Unnamed Trialist Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Went back and looked at it, from the start: he was clearly asked to go to the top of the box to support the attack. On the play he doesn't retreat until late because he's trying to anticipate going forward. For me, poor choice by the coach, use speed width wide to stretch the defence and keep your shape going into 30 minutes with the home crowd pushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, El Diego said: He didn't play the counter well, but it wasn't necessarily easy to play. The sub from Nagelsmann was also dumb. For me, its a bit like if Herdman subbed Adekugbe on to play in a back 3 for the first time in his life in a round of 16 WC match which is level very late in the game, and to boot, asked him to organize the backline for a counter while we are outnumbered 3-2 and while he is facing his own goal, with the ball to one side of him and one of his opponents that outnumber him on his blind side on his blind side. Or to take it another level down, its akin to Bob Bradley asking Jacob Shaffelburg to play in a back three for the first time in his life for TFC in a V-Cup semi-final match and be the backline offside-trap organizer/springer. In such a scenario, the goathorns/bonehead move would naturally be awarded to the coach. I don't understand the throwing-the-kitchen-sink experimental thinking when they were not down a goal. Fullbacks/wingbacks typically have precious little experience at being the ones to organize offside traps to neuter counterattacks, particularly when they are forced to face their own goal on the play. For me it's not the timing of the sub which is a problem for Davies (you have to be prepared to play no matter time you are put on) but positionally. If you are going to sub out one of the back three, Nagelsman should have put Sule back there, not Davies, someone with a bit more experience in organizing a back line (if you can count 2 players as a line, that is). Davies should have come on for Coman, who was hitting woeful passes the whole night and only once that I recall beat his man to do anything dangerous. Ivan, GasPed and Unnamed Trialist 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasPed Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Well, he's never played as an LCB before, so there's that. Then, that counter from Villareal was very well-executed, and took advantage of numbers, speed and a lack of communication on Bayern's part. As soon as they start the counter Davies is running with Chukwueze on his right, trailing him to make sure he's got him offside. What he doesn't realize until it's too late is that Kimmich on the other side is leaving Moreno and stepping up (maybe to play the offside trap). At that very moment Lo Celso plays Moreno through (who's onside because of Davies) and now it's 2 v 1, and Davies has no chance. So the goal is partly on Davies for not recognizing what Kimmich was doing, partly on Kimmich for taking such a big risk at that point in the game, and partly on the coach for putting a complete newbie like Davies into a position he has never played before, trying to defend a counter in a back 3 with guys (Kimmich and Upamecano) that he's not used to positioning with. In short, a gong show, against an opportunistic team that has a habit of banging the gong at just the right time.... Cadeau, gator and Unnamed Trialist 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frmr Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, GasPed said: Well, he's never played as an LCB before, so there's that. Then, that counter from Villareal was very well-executed, and took advantage of numbers, speed and a lack of communication on Bayern's part. As soon as they start the counter Davies is running with Chukwueze on his right, trailing him to make sure he's got him offside. What he doesn't realize until it's too late is that Kimmich on the other side is leaving Moreno and stepping up (maybe to play the offside trap). At that very moment Lo Celso plays Moreno through (who's onside because of Davies) and now it's 2 v 1, and Davies has no chance. So the goal is partly on Davies for not recognizing what Kimmich was doing, partly on Kimmich for taking such a big risk at that point in the game, and partly on the coach for putting a complete newbie like Davies into a position he has never played before, trying to defend a counter in a back 3 with guys (Kimmich and Upamecano) that he's not used to positioning with. In short, a gong show, against an opportunistic team that has a habit of banging the gong at just the right time.... The goal was mostly on Nagelsmann. You don't bring on an attacking LB to play them at LCB for the first time ever, with a few minutes left in a knockout tie where a goal would knock you out. Like what the fuck? Unbelievable decision. king1010, gator, Unnamed Trialist and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoaleks Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 “Eye test “ AD looked lazy on the play gator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod818 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Media seems to be more focused on Nagelsmans strategy than singling out any player for the loss from the clips I’ve watched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGAA_Star Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Bayern managing to go out at the hands of Villarreal...it really doesn't surprise me. Bayern underestimated Villarreal and paid for it not only in the first leg but here in the return leg even if it ended 1-1 but on aggregate Villarreal moves on. I love it when underdogs beat favorites especially in Champions League. Still doesn't change the fact that Bayern really haven't been all that great in this Champions League campaign to begin with. But also in the Bundesliga, they have been underwhelming too as of late. So this was bound to happen to them sooner or later. Just have to regroup for next season for Champions League for the 22/23 season. Just focus on winning yet another Bundesliga title at this point now. Obinna and Unnamed Trialist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamptern Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) Never mind. Edited April 13, 2022 by lamptern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) Post-match Nagelsman was asked about the bizarre Davies substitution (as its not just us who noticed that Davies was asked to play an unfamiliar position) and explained that Hernandez picked up an injury and so forced his hand, and he wanted someone with some speed to play CB to match the speedy player Villareal brought on. Unless you count Hernandez (who switches between LB & CB), they only played one proper CB the whole match, did they really only have one dressed in Upamecano? Sule isn't exactly known for being Ronald Koeman-like in terms of a lack of speed. He also pointed the finger somewhat at Muller for not scoring on that header he had in the 2nd half, which, depending on what the question was that brought out that finger-pointing, seems a little cheesy to me. https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2022/4/13/23022773/bayern-munich-julian-nagelsmann-thomas-muller-nagelsmann-lewandowski-villarreal-champions-league Edited April 13, 2022 by Gian-Luca DeRo_Is_King, Unnamed Trialist, Obinna and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Gian-Luca said: Post-match Nagelsman was asked about the bizarre Davies substitution (as its not just