The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[narduch]

59 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Risk capital, venture capital. 

I am not going to get into what general knowledge about finances should or should not be.

I just assume they refer to investment or risk funds buying teams, with no interest in the team, the fans, the sport. Neither Bayern Munich nor Werder Bremen are in that situation though, I think both are locally owned and run, but of course many teams in world football face such juggernauts.

Just a comment, to @narduch and others, the teams pushing for the Super League like Barça and Madrid are both fan-owned. I am a club member, and vote as such, and have a say, in all decisions. That said, I am against the Super League and think it is completely misgiven.

Don't they have venture capital backing for all of this though?

I'm  not totally familiar with what exactly A22 Sports is

[red card]

4 hours ago, clamlinguine said:

Venture capital? That's not a bad thing is it? But they must be referring to something else. Any specific allegations out there?

They have been protesting a number of things this season. But this weekend, it is largely about 24 German football clubs who voted on Dec 11th to secure private equity money in return for a share of TV rights. 10 voted against, while 2 abstained in a secret ballot. 

The deal is looking to sell 6-9% of media rights for 20 years in return for €800m-€1b. DFL will use the monies to improve it's international marketing, including the creation of a streaming platform. In 2021, La Liga sold a portion of it's media rights to private equity firm CVC for €2b. Serie A failed to do a similar deal in 2021 but is trying again this year. 

All D1 & D2 German clubs agree on the strategy but some question whether outside investors are needed. The financial gap is widening between the Prem and other leagues. If the trend continues, the Prem will become a Super League on it's own. Chelsea by itself have outspent all Bundesliga clubs this season. Premier clubs have outspend the remaining big 5 leagues by almost 4x.

With the fans totally against changing the 50+1 ownership rule, the DFL had to look at pulling other levers. The fans are worried the outside investors will have say on kick-off times, move matches abroad and/or introduce playoffs. DFL says "red lines" won't be crossed.

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

27 minutes ago, red card said:

They have been protesting a number of things this season. But this weekend, it is largely about 24 German football clubs who voted on Dec 11th to secure private equity money in return for a share of TV rights. 10 voted against, while 2 abstained in a secret ballot. 

The deal is looking to sell 6-9% of media rights for 20 years in return for €800m-€1b. DFL will use the monies to improve it's international marketing, including the creation of a streaming platform. In 2021, La Liga sold a portion of it's media rights to private equity firm CVC for €2b. Serie A failed to do a similar deal in 2021 but is trying again this year. 

All D1 & D2 German clubs agree on the strategy but some question whether outside investors are needed. The financial gap is widening between the Prem and other leagues. If the trend continues, the Prem will become a Super League on it's own. Chelsea by itself have outspent all Bundesliga clubs this season. Premier clubs have outspend the remaining big 5 leagues by almost 4x.

With the fans totally against changing the 50+1 ownership rule, the DFL had to look at pulling other levers. The fans are worried the outside investors will have say on kick-off times, move matches abroad and/or introduce playoffs. DFL says "red lines" won't be crossed.

 

Excellent summary, part of this fits for me now, thanks. 

The Liga sold their media rights to CVC for that sum, but I think the deal is for decades, and you can't back out. Barça refused, I think Real Madrid and Athletic Club as well, since they are the three main teams who are fan-owned and controlled (Osasuna is as well). I am pleased we did not sell our rights that way, it is a sort of CSB equivalent, you sell for an immediate cash injection, but mid to long term it could be proven to be a mediocre to bad deal.

In Spain it has indeed affected game times, as no two matches ever coincide, and lesser teams are getting worse game times, including Fridays and Mondays. This is something the league insisted on anyways, because they felt it was the best way to rival the EPL in world reach, as well as give something both to the Asian market and the Americas market. But that could be seen as independent in part of CVC.

I think CVC tried to get Bundesliga rights too.

