons, the ball will be in our end way more than it is now, and he's not world-class defensively, imo.

I guess from the standpoint of world class for me, I look at where he has seen value rising and success. He is currently one of, if not the, most valuable players playing in the left-back position on the planet. Transfermarkt has him at #1 in that position. Anything could change of course, but he simply hasn't been tested at the highest levels as an attacking winger like he has at left-back. This is really his first chance to shine. He did score a great goal. But to answer your question no, another goal won't end the debate. I don't think anyone would suggest Enner Valencia is on par with Mbappe despite them both currently having 3 goals. Mbappe is world class in his position because of consistent performance. Davies got moved out of an attacking midfielder position to excel elsewhere. 

Davies is a great modern fullback because he does have tons of attacking potential but he also has speed and is solid defensively. Modern fullback still overlap with the offense on the wing. I think he has proven he can excel in that position. He has the capability to set up goals and score a few of them as well from the fullback position, but he can also help our struggling backline. We are going to be on the Back foot often as demonstrated in the Croatian game. Davies' pace maybe could have helped create a counter attack from the back. Who knows. 

Jonathan David hasn't had a great tournament, but he is proving to be a phenomenal striker at club level. Buchanan's stock is rising rapidly. Theo Corbeanu is one to watch. We also have Larin and Hoilett who are very very capable offensive players. We have in my opinion far more offensive quality than we so defensive quality. I'd rather let Davies help us where we are lacking - especially given his club success (and ongoing practice) in that role. 

All that said, really appreciate the dialogue!

[GasPed]

File this under "It's great when you're winning and it's not you're not":

Is Alphonso Davies's celebrity a potential problem for Canada's men's World Cup team? | CBC Sports

[kingvikingstad]

25 minutes ago, GasPed said:

File this under "It's great when you're winning and it's not you're not":

Is Alphonso Davies's celebrity a potential problem for Canada's men's World Cup team? | CBC Sports

If journos have sources and want to clearly state some of the behind the scenes issues, I'd love to hear them. Instead, this reads like a lot of conjecture and assumptions. 

[VinceA]

38 minutes ago, GasPed said:

File this under "It's great when you're winning and it's not you're not":

Is Alphonso Davies's celebrity a potential problem for Canada's men's World Cup team? | CBC Sports

"After Davies' refusal to stop in the Croatia mixed zone, Sandra Gage, Canada Soccer's chief marketing officer, was hammered by incredulous reporters. She then tried to stop Jonathan David: She literally clasped her hands, begging him to speak. He walked right past her. "

LMAO 

This reads as part of the current issue between the players and the federation.

[InglewoodJack]

52 minutes ago, GasPed said:

File this under "It's great when you're winning and it's not you're not":

Is Alphonso Davies's celebrity a potential problem for Canada's men's World Cup team? | CBC Sports

Not that it is, but this reads like a Canada Soccer propaganda hit piece. They're framing it like Davies and David have beef with the team and are being selfish rockstars, but if this is anything beyond guys not wanting to speak to press after a bad loss, they probably don't think they owe Canada Soccer the privilege. Which they don't.

 

I just hope that the players don't start refusing call ups after the World Cup. The Gold Cup is obviously important, so is the potential Copa America, but for players of their stature, it might be worth it to give the finger to the national team for the next four years until changes are made. Hope that isn't the case.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Chris Jones, you are not very good at your job. This read to me a bit like a recent Steve Simmons piece. I hope Wayne Simmonds puts you on his hit list.

[narduch]

The media love access.

Thats why they are having a go at Davies now.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, GasPed said:

File this under "It's great when you're winning and it's not you're not":

Is Alphonso Davies's celebrity a potential problem for Canada's men's World Cup team? | CBC Sports

Davies celebrity is not an issue. It’s his ego. He needs to stop calling his card on every opportunity. Why he thinks he should be taking set pieces and penalties is baffling. Not to mention his refusal to pass the ball at times when all other 10 players would.
 

Tajon Buchanan is the anti-Davies. Flair but a team player. Davies is not unfortunately and it hurts us. This team can’t be his play toy to be a World star. If I was Herdman I would have subbed him off to send a message. Obviously that’s not realistic when 99% of Canadians are convinced he’s the reason we’re at the world cup. 
 

