The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[Jack1997]

Poor depth is currently and will continue to haunt Bayern this year, when Bouna Sarr is your 3rd best FB you know it’s bad. A team with good depth should not be having to play their superstar LB a full 90 against a 3rd division team, he probably shouldn’t even half to play at all. 

[SthMelbRed]

9 minutes ago, Jack1997 said:

Poor depth is currently and will continue to haunt Bayern this year, when Bouna Sarr is your 3rd best FB you know it’s bad. A team with good depth should not be having to play their superstar LB a full 90 against a 3rd division team, he probably shouldn’t even half to play at all. 

For comparison, Liverpool played against a relegation-threatened Premier League side (Bournemouth) in the League Cup today. They rolled out a starting team with only 2 players who'd be confident of a start in a do-or-die match, with everyone fit. Their entire back four and goalkeeper were changed from the first-choice XI. They still won, albeit with a winning goal from the bench.

It's wild that Phonz played the full 90.

[Shway]

Read a report that said Madrid are going to go in for Davies this summer, and would get him for under 40M due to his contract expiring the following season. 

Would be crazy to see him at Madrid for several reasons, but I also want him to leave east street Bayern. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

For comparison, Liverpool played against a relegation-threatened Premier League side (Bournemouth) in the League Cup today. They rolled out a starting team with only 2 players who'd be confident of a start in a do-or-die match, with everyone fit. Their entire back four and goalkeeper were changed from the first-choice XI. They still won, albeit with a winning goal from the bench.

It's wild that Phonz played the full 90.

I went to see first division Cadiz vs a 4th tier team today in the Cup, with 6 regular starters including Negredo, Maxi Gómez, Zaldua who spent a decade at Real Sociedad. Scoreless after 120 minutes.

Si how do you interpret that? Since every year some top team is eliminated from the Cup by a lesser rival, you could argue you should be cautious. Play the best you have. But then, if you put players 14-23 in your roster they should play harder be and inspired to take their chances. Sometimes starters can't find the motivation.

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I went to see first division Cadiz vs a 4th tier team today in the Cup, with 6 regular starters including Negredo, Maxi Gómez, Zaldua who spent a decade at Real Sociedad. Scoreless after 120 minutes.

Si how do you interpret that? Since every year some top team is eliminated from the Cup by a lesser rival, you could argue you should be cautious. Play the best you have. But then, if you put players 14-23 in your roster they should play harder be and inspired to take their chances. Sometimes starters can't find the motivation.

If Klopp had played Van Dijk or Konate, our first-choice CB pairing, last night, I'd have lost my shit. They're both too important to our overall season, and variably susceptible to injury to have been risked. It helps that we could play our next three CBs (one at RB) with every confidence that they could get the job done, since they're all brilliant players in their own rights. The only 2 nailed on first-XI players that started were Salah and Szoboslai, probably because they both begged to play. Cadiz couldn't be expected to have the kind of depth to roll out an almost entire second-XI, since they wouldn't have the squad for it. Teams that are perennially in European competition certainly should, though.

[GasPed]

7 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

For comparison, Liverpool played against a relegation-threatened Premier League side (Bournemouth) in the League Cup today. They rolled out a starting team with only 2 players who'd be confident of a start in a do-or-die match, with everyone fit. Their entire back four and goalkeeper were changed from the first-choice XI. They still won, albeit with a winning goal from the bench.

It's wild that Phonz played the full 90.

The reason Phonzie played 90 is because, through a combination of bad luck and horrible squad management, Bayern right now is spread thinner than one ply on a hairy butt.  Their backup LB is an 18 year old (Kratzig) who has very few first team minutes, but actually started today in midfield (and, it must be added, did pretty bad).  They have no backups at all at CB (De Ligt went down in this game and Kimmich had to deputize), no midfielders, no fullbacks.  They are really hurting (and it showed).

[Unnamed Trialist]

54 minutes ago, GasPed said:

The reason Phonzie played 90 is because, through a combination of bad luck and horrible squad management, Bayern right now is spread thinner than one ply on a hairy butt.  Their backup LB is an 18 year old (Kratzig) who has very few first team minutes, but actually started today in midfield (and, it must be added, did pretty bad).  They have no backups at all at CB (De Ligt went down in this game and Kimmich had to deputize), no midfielders, no fullbacks.  They are really hurting (and it showed).