Edited January 21 by Unnamed Trialist

[costarg]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

In Spain it has indeed affected game times, as no two matches ever coincide, and lesser teams are getting worse game times, including Fridays and Mondays. This is something the league insisted on anyways, because they felt it was the best way to rival the EPL in world reach, as well as give something both to the Asian market and the Americas market. But that could be seen as independent in part of CVC.

And MLS/Apple does the complete opposite, where it's now very difficult to catch two games the same weekend.  I really miss the Friday and Sunday night games.

[InglewoodJack]

More news out of Bavarian press that Bayern is unhappy with Davies’ recent performances and they think that this has to do with the Madrid rumours- he hasn’t discussed his new contract since last spring apparently.

I don’t recall the last time I heard something positive about Davies at Bayern, so if their speculation is true and he does end up at Madrid, we’re going to see one hell of a leap from him, I’d assume. 

[Joe1973]

Yeah was also listening to one of the ESPN podcasts, and neutral observers noticed the same thing. His performances have really been underwhelming; could be because of the speculations or could be in-line with the club struggles too.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

More news out of Bavarian press that Bayern is unhappy with Davies’ recent performances and they think that this has to do with the Madrid rumours- he hasn’t discussed his new contract since last spring apparently.

I don’t recall the last time I heard something positive about Davies at Bayern, so if their speculation is true and he does end up at Madrid, we’re going to see one hell of a leap from him, I’d assume. 

I don't recall the last time I heard something positive about Bayern.

It looks like Leroy Sane contract talks have stalled too, so it's not just Davies.

I saw a headline that read: "Is Goretzka becoming frustrated with Tuchel".

...And here's another one: "Lothar Matthaus criticizes Bayer's transfer policy and signing of Eric Dier".

Bayern are also 7 points back of a read hot Leverkusen, who by the way have no European distractions.

All in all, things at Bayern aren't looking great in general. I wouldn't blame Davies for wanting to leave and I think any backlash towards Davies would be a fraction of the amount of things were going well in Bavaria.

I also think the writing was on the wall when they brought in Tuchel. Never have been wowed by him to be honest. Always struck me as an unimaginative, if not lazy appointment. 

 

[Joe1973]

That's it. Let's see how this plays out but it's a circus there right now...on the podcast I was listening to, Davies was item #10 more or less on the list of problems at Bayern in terms of culture. Kimmich also seems to be fighting with management.

[Unnamed Trialist]

After watching most of last match, I realized there's no way he'd be playing like that at Real Madrid. Or at any Liga team in fact. It's wrong as I see it. They make no effort to ensure he's effective going forward. His wing is clogged, he drifts inside too early, he rarely receives where his speed can be used, then he's positionally tethered in a way that restricts him to short insignificant passes. 

Ageing, slow, workaday Carvajal at Madrid is far more effective in both directions. Balde at Barça LB is better, and he's not at all a better player. It's coaching, mostly, he's not set up right. 

[costarg]

56 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't recall the last time I heard something positive about Bayern.

It looks like Leroy Sane contract talks have stalled too, so it's not just Davies.

I saw a headline that read: "Is Goretzka becoming frustrated with Tuchel".

...And here's another one: "Lothar Matthaus criticizes Bayer's transfer policy and signing of Eric Dier".

Bayern are also 7 points back of a read hot Leverkusen, who by the way have no European distractions.

All in all, things at Bayern aren't looking great in general. I wouldn't blame Davies for wanting to leave and I think any backlash towards Davies would be a fraction of the amount of things were going well in Bavaria.

I also think the writing was on the wall when they brought in Tuchel. Never have been wowed by him to be honest. Always struck me as an unimaginative, if not lazy appointment. 

 

[InglewoodJack]

53 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't recall the last time I heard something positive about Bayern.

It looks like Leroy Sane contract talks have stalled too, so it's not just Davies.

I saw a headline that read: "Is Goretzka becoming frustrated with Tuchel".

...And here's another one: "Lothar Matthaus criticizes Bayer's transfer policy and signing of Eric Dier".