us who noticed that Davies was asked to play an unfamiliar position) and explained that Hernandez picked up an injury and so forced his hand, and he wanted someone with some speed to play CB to match the speedy player Villareal brought on. Unless you count Hernandez (who switches between LB & CB), they only played one proper CB the whole match, did they really only have one dressed in Upamecano? Sule isn't exactly known for being Ronald Koeman-like in terms of a lack of speed. He also pointed the finger somewhat at Muller for not scoring on that header he had in the 2nd half, which, depending on what the question was that brought out that finger-pointing, seems a little cheesy to me. https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2022/4/13/23022773/bayern-munich-julian-nagelsmann-thomas-muller-nagelsmann-lewandowski-villarreal-champions-league That may be the Peter Principle at work for Nagelsman there. With that match especially, they were not outplayed by an inferior rival, but were definitely outcoached and outsmarted. Read this about the rival coach: "Excluding his time at Paris Saint-Germain from 2016-18, Emery has won 22 consecutive two-leg knockout encounters in Europe since 2015 -- with Sevilla, Arsenal and Villarreal." It also could end up being the start of rebuilding for the team, and see how that could affect Davies. And more so people start seeing how effective he is for Canada in a more advanced role. Sule is leaving, Lewandowski rumoured out too. Müller is finally reaching his twighlight. They still don't have a replacement striker of any quality and don't have pure wing play either. Neuer is great but has brain farts (first leg he was lucky to survive one). Cadeau and johnyb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 6 hours ago, Gian-Luca said: He also pointed the finger somewhat at Muller for not scoring on that header he had in the 2nd half, which, depending on what the question was that brought out that finger-pointing, seems a little cheesy to me. https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2022/4/13/23022773/bayern-munich-julian-nagelsmann-thomas-muller-nagelsmann-lewandowski-villarreal-champions-league Radio Muller loves the lime light, so he needs to take the stones and arrows that go with it. Bad miss there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, BearcatSA said: Radio Muller loves the lime light, so he needs to take the stones and arrows that go with it. Bad miss there. I'm not really concerned with Muller's feelings getting hurt - he survived the previous huge miss (even worse one IMO) in the Euros, I expect a veteran like him (who is probably close to Nagelsmann's age) has handled it before & will again. I just find the Whataboutism excuse-making by a coach who made many more significant errors to be the sort of bush-league thing that John Carver used to do at TFC in the club's early horror years. Again, all this depends on the context of the question that was posed to him (assuming he was even responding to a question), but the main reason why Muller's miss is so significant is because Nagelsmann was outcoached over two legs and never seemed to have any sort of plan B when plan A didn't work out well at all in the first leg. Unless of course throwing Davies as CB & Gnabry as a central attacking midfielder late in a match you aren't even losing was meant to be plan B, but it doesn't sound like it. Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said: I'm not really concerned with Muller's feelings getting hurt - he survived the previous huge miss (even worse one IMO) in the Euros, I expect a veteran like him (who is probably close to Nagelsmann's age) has handled it before & will again. I just find the Whataboutism excuse-making by a coach who made many more significant errors to be the sort of bush-league thing that John Carver used to do at TFC in the club's early horror years. Again, all this depends on the context of the question that was posed to him (assuming he was even responding to a question), but the main reason why Muller's miss is so significant is because Nagelsmann was outcoached over two legs and never seemed to have any sort of plan B when plan A didn't work out well at all in the first leg. Unless of course throwing Davies as CB & Gnabry as a central attacking midfielder late in a match you aren't even losing was meant to be plan B, but it doesn't sound like it. I agree with you. I'm just talking about the miss. Radio Muller might be coming to an MLS team sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: "Excluding his time at Paris Saint-Germain from 2016-18, Emery has won 22 consecutive two-leg knockout encounters in Europe since 2015 -- with Sevilla, Arsenal and Villarreal." That is remarkable. Wow. Edited April 14, 2022 by maccaliam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Starting v Arminia Bielefeld. This one is on the normal Sportsnet channels dyslexic nam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Of the three with expiring contracts in 2023, I get the sense that Lewandowski will be the one they will want to keep. There’s not an out and out goalscorer that does what he does and also helps out in other areas. Next would be Muller then Neuer. All are getting up there and can’t see Bayern breaking their financial prudence signing more than one of them on a medium to long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) How is that not a foul on Davies? EDIT: was an own goal EDIT: put it on the wrong post but screw it, I am leaving it. Happy Easter everyone. Edited April 17, 2022 by dyslexic nam canuckgbp, Fresh Prince of MTL, MtlMario and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Assisted Lewa on the opening goal. canuckgbp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) Nice assist on the first goal. Edit: might be taken away as it was an own goal. Edited April 17, 2022 by TOcanadafan canuckgbp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckgbp Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Great header that leads to the goal. Looks like own goal so no assist. dyslexic nam and TOcanadafan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Should have been another assist but Goretzka can’t finish. canuckgbp and Fresh Prince of MTL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckgbp Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Why is Davies more involved? It is simple... Sane no where in sight lol. TOcanadafan, Xavier., dyslexic nam and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 May not have had the highest game score (on FotMob anyways), but definitely MOTM. clamlinguine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFL19 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Davies was dominant today...and man he hit a banger that was inches from the top corner off his weak feet. clamlinguine, apbsmith, GasPed and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbsmith Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 He's sooooo good. His offensive play today reminded me of what I felt was our CMNT turning point in that 2-0 win vs USA in nations league where he was asked to play offensive and scored the opening goal. "Alphonso Davies popped up at the back post to guide Scott Arfield's cross over the goal line in the 63rd minute". Glad to see him rebound with such a strong performance today after his 5 min CL letdown appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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