I love the guy but he has some maturing to do and we need to stop this. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by CanadaFan123

[VinceA]

18 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Davies celebrity is not an issue. It’s his ego. He needs to stop calling his card on every opportunity. Why he thinks he should be taking set pieces and penalties is baffling. Not to mention his refusal to pass the ball at times when all other 10 players would.
 

Tajon Buchanan is the anti-Davies. Flair but a team player. Davies is not unfortunately and it hurts us. This team can’t be his play toy to be a World star. If I was Herdman I would have subbed him off to send a message. Obviously that’s not realistic when 99% of Canadians are convinced he’s the reason we’re at the world cup. 
 

I love the guy but he has some maturing to do and we need to stop this. 

I don't know how much he is actually an ego guy, as I feel like stories would have leaked from the camp if it was truly a problem and with Atiba and Borjan talking regularly about past Canada camps with egos and problems they would snuff things out.

Ultimately on the pitch Herdman needs to be the one to reign in Davies.

[InglewoodJack]

Okay, so it seems that twitter agrees with our take, considering this insane ratio:

 

[CanadaFan123]

6 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I don't know how much he is actually an ego guy, as I feel like stories would have leaked from the camp if it was truly a problem and with Atiba and Borjan talking regularly about past Canada camps with egos and problems they would snuff things out.

Ultimately on the pitch Herdman needs to be the one to reign in Davies.

Maybe ego isn’t he right word but he clearly thinks he can take the World on. He doesn’t do it at club level so the fact he thinks he can at the World Cup is naive. I love confidence but a line needs to be drawn. 

[jonovision]

8 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Maybe ego isn’t he right word but he clearly thinks he can take the World on. He doesn’t do it at club level so the fact he thinks he can at the World Cup is naive. I love confidence but a line needs to be drawn. 

I don't think it's that he thinks he can, it's that he thinks he has to because he teammates for Canada are so far below the level of Bayern. He's not entirely wrong either.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, jonovision said:

I don't think it's that he thinks he can, it's that he thinks he has to because he teammates for Canada are so far below the level of Bayern. He's not entirely wrong either.

This is my thought as well.  When Bayern go down a goal or even two, or just need a goal, everyone including him know that they have every tool possible to more often than not make the situation right.  It is immaturity on his part, but it is also born from the experience that we don't always have that, especially at this level.  So he tries to do what he did as kid in Edmonton, dribble from one end of the pitch to the other and score a goal.  Not literally, but something like that has creep into his mind.  We need to get better and in turn he needs to learn to trust more. 

[InglewoodJack]

It’s also true of any sport that even superstars take a few years to develop into a team first mentality. This doesn’t mean he’s selfish or egotistical, more that it’s a lot easier to use your skills to make a good play for yourself than it is to make a good play for your teammate, especially one below your skill level, especially playing a position you don’t play at club level. 
 

And also not to say that he doesn’t do this already, but we can expect that aspect of his game to continue to grow.

Another part of that article that I originally missed is the point about his earrings being worth more than James Pantemis’ entire salary. Like… what? Pocket watching is so corny.

[CanadaFan123]

38 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I don't think it's that he thinks he can, it's that he thinks he has to because he teammates for Canada are so far below the level of Bayern. He's not entirely wrong either.

Well that’s a theory but no, he is entirely wrong. His teammates qualified for the World Cup without him so if that’s his thought process we have serious issues. No current player in the World can carry their team at a World Cup… certainly not Davies. 
 

Some of his selfish play was downright embarrassing. He hasn’t been our best player so there’s no justifying it. 

[VinceA]

I have my theory a bit that at this tournament Davies might be feeling more like he doesn't want to be a provider he wants to be a goalscorer, which is wrong IMO his best plays for us have been as a chance creator.

We'll see how he plays against Morocco.

[clamlinguine]

2 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Davies celebrity is not an issue. It’s his ego. He needs to stop calling his card on every opportunity. Why he thinks he should be taking set pieces and penalties is baffling. Not to mention his refusal to pass the ball at times when all other 10 players would.
 

Tajon Buchanan is the anti-Davies. Flair but a team player. Davies is not unfortunately and it hurts us. This team can’t be his play toy to be a World star. If I was Herdman I would have subbed him off to send a message. Obviously that’s not realistic when 99% of Canadians are convinced he’s the reason we’re at the world cup. 
 