Pure talent and skill, combined with the other team having weaknesses to readily expose- that should be enough when there's two tiers between them. Yesterday every single 1st division team went through in Spain, in the first round including them. A couple 2nd Division teams fell vs teams in  lower tiers. That's usually about right.

I've argued here that Germany has the best third tier in the world, however, so that should be appreciated. Those are the 37th to 54th best, the stadiums are large. But it's still Bayern.

Really there's no excuse. I saw something typical, where the young guys come up through the academy were Cadiz's best players, along with the keeper, a second string keeper for a top flight team usually being excellent. Scoreless, then held on penalties. 

Didn't watch Bayern but if people came away impressed by a couple of guys on Saarbrucken all power to them.

[GasPed]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Pure talent and skill, combined with the other team having weaknesses to readily expose- that should be enough when there's two tiers between them. Yesterday every single 1st division team went through in Spain, in the first round including them. A couple 2nd Division teams fell vs teams in  lower tiers. That's usually about right.

I've argued here that Germany has the best third tier in the world, however, so that should be appreciated. Those are the 37th to 54th best, the stadiums are large. But it's still Bayern.

Really there's no excuse. I saw something typical, where the young guys come up through the academy were Cadiz's best players, along with the keeper, a second string keeper for a top flight team usually being excellent. Scoreless, then held on penalties. 

Didn't watch Bayern but if people came away impressed by a couple of guys on Saarbrucken all power to them.

No, there really isn't a good excuse.  Bayern lost Hernandez, Pavard, Stanisic and Blind over the summer, all of whom could play CB or FB.  In return, they signed Kim Min-Jae (who only plays CB), and Guerreiro (who only plays FB, and has been injured most of the season). They also dropped Gravenberch and Sabitzer from their midfield and replaced with Laimer, which leaves 3 people (him, Kimmich and Goretzka) to man two spots, which because of illness and injury, has been an egregious fail.

The result is a team that has overworked some key players, while plugging in sub-par stopgaps - and while generally their overall attacking talent has managed to win the day, they often look listless, disorganized and sloppy.  When they play a well-rested starting XI, they are as good as anyone in the world, but the team they field on most game days now is anything but that. 

Thomas Tuchel hasn't helped matters either.  No discernible strategy/patterns.  Put it all together and I can see why young guys like Davies and Musiala might want to move on.  Hard to see a bright future when the present is somewhere between mediocre and dismal. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Der Klassiker this evening, away to Dortmund. Good test after falling in the Cup. See Bayern has won 11 of the last 13 head to heads.

They all need points in all directions and with Leverkusen trying to pull away.

[VinceA]

Davies getting some negative comments in this thread over what his actual level as a player is.

 

 

 

^ This one's a bit more hopeful

 

Seems like Bayern fans at this point are like meh whatever let him go.

 

[kacbru]

I'm not sure I would disagree with most of those comments. Still a top-level talent, but with limitations. 

[sebdeserio]

I think Bayern fans are being bit forgetful. He had a slump last year after the WC but then got back in form around January/February, until the arrival of Tucheliban. Yes he relies too much on his pace and dribbling isn't the most technical but I remember watching him under Flick and every game he'd whip in a ball on a platter for Lewa who'd miss 1-2 chances before getting his couple goals of the game. Seems to be restricted in his movement going forward under Tuchel which does him no favours.

[Kadenge]

Soild 90 mins today for Davies in Bayern's big 0-4 away win vs Dortmund. There's no doubt Tuchel wants Davies to play more defensively than he did under Flick & Nageslmann. Perhaps its impacted his play. No doubt he is better going forward.

[kacbru]

It us interesting that Davies rarely features in those weekly Canadians abroad updates - we just take it for granted that he goes his usual 90 min for one of the top clubs in the world.

90 min today in 4-0 win over Dortmund.  Lots of touches, but no Gs, As, tackles, interceptions, blocks, crosses, corners, shots.