Bayern are also 7 points back of a read hot Leverkusen, who by the way have no European distractions.

All in all, things at Bayern aren't looking great in general. I wouldn't blame Davies for wanting to leave and I think any backlash towards Davies would be a fraction of the amount of things were going well in Bavaria.

I also think the writing was on the wall when they brought in Tuchel. Never have been wowed by him to be honest. Always struck me as an unimaginative, if not lazy appointment. 

 

I think it’s just end of the road for Bayern. Happens with all dynasties- Manchester United, New England Patriots, Golden state Warriors, etc. Bayern will win a championship next season and many over the next few seasons, but I think this iteration of the group is done. Davies is slumping, Sane won’t resign, Neuer is getting quite old, Kimmich May leave, they seem to have only one CB they really trust, and despite all his goals, Harry Kane can’t save this team. 

My preference is for Bayern to win the title this year, Davies gets back to form, they win another 10 straight and Davies ends his career a Bayern legend with one of the fullest trophy cases in the history of the sport, but I think it’s probably better for Leverkeusen to win the league as an underdog and for Bayern to take a long look at themselves in the mirror and do what they need to do to retool. That retool probably doesn’t include Davies. Good thing is that his form hasn’t affected the interest from abroad though. 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think it’s just end of the road for Bayern. Happens with all dynasties- Manchester United, New England Patriots, Golden state Warriors, etc. Bayern will win a championship next season and many over the next few seasons, but I think this iteration of the group is done. Davies is slumping, Sane won’t resign, Neuer is getting quite old, Kimmich May leave, they seem to have only one CB they really trust, and despite all his goals, Harry Kane can’t save this team. 

My preference is for Bayern to win the title this year, Davies gets back to form, they win another 10 straight and Davies ends his career a Bayern legend with one of the fullest trophy cases in the history of the sport, but I think it’s probably better for Leverkeusen to win the league as an underdog and for Bayern to take a long look at themselves in the mirror and do what they need to do to retool. That retool probably doesn’t include Davies. Good thing is that his form hasn’t affected the interest from abroad though. 

The point of my post was to challenge the idea that Davies is "slumping".

I haven't been watching the games lately, so if you have and he's indeed been poor, I will trust your opinion. It's just that right now I am skeptical and won't put much stock in any opinions coming from Bayern fans.

FWIW I have been following along via his match ratings, which have generally been good.

But with that said, I do think Bayern is due for a reset. I just feel bad for Kane if they go without winning a trophy. Dude literally left England for that very purpose and there isn't a more sure bet than Bayern to win something. 

[InglewoodJack]

50 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

After watching most of last match, I realized there's no way he'd be playing like that at Real Madrid. Or at any Liga team in fact. It's wrong as I see it. They make no effort to ensure he's effective going forward. His wing is clogged, he drifts inside too early, he rarely receives where his speed can be used, then he's positionally tethered in a way that restricts him to short insignificant passes. 

Ageing, slow, workaday Carvajal at Madrid is far more effective in both directions. Balde at Barça LB is better, and he's not at all a better player. It's coaching, mostly, he's not set up right. 

Plus with Madrid, they have Bellingham playing as a striker when they have the ball, Vini and Rodrygo become more or less wingers, and the remaining 3 midfielders cover the middle of the park.  On the left side, it would just be Davies -> Vini -> Jude in the box all day. Would be some of the most exciting football on the planet I would think.

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

The point of my post was to challenge the idea that Davies is "slumping".

I haven't been watching the games lately, so if you have and he's indeed been poor, I will trust your opinion. It's just that right now I am skeptical and won't put much stock in any opinions coming from Bayern fans.

FWIW I have been following along via his match ratings, which have generally been good.

But with that said, I do think Bayern is due for a reset. I just feel bad for Kane if they go without winning a trophy. Dude literally left England for that very purpose and there isn't a more sure bet than Bayern to win something. 