I love the guy but he has some maturing to do and we need to stop this. 

Typical Donkey Canadian media doing their best to make sure we don't get to have nice things. Fretting over Davies taking free kicks, as if anyone would do any better. Last I heard there was one goal scored off a set piece in the entire world cup. Is that right?

[youllneverwalkalone]

If the article fretted over free kicks or penalty taking we could all discuss it intelligently, but when you start talking about the kid's jewelry and suggesting he's not a leader because he doesn't look or act like Sidney Crosby you are venturing into dangerous territory. I hate outrage, cancel culture and twitter in general but I'm glad the twitter police were out there today because all that sounded like a dog whistle to me, and I'm generally pretty oblivious.

I cannot say it enough that these young, mostly black, mostly first generation Canadians, mostly from Brampton kids have been the absolute best representation of our country and anyone who says otherwise is a total fucking idiot.

 

[dyslexic nam]

This is a complicated one to unpack. And like most things there are truths to be found in it.  The main thing is that it doesn’t become a big issue in the team.  The reality is that we have all watched Davies try to play hero ball when better options were available - and many many times we have conceded possession as a result. And if we notice it, don’t you think his professional footy teammates would as well.  Of course they see it. And if him doing this results in us turning over possession too much (and we can all recall games where this was quite conspicuous) of course they are going to be a bit pissed.  Anyone who has played sports has been pissed off at a teammate who has tried to do too much - especially if it is a frequent occurrence.  

And as much as we don’t know the truth behind the PK decision, the reality is that he clearly took control of it and flubbed it.  Yes, Courtois is an absolute monster.  And yes, anyone else might have missed it too.  But he took control at a genuinely massive moment in the narrative of Canadian soccer and he wasted it - not because he missed but because it was poorly done.  

He is told constantly that he is the saviour of Canadian soccer - of course he is going to start believing it at some point.   And unfortunately this idea is even present among many here.   Not trying to be an ass but

39 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

Fretting over Davies taking free kicks, as if anyone would do any better.

As a matter of fact, I think we do have guys with better dead ball deliveries.  Staq has pretty consistently been excellent.  I have also read lots of posts about how he was the obvious choice for the PK, even though we have guys who statistically have excellent PK stats like David or Vitoria.   And we have guys who have consistently taken better corners (Staq and Hoilett).  Etc.    

None of this takes away from Davies massive contributions to the team.   He is immense - an absolute crown jewel in our program.  But that doesn’t make him the de facto best at everything or the guy who single-handedly drags this team to victory.  Anyone who thinks this, or who thinks that he somehow should be given absolutely freedom to do whatever he wants  at the expense of team play, is clearly forgetting how well we played when he wasn’t here.  Yes, he is playing at an elite level with his club - but he isn’t even close to our only player used to facing excellent competition or who can be a difference-maker in a game (we have 4 guys who have played on the CL recently). No one is bigger than the team.   And there is a real possibility that this sort of perception could impact the team - especially if he is the one projecting it.  

Admittedly there is lots of speculation there.  But if you consider the image rights issue, the hero ball that likely leaves other frustrated, the constant and almost exclusive focus by the media on Davies as the reason for our success, it seems like a pretty reasonable conclusion to draw.  

The last thing I will say in light of the whole Herdman debate is that this is one area where I wonder if he is up to the task.  It is one thing to get a locker room focused on a singular goal.  But managing through this sort of complex interpersonal dynamic while maintaining that team cohesion - especially when we have a WC hangover in the coming year or two - will be a massive challenge.  I hope he is up for it.  
 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by dyslexic nam

[Gian-Luca]

Glad to see Chris Jones ruin his own credibility- I seem to recall he had a horrible article about the men’s team around the time of the player’s strike, this proves it wasn’t a fluke. I’ve never seen such unanimous contempt for an article on Twitter before,  which is saying something.

[Mattd97]

The tearing down of Davies is as predictable as it is sad

[youllneverwalkalone]

To the "hero ball" criticism, that is a tactical issue. If AD had his way, I'm sure he'd be blowing past defenders on the flank. Croatia sucked him into the middle and neutralized him there.