He is clearly fulfilling his (limited by design) role at Bayern, but I'm not convinced its good for CMNT.  I don't watch him very much, but it doesn't feel like he is still developing.  I'm not sure moving to RM would be any better.

Edited November 4, 2023 by kacbru
grammar

[Bertuzzi44]

30 minutes ago, kacbru said:

He is clearly fulfilling his (limited by design) role at Bayern, but I'm not convinced its good for CMNT.  I don't watch him very much, but it doesn't feel like he is still developing.  I'm not sure moving to RM would be any better.

It would if they gave him a expanded role or challenged him more.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Bertuzzi44

[kacbru]

13 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

It would if they gave him a expanded role or challenged him more.

Agreed - I'm just not sure that would be the case.  There is also a chance they see what he does at Bayern and think - we need more of that.

[maccaliam]

They could also see him as Marcelo-style “defender”. If so, he would certainly get his opportunities to attack. 

[DeRo_Is_King]

53 minutes ago, kacbru said:

It us interesting that Davies rarely features in those weekly Canadians abroad updates - we just take it for granted that he goes his usual 90 min for one of the top clubs in the world.

I just checked the last couple of Canadians Abroad threads, and his activity is mentioned in both. That said, it's possible some might take him for granted. 

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, maccaliam said:

They could also see him as Marcelo-style “defender”. If so, he would certainly get his opportunities to attack. 

That’s what I see for sure.  

[GasPed]

3 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Soild 90 mins today for Davies in Bayern's big 0-4 away win vs Dortmund. There's no doubt Tuchel wants Davies to play more defensively than he did under Flick & Nageslmann. Perhaps its impacted his play. No doubt he is better going forward.

Yes - there's zero doubt Tuchel prefers him to stay back (vs. Nagelsmann who basically wanted him to play like another winger).  And I personally think this would almost be enough to make him move to Madrid.  He likes going forward, he's good at going forward, and he wants to get better at going forward.

[clamlinguine]

14 hours ago, VinceA said:

Davies getting some negative comments in this thread over what his actual level as a player is.

 

 

 

^ This one's a bit more hopeful

 

Seems like Bayern fans at this point are like meh whatever let him go.

 

Yeah...Real Madrid wants him because they believe this trash. lmao

[gigi riva]

4 hours ago, GasPed said:

Yes - there's zero doubt Tuchel prefers him to stay back (vs. Nagelsmann who basically wanted him to play like another winger).  And I personally think this would almost be enough to make him move to Madrid.  He likes going forward, he's good at going forward, and he wants to get better at going forward.

If he goes to Real Madrid I think Real will develop him into another Marcelo 

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, kacbru said:

It us interesting that Davies rarely features in those weekly Canadians abroad updates - we just take it for granted that he goes his usual 90 min for one of the top clubs in the world.

90 min today in 4-0 win over Dortmund.  Lots of touches, but no Gs, As, tackles, interceptions, blocks, crosses, corners, shots.

He is clearly fulfilling his (limited by design) role at Bayern, but I'm not convinced its good for CMNT.  I don't watch him very much, but it doesn't feel like he is still developing.  I'm not sure moving to RM would be any better.

At RM his tactical role would be far more clearly defined. He couldn't get away with his sloppy passing. Apart from that, which could be a lot, I'd agree with you.

[Kadenge]

I've watched Bayern & Davies a lot since his move there. Bayern have never been great on defence but were better in his first 2 seasons there than at present. No veteran leader/presence at the back like Alaba and Kimmich seems less influential now. If it wasn't for their sizzling hot forwards, Sane is having a career yr, Coman injury free and Kane doing his stuff, Bayern would be in trouble.  Davies has looked very tentative during his time under Tuchel, who is very volatile. I don't think it's a good fit for him. It's clear from his body language that he's not comfortable. 

[TOcanadafan]

Bayern has been a circus/ shit-show for most of the last 2 years and I agree that Tuchel is not an ideal coach for a unicorn like Davies.  It’s a shame Nagelsmann got the boot, because I feel he would have really progressed Davies as a player.  I think a change of scenery might be the best thing for Phonzie at this point.