Oh for sure- I just went off on a tangent. I just don’t think it’s one of those things where you can point to one player, it’s just that it’s very hard to win 14 titles in a row, eventually a few things don’t go your way, a challenger has a historic season where they have like 5 different players take a massive leap and all their transfers hit on the money. Tuchel isn’t a great fit, you’d expect more from some of your players including Davies, maybe you hope Musiala is a bit further along than he is now? Etc., but I think they were bound to eventually have a season like this. 
 

As for Davies performances, I watch Bayern whenever I can, and he looks fine but a lot of times he doesn’t get involved. I don’t think that’s all on him and it has to do with formation. I do think though if what others are saying is right- Bayern is in tactical disarray and Davies is particularly unmotivated due to the rumours (which on his end I would assume are closer to facts), then when he does end up at a new club, especially someone that designs an offense with his skill set and abilities in mind, he’s going to look very, very good. If what we’re seeing is poor Davies, then when he hits his stride again, it’ll be scary. 

[kacbru]

5 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I just feel bad for Kane if they go without winning a trophy. Dude literally left England for that very purpose and there isn't a more sure bet than Bayern to win something.

Just proves that it is hard to wash off the Spursy taint.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Plus with Madrid, they have Bellingham playing as a striker when they have the ball, Vini and Rodrygo become more or less wingers, and the remaining 3 midfielders cover the middle of the park.  On the left side, it would just be Davies -> Vini -> Jude in the box all day. Would be some of the most exciting football on the planet I would think.

I think he could have some problems at RM with Vinicius as well. Because he's technically an inverted attacker, but very often can make beautiful runs around on his left, finding the end line and jinking in. 

But he'd be the wider player, and Vinicius would be finding him on the overlap.

But still, technically if Bayern still had Ribéry on the left, inverted, Davies would have an open lane to attack, and that is the only scenario where playing him at LB makes sense in attack. You run into the open space the winger creates when cutting in, giving him that outside option. How often do we see this at Bayern? Almost never. Then, when the ball is on the other side of the midfield, they have him pinch into the top of the box on the left, where he rarely gets the ball, and rarely is useful. Again, he should be out wider, a clear outside option for the long horizontal change. Almost never. 

Since Davies is apparently told to not get caught up, he doesn't and takes no risks. No runs, no passes, no risks. 

Then they complain about his play. 

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I don't recall the last time I heard something positive about Bayern.

It looks like Leroy Sane contract talks have stalled too, so it's not just Davies.

I saw a headline that read: "Is Goretzka becoming frustrated with Tuchel".

...And here's another one: "Lothar Matthaus criticizes Bayer's transfer policy and signing of Eric Dier".

Bayern are also 7 points back of a read hot Leverkusen, who by the way have no European distractions.

All in all, things at Bayern aren't looking great in general. I wouldn't blame Davies for wanting to leave and I think any backlash towards Davies would be a fraction of the amount of things were going well in Bavaria.

I also think the writing was on the wall when they brought in Tuchel. Never have been wowed by him to be honest. Always struck me as an unimaginative, if not lazy appointment. 

 

Leverkusen are in the Europa League and have to be considered second favourites to win the competition.

[SthMelbRed]

I think it's fair to say that a lot of Bayern's on-field troubles are down to Tuchel being a bellend.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Leverkusen are in the Europa League and have to be considered second favourites to win the competition.

Right. Don't know why I thought they were not in Europe. Appreciate the correction.

[PegCityCam]

On 1/12/2024 at 6:14 PM, PegCityCam said:

Made a tackle and quick pass to Goretzka who found Kane for the third goal. Also had an 8.5 on fotmob. Imo he's far clear of any other nats and nobody's reaching his level for at least a good few years yet. Again just my opinion.

 

Wtf is this thread?! Stop it with the "I haven't heard anything great from him in forever" BS. 

[PegCityCam]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

The point of my post was to challenge the idea that Davies is "slumping".

I haven't been watching the games lately, so if you have and he's indeed been poor, I will trust your opinion. It's just that right now I am skeptical and won't put much stock in any opinions coming from Bayern fans.

FWIW I have been following along via his match ratings, which have generally been good.

But with that said, I do think Bayern is due for a reset. I just feel bad for Kane if they go without winning a trophy. Dude literally left England for that very purpose and there isn't a more sure bet than Bayern to win something. 

He hasnt been playing poorly. He's had ratings of 8.5, 8.0, 8.6 and 7.4 in his last 4 matches. He's doing very well except the last match where he was still third highest on the team despite the loss. People need to stop buying into rumours and hearsay about how he's doing and actually watch the games/look at the analytics.

Edited January 23 by PegCityCam

[Joe1973]

I acknowledge I haven't seen too many games of Bayern, so im going based on this:

starting at 17:40 they have a 2 minute chat about him. 

 

[GasPed]

57 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think he could have some problems at RM with Vinicius as well. Because he's technically an inverted attacker, but very often can make beautiful runs around on his left, finding the end line and jinking in. 

But he'd be the wider player, and Vinicius would be finding him on the overlap.

But still, technically if Bayern still had Ribéry on the left, inverted, Davies would have an open lane to attack, and that is the only scenario where playing him at LB makes sense in attack. You run into the open space the winger creates when cutting in, giving him that outside option. How often do we see this at Bayern? Almost never. Then, when the ball is on the other side of the midfield, they have him pinch into the top of the box on the left, where he rarely gets the ball, and rarely is useful. Again, he should be out wider, a clear outside option for the long horizontal change. Almost never. 

Since Davies is apparently told to not get caught up, he doesn't and takes no risks. No runs, no passes, no risks. 

Then they complain about his play. 

Your observations are spot on, as in, they capture Davies' recent issues, especially under Tuchel:

1. Under Nagelsmann, Davies had free reign (in fact was encouraged) to go as far forward as he liked - which often had him at the opponents touchline.  Nagelsmann also deliberately shifted the formation from a back 4 to a back 3 when in possession, and pushed Davies forward, trying to take advantage of his dribbling and pace to progress the ball. Tuchel on the other hand is not nearly so aggressive - he wants his CB's to pass to his mids to pass to his wingers - classic structured football.  It works most of time, until it doesn't.
2. Kingsley Coman is his ideal dance partner on the left side - he is happy to drift inside and catch Davies on the overlap.  Musiala will do the same.  Leroy Sane, not so much.  And lately Tuchel has Sane playing more on the left for some reason.
3. Tuchel's classic buildup means Davies doesn't get involved much in it.  Unless the opposing winger is well off him when he gets the ball, he doesn't get to progress it - he just has to pass back or maybe to the midfielder.  Then, when Bayern is in the opposing third, he (like everyone else on Bayern) stands around and hopes that something happens.  It's woefully stagnant and terribly unimaginative.  And it's not only an underutilization of Davies, it's pretty much underutilizing everyone on the team.

   

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, PegCityCam said:

He hasnt been playing poorly. He's had ratings of 8.5, 8.0, 8.6 and 7.4 in his last 4 matches. He's doing very well except the last match where he was still third highest on the team despite the loss. People need to stop buying into rumours and heresay about how he's doing and actually watch the games/look at the analytics.

This. I have watched a lot of Bayern this year and Davies has been playing well especially defensively and I've posted that in this thread. Even in the last game he had  a very good first half. The forwards are clicking the mids and defenders not  much. The team under Tuchel are not looking good overall. So lots of fault to go around. 

[Joe1973]

29 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

This. I have watched a lot of Bayern this year and Davies has been playing well especially defensively and I've posted that in this thread. Even in the last game he had  a very good first half. The forwards are clicking the mids and defenders not  much. The team under Tuchel are not looking good overall. So lots of fault to go around. 

It's good to hear hes not as bas as some of the comments. One of the analysts mentioned that what could limit his ability to play freely is the fact that the defenders have been so bad. As a left back if you have no confidence in your CBs, it impacts how free you are to make those runs